Is handling on all big-block Vettes sub-par?
04-10-2019, 06:03 PM
#21
Race Director
Anyone bragging about BBC power has never been around 427 through 454 so called small blocks.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
04-10-2019, 07:04 PM
#22
Race Director
Counterpoint!
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
04-10-2019, 10:40 PM
#23
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Anyone bragging about BBC power has never been around 427 through 454 so called small blocks.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
And I agree that a lighter weight assembly changes RPM quicker. That's noticeable in the pits. But once you throw 3000 pounds of car behind that assembly the higher efficiency of that setup gets reduced substantially. But I do agree with reducing weight wherever you can find it.
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04-11-2019, 01:17 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Anyone bragging about BBC power has never been around 427 through 454 so called small blocks.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
A cubic inch is a ci. You can argue the merits of bore VS stroke ratios all day long. But you can't argue that lighter weight reciprocating assemblies ability to change rpm faster.
My 427 sbc can take on the all most all N/A of the up to 454 BBC's that I have ever come up against. Even in mph at one mile airport runway events.
04-11-2019, 10:05 AM
#25
Team Owner
Counterpoint!
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
04-12-2019, 06:50 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
Not being a wiseguy....literal answer...BOAT MFGs....Was on a 36' yacht with TWIN 454 cast iron lumps. Over 1200 lbs worth!
UnkaHal
UnkaHal
04-12-2019, 10:55 PM
#28
Drifting
This is an interesting question about comparing 50 year old suspension technology. My 68 convert with aluminum head NOM 454, stiffer front springs, better tires and larger front and rear sway bars handles as well as my sister-in-law's stock 72 convert with the 350 motor. Most people will not notice much difference, except the bb has a lot more torque and feels faster. Newer technology: I have a 93 twin turbo RX-7 with a professionally built race engine and over $70k in suspension modification and weight reduction features that leaves both the small block and big block cars in the dust. The C7 Vettes also demonstrate that handling is vastly improved by experience gained in the last 50 years.
04-13-2019, 12:55 AM
#29
Race Director
It always amazes me that when one of these small block vs big block threads begin, all the guys with small blocks, do nothing but knock, bad mouth and criticize the big blocks.
But it's never the other way around.
Why is that? Really?
But it's never the other way around.
Why is that? Really?
04-13-2019, 01:06 AM
#31
Race Director
04-13-2019, 10:39 AM
#33
Race Director
04-13-2019, 11:13 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
Counterpoint!
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
I was Zora's concierge for a week...We talked BB's. and dozens of other Vette topics ALONE. Truth...HE HATED THEM... so I'm calling BS! ILL handling, overheating, hard to work on, and felt he was FORCED into the BB's by the market. You all keep mentioning Aluminum this and Aluminum that...so Aluminum headed and Blocked big blocks were what 5% of what Chevy Produced??? What about the Cast iron ones? The quote I remember is "Ze hantle like a rock on a string".
Sorry...I was there. (however I'd sure like to see that article!) Mclellan was much more of a political animal than Zora....this smells of 'politician speak'.
Nowadays they CAN BE MADE to handle...technology has moved on.
Unkahal
I'M not a 'hater', just not a gushing fanboy either. What Zora Really liked was LT-1's.
BTW-The weight distribution for the BBC C3 is Front:52-54%:Rear 46-48%, mostly Front 54%:46% rear...lots of mass biased to the front AND a high center of gravity versus the SBC C3. Not just the weight.........
Last edited by jb78L-82; 04-13-2019 at 11:18 AM.
04-13-2019, 11:30 AM
#35
Burning Brakes
I'm very surprised at the comments coming from knowledgeable posters that there is no difference in handling in a stock SB and BB! Or am I reading the comments wrong?
I had a very original stock 71 SB and then went on to buy a 69 BB (all iron) with Steeroids R&P.
The first time I drove the 69 I was amazed at how nose heavy it felt.
Just driving around in town there was a huge difference in how it felt in the turns. The BB felt like it wanted to continue driving in a straight line when I turned the wheel, to the point where it got me worried.
I realize that I'm comparing a 71 SB to a 69 BB, and that the 69 has Steeroids, but if Steerroids is that much worse than the stock setup, then why would people "upgrade" to Steeroids?
I'm not trying to bash the big block, in fact I eventually sold the SB and kept the BB.
/Karsten
I had a very original stock 71 SB and then went on to buy a 69 BB (all iron) with Steeroids R&P.
The first time I drove the 69 I was amazed at how nose heavy it felt.
Just driving around in town there was a huge difference in how it felt in the turns. The BB felt like it wanted to continue driving in a straight line when I turned the wheel, to the point where it got me worried.
I realize that I'm comparing a 71 SB to a 69 BB, and that the 69 has Steeroids, but if Steerroids is that much worse than the stock setup, then why would people "upgrade" to Steeroids?
