Cali,68,L-79

You ever notice every muscle/ classic car you see is the top of the line model? Today I saw a very nice 69 Chevelle for sale at the North Island Base used car lot. And I thought back and I can't tell you if I have ever seen a regular Chevelle without the SS stickers on it. This may have been the real deal or at least a well done copy of one however without my VIN book it was a mute point. I thought how confusing it must be for newbies out there to get a fair shake in any classic car sale. I find it rather amusing and at the same time understand if it is your car then you have all rights to modify it how and when you choose. I wonder how many people out there know their 69 SS Camero was actually a 6 cylinder base model? Then again if they enjoy it who cares? So what's my point anyway? :crazy:


[Modified by Cali,77,L-82, 1:20 PM 12/23/2002]

flood

I know. Imagine all the kids that drive type R's and don't even know they didn't ever make one with their model...lol :lol: :lol:

But in all honesty I know exactly what your talking about. SS badges appear on every muscle car now-a-days. You really have to know what your looking at. Just have to research what your buying

Cali,68,L-79

Yeah I saw a 1998-2001 Maxima whith Rst emblems glued next to the Maxima sticker. worst part the letters looked like something you get from Home Depot for your mailbox or House cuase they had the little holes for the nails that nail them to your door.

:rolleyes:

page62

We've had that happen right here to forum members. Thought they had an L82 until we checked the VIN. I ended up being the "bad news" guy in one case... :nonod:

Cali,68,L-79

I take it he already purchased the Vette by then.

:nonod:

MotorHead

Don't forget the SS etc. models were the most desirable to own, fix up, restore and hold on to than the base model of that particular car, therefore 30 years later you will probably expect these models to still be around while the run of the mill stock/base models have been in the bone yard for years :D

Schmucker

Yeah, it is especially bad with the SS cars. Sometimes you see an RS or Z28 Camaro, but often they are just SS cars. I've been to small shows and I swear, every Chevy there was an SS. Myself, I'm glad to own a common L48 auto. That way I don't feel bad about cutting it up tearing it apart (granted I'm keeping all the parts, just in case...).

79 Midnight Blue L82

One of my first true hi-performance cars was a 1969 Nova SS396. I did a lot of street racing back then and actually went to the other extreme with the numbers on my car - I swapped the 396 emblems for 350 emblems :lol: Funny how things come and go, but, in the end it is still the same basic game being played out.

fauxrs

Cali - you are so right. I have a friend with a base - 350 2bbl 71 camaro with SS tags all over it. Frankly I dont mind so much (provided he doesnt actually sell it as an SS).

For all intents and purposes, that whole problem is the source of my Screenname. At the same time as he had his "SS" I was working on my 72 camaro, (also a base model) I had all the sheetmetal and was going to convert it over to a RS model. The only difference was I had made a vinyl tag that went behind the SS badge on the fender that read "Faux" - hence my moniker "FauxRS"

It just stuck - wish I had pictures of the badge on my computer - it looked sweet - Hugger orange 72, white Z-28 runway stripes - short spoiler in back - Front spoiler and the Black "Faux" behind the Chrome RS badge.

I sold that car to get this vette - never regretted that.....


[Modified by fauxrs, 1:54 PM 12/23/2002]

Cali,68,L-79

"I'll allow it"
All right FAUXRS but no L-88 plates on the Vette please.

:jester

Ryan77

:iagree: , but I'm sure there also a lot of fakes out there, but as long as they don't try to sell to someone as being an original SS, etc. then I don't mind. It's also a lot more fun to blow away the cars that are fakes, yet have Z28, SS, etc all over them, just like the ricers with all their sticker, it don't mean sh** unless it's under the hood :D





[Modified by Ryan77, 6:07 PM 12/23/2002]

JRD77VET

But what happen when "Jim" sells the car to "Joe". "Joe" doesn't care ( and didn't pay the premium) for the SS. "Joe" sells the car to "Steve" for a fair price for a fake,but "Steve" thinks that he's got an original SS car.

"Steve" puts his original SS car for sale and "Tim" comes from two states away and buys the car. "Steve" never got the correct info when he purchased it but "Tim" was the one who really got taken.