I'm not trying to bash the big block, in fact I eventually sold the SB and kept the BB.
/Karsten
Last edited by Danish Shark; 04-13-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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cardo0 (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 12:46 PM
#36
ya im sure crusader still does the 454 made im in 70s on cabin cruisers. But a cabin cruiser needs to be kept at very low revs try to get some gallons per hour saving cost. Next door niegbor bought a new Break Out Another Thousand, 25 ft would do 75 on the water had 496 bbc. Back in 70s. Almost everyone did 350 sbc tbe big one. Today its 383 on up. Bbc has also moved on in size in fact the amount of cube difference you can do today has widened in favor of the bbc. Ya today people buy an aftermarket block they build a 406 to 434 pretty common. But the guy that buys the aftermarket bbc block has the choice easy as pie to do 540, 555 , 572, 585. So unless your stuck in the past a 396/427/454 is a restorers engine, nobody else builds them. I would say unless your like gkull with lots of road racing experence that 427 hotrod has it correct 99 percent of people are not going to be able or even have the nads to push the car to its outer limits to worry 1 way or the other of 100lbs more up front. 50/50 weight distribution was nice back in the stone age. It was 1962 last time a front engine sports car won an all out race, been rear engine ever since. Finally in 2020 chevy has got off its worthless hiney and built a real car in the C8. To late that i can afford one.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-13-2019 at 01:20 PM.
04-13-2019, 01:35 PM
#37
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Havent owned a BB car in a long time but its not THAT bad...you feel it a little so what. Its totally worth it.
There are some nice heads out for bigger BB no reason not to go big! 4-500cfm can make serious beans.
There are some nice heads out for bigger BB no reason not to go big! 4-500cfm can make serious beans.
04-13-2019, 03:59 PM
#38
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ya im sure crusader still does the 454 made im in 70s on cabin cruisers. But a cabin cruiser needs to be kept at very low revs try to get some gallons per hour saving cost. Next door niegbor bought a new Break Out Another Thousand, 25 ft would do 75 on the water had 496 bbc. Back in 70s. Almost everyone did 350 sbc tbe big one. Today its 383 on up. Bbc has also moved on in size in fact the amount of cube difference you can do today has widened in favor of the bbc. Ya today people buy an aftermarket block they build a 406 to 434 pretty common. But the guy that buys the aftermarket bbc block has the choice easy as pie to do 540, 555 , 572, 585. So unless your stuck in the past a 396/427/454 is a restorers engine, nobody else builds them. I would say unless your like gkull with lots of road racing experence that 427 hotrod has it correct 99 percent of people are not going to be able or even have the nads to push the car to its outer limits to worry 1 way or the other of 100lbs more up front. 50/50 weight distribution was nice back in the stone age. It was 1962 last time a front engine sports car won an all out race, been rear engine ever since. Finally in 2020 chevy has got off its worthless hiney and built a real car in the C8. To late that i can afford one.
I stick with 427s in my car for a couple reasons. The "short" stroke keeps the piston speed down in case the engine gets a bit over revved on the track. Secondly, on a road course (or any track, to be honest), I see no sport or engineering challenge in running an engine that is 100-250 cubic inches bigger than the other guys.
Not a production car, but a front engined Ford GTP car won its debut race in 1983. Still a few years back, but later than 1962.
04-13-2019, 04:12 PM
#39
Nonsense.
I stick with 427s in my car for a couple reasons. The "short" stroke keeps the piston speed down in case the engine gets a bit over revved on the track. Secondly, on a road course (or any track, to be honest), I see no sport or engineering challenge in running an engine that is 100-250 cubic inches bigger than the other guys.
Not a production car, but a front engined Ford GTP car won its debut race in 1983. Still a few years back, but later than 1962.
I stick with 427s in my car for a couple reasons. The "short" stroke keeps the piston speed down in case the engine gets a bit over revved on the track. Secondly, on a road course (or any track, to be honest), I see no sport or engineering challenge in running an engine that is 100-250 cubic inches bigger than the other guys.
Not a production car, but a front engined Ford GTP car won its debut race in 1983. Still a few years back, but later than 1962.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 04-13-2019 at 04:32 PM.
04-13-2019, 07:09 PM
#40
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the car won in its class not the fastest thing done. 1962 ferrari was the last front engine car to win all out competition never been even anyone build another 1 because it has zero chance. Ya i like 302/ 327, im 1 in 100 guys that would build 1 instead of 350 on up. There are lots of front engine cars winning in there class but there just in the way when the mid engine car blows by it like it was sitting in a parking lot. Ya im the guy that would use a 3.76 stroke in a 4.600 aftermarket block, but then again im that 1 in 100 guy that would do it. 585 bbc just the beginning 632 not a problem 815 cubes no problem have been built to 1002 cubic inch. Just a matter how flush is your wallet. Ill say it again the gap between a sbc and a bbc is far worse today then it was 45 years ago.