That's the problem I have with fake badges. It may have started out with the whole truth but gets "forgotten" along the way.


So, you wanna buy my '77 L-88? It's really rare :jester

It's blue printed too :yesnod: I have the blueprints hanging on the wall :lol:

:seeya

vettfixr

My L-48 strikes fear in the hearts of Hyundai owners. :lol: :lol: :lol: :crazy:

Vetterodder

I've noticed the same thing. Some grandmother's LeMans is now a GTO, Cutlasses are now 442's, base Plymouths are now Road Runners, etc.. Besides the obvious reasons for owners to clone the most desirable versions (resale value and because they don't want to pay for the real thing), the availablity of aftermarket parts is probably a major factor also. In most cases, trim and interior pieces are reproduced in volume for the "popular" models due to demand but not so for the base models. Impala, GTO, etc., trim pieces are readily avaible but much less so if you're restoring a Biscayne of LeMans.

Schmucker

Kinda how they used to have a kit to remove the split window in the '63 because it obstructed your view so much. Then they started selling kits to put the split window in a '64 and whathaveyou.

'79ProwlerOrange

thats the one reason i check the vin. if its a car i am going to mod, i could care less.

PROSOUTH

Is this an NCRS thread?

I have always wondered why it mattered about CLONES? When GM made a Nova body it was a Nova Body and untill it came to the point in the line where it recieved an SS Emblem.............. Wow a $2 emblem blessed this body for life!.

Yes I agree about the deception of buyers for monetary reasons, but who doesn't have to FAKE somethng on a 30 year old car to make it appear correct even if it is a Real SS body. Just because you can take your little black book and look at the birth regeister doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Is it still an SS if all that was left of the original car was the Hull and its special place in the register? Is it OK to restore a scrap SS car with all of the available "Restoration Parts" and deny a perfect body that Granny has had in the garage all of these years protected and pampered from mistreatment the same thing ?

I have a friend who has the "Numbers Virus" real bad and I just don't understand it. If it ain't the right number he can't stand it. He wants to change numbers or work on a piece of junk subframe because it has that special number on it instead of using a perfect donar he has laying beside the shop. It's not like this is a special show car, its a pleasure car to drive on the street!

I ask you, If you see a '69 Big Block Hooded Corvette at the red light that is super looking do you think to yourself

A: That's a great looking car!

B: I bet that car has the wrong Big Block motor, it was / is a small block car, I bet the alternator number is wrong, or the water pump is from Auto Zone, probably wasn't originally black or whatever . I look at the car and if it's nice, then it's a nice car to me.

If you are a Collector then by all means aquire what you wish and document it to the 9th degree. Do you guys really make those little stickers on the springs?

If you are one of us that just enjoys our car instead of having to put it in one of those plastic bags and can't drive it or modifiy it or personalize it in anyway light'en up! let's take it apart and see what we can improve or change for the better! JIM:smash:

fauxrs

You make some good point, but I think missed the point of the thread. This was not about aftermarket parts to make your SS good again, this was about buying that Nova with the straight 6 - putting in a big block, placing SS396 tags on it and THEN selling it as if it were a SS396.

I'm sure you would be quite miffed if you purchased said vehicle thinking you were getting the original McCoy when in fact it turned out you had a modded 6 cylinder car which will not fetch the same cash when sold.

I'm sure noone has any problem with restoring a car to its original glory with resto parts, its the fact that 125% of all the LT-1's made are alive today. 250% of all the 69 Z-28's are still on the road, and something like 3-400% of all the SS cars ever made are still around. (ok maybe not that many :lol: )

BTW, when I see the car in question, I think - what a cool looking car, up until I decide to buy it, then I want to know is it the real thing, if its not an original big block car then it shouldnt fetch the price of an original. If I pay a small premium for the new big block - thats OK (maybe depending on the quality of the work) but if the seller is saying Original 427 tripower car, just needs manifold, then he better be right.

Cali,68,L-79

I think FAUXRS hit it on the head however to specify my position. Look at my homepage, there is not much left of the car that is stock, and if it was who cares a "all stock 77 L-82, big deal. Now if I had a real nice Vette say a L-88, LT-1 then maybe. I feel the same IRT NCRS weenies.
Sample NCRS conversation
"Oh my God Sam your shock absorbers are not painted the exact cast grey as per GM INST. 2060.4 paragraph 2 line 6. Clearly you have %0.025 more callast grey pigment then you should! Don't ever talk to me again!"
No I can't relate to that. I just don't like young guys new to the auto hobby getting ripped off buying a 17K Camaro SS that is really a 7K base model and their stuck with it.

BTW Merry Christmas to all, and God Bless us all. Have a safe one.

David


[Modified by Cali,77,L-82, 1:24 PM 12/24/2002]

PROSOUTH

Is this an NCRS thread? No Offense, just trying to make a point. There is room for everyone, and that was the point I was trying to make.

I have always wondered why it mattered about CLONES? When GM made a Nova body it was a Nova Body and untill it came to the point in the line where it recieved an SS Emblem.............. Wow a $2 emblem blessed this body for life!.

I still stand by this statement, if you are not out to decieve someone in a sale, Yes I agree about the deception of buyers for monetary reasons, But if you are a Collector and you have to have that bonafide SS take your black book with you and look at the birth regeister and see if it is an SS, even if all that was left of the original car was the Hull. I guess it still has a special place on the register.

If you are a Collector then by all means aquire what you wish and document it to the 9th degree. :D

If I had the desire to have a Collectable Car for investment or self gratification I would have it disected down to the oil plug to verify its authenticity. See I agree with you.

You make some good point, but I think missed the point of the thread. This was not about aftermarket parts to make your SS good again, this was about buying that Nova with the straight 6 - putting in a big block, placing SS396 tags on it and THEN selling it as if it were a SS396.

I thought I covered that aspect. I do not condone that practice. I also pointed out that this sounded like a NCRS thread because it was another "us and them" topic.

I'm sure you would be quite miffed if you purchased said vehicle thinking you were getting the original McCoy when in fact it turned out you had a modded 6 cylinder car which will not fetch the same cash when sold.

I think you missed my point about this thread, I agree with you on the "Genuine Authentic SS by Deception my point is that an original six cylinder Nova with SS emblems and a nice SS repo interior and emblems without that spring sticker is a nice car and should be respected as well as a junkyard refugee that has that birth register to claim.

We are on the same page, It's just that I continue to hear " I have one of 250 '71 LT1 4sp w/AC cars. Yet it's far from being nice or even close to being original must less NCRS .Then there being a little "I'm better than you attitude in there with it.

I'm sure no one has any problem with restoring a car to its original glory with resto parts, its the fact that 125% of all the LT-1's made are alive today. 250% of all the 69 Z-28's are still on the road, and something like 3-400% of all the SS cars ever made are still around. (ok maybe not that many )

See the above. This is what I was talking about. How many of those "250% of all the 69 Z-28's are still on the road claimed to be original X177 cars? We seem to be guilty of attributing deception to everyone that wanted a Z/28 and couldn't afford one and put a set of emblems on. I know kids today who don't even know what a Camaro is. They think they are all Z/28's. Even if everyone could afford to buy a real '69 Z/28, there would not be enough to go around would there?

I am finishing up a '78 350 El Camino that is a numbers matching car except for belts, hoses, water pump and Alt. It was owned by a little old man that even had a camper top one it. The body was perfect. I had it painted a diferent color but here is the bad part, I'm putting SS emblems on it. Now we know why I reponded to this thread, I confess, I'm guilty, I guess the NERS National ElCamino Restorers Society will be here to get me now......... :lol:

The only difference in my El Camino and the SS ? 3 decals and an SS about 1/2" tall on the dash pad. :rolleyes:

Don't take any of this personel, It is only my opinion on cars in general. I do not believe in fraud and with this I totally agree with you, but a set of SS or Z emblems on a Camaro or a big block hood on a Corvette does not make a case for fraud to me.

I have several guns, my guns are all tools to me. I use them in my work and I use others to hunt with. None of my guns are stock as issued. Even in guns there are collectors that have to have a certain number or finish and they to have decievers in the hobby.

I'm just one that never worried about numbers,that is unless you want to buy a part that I have that may be rare for someones project collector. Then I want market value for it.

Merry Christmas guys, JIM :iagree: OK?