t316rudy

I have a 93 automatic and the car was riding find last Monday. I stopped at a friend's house and when I came out 30 minutes later, the car would not start. It seemed like the battery was weak, so I had another friend stop by with a charger and we had no luck. It seemed like the battery would not take a charge.

The friend that brought the charger is a heavy equipment mechanic and he tried to help me out. First we tried a new battery. The car would simply click really loud and all of the power would go out until I let go of the key. Then it started clicking really loudly a lot of times in a row. We figured it was the starter. We had my starter rebuilt.

We tried it and the same single and multiple click problem continued. We figured it might be a bad rebuild, so I bought a new starter. We installed it today and the same thing happened. My friend thought that the engine might have seized, but he tested it and was able to turn it manually. I'm stumped, what should I try next?

Frizlefrak

Ground cable on the engine block is loose or corroded.

Remove and bench test your starter(s) with a remote start switch. This is what happens when you throw parts at a problem instead of troubleshooting it.

t316rudy

Hell, I agree with you completely. I am a novice when it comes to mechanics, but I found it strange that we were changing parts based on a sound. I only went with what my friend said because he said he knew what he was doing. I am just trying to figure out what to try and how to move forward before I give up and call another mechanic to check it out. Tomorrow I will check the ground wire. Besides this, is there anything else I should check. Thanks for your help.

Frizlefrak

The starting circuit is quite simple. A starter motor and solenoid, a battery, two cables, and a switch in the column that sends a 12V signal to the solenoid. You're getting clicking, which elimates VATS as a symptom. Use a voltmeter and confirm a full 12V at the solenoid.

Pull the starter back off. Visually inspect the teeth on the gear and the ring on the flywheel/flexplate and ensure it isn't jammed. Set the starter on the bench, run 12V to it with jumper cables, and use a remote starter switch or screwdriver between the terminals to spin it over. If it spins over on the bench and not in the car, you have a voltage delivery issue.

Check all cables, remount the starter and try it with the remote switch. If it spins over the engine now, you have an issue with your ignition switch and/or associated wiring.

Battery and cables are easy to eliminate from the equation. Battery must be 100% charged (preferably with a smart charger) and cables 100% corrosion free and tight. Battery to solenoid, and battery to engine block.

This should be a very easy fix unless you've got a chunk missing from your ring on the flywheel.

t316rudy

Thank you for all of your help. I will try everything out and re-post by Saturday.

Frizlefrak

Let us know what you find out.

Dans 85

Putting a jumper cable between your negative battery post and a good ground on the engine is an easy test to verify if the ground side of the battery is bad.

If your problem persists I'd look very close at the positive cable. Check under the red battery boot for hidden corrosion.

You really should be using a voltmeter to trace this problem. Doing it any other way will just waste time and money. While I think it may be the pos cable that's just a guess too, the meter will tell the real story.

Regards,

NSC5

Most of the time the bad connection will be at the battery terminal connection but it can be a problem in the cable or the ground as others have mentioned. The easiest way to identify a bad connection at the battery or main ground is with a volt meter. Turn on the headlights to put a decent load on the battery and then start by placing one meter probe directly on the actual battery terminal and the other on the cable connector, a poor connection (high resistance) will cause a voltage drop across the connector itself and thus a reading on the meter. Unless using an auto range set meter, choose the 15 VDC range or the lowest range that will safely read at least 15 volts to avoid test equipment damage). With a good connection the reading should be virtually zero. You can use this same basic method, one meter probe on each side of the suspected bad connection, to test the rest of the system.

A DVM/DMM is handiest because you don't have to worry about polarity, with an analog VOM you will need to have the probes oriented properly or the meter will try to read downscale instead of up.

This same method can be used across a cable itself to measure drop to identify a problem with a degraded cable (broken strands, poor connector). If the main cables, connections, and grounds are OK you can then use the same method to determine the point of voltage drop in the starter motor circuit but of course you will need a helper to engage the starter and make sure you and your test leads are well clear of moving parts in case the engine does start.

This is much easier than trying to directly measure the resistance of one of these high current capable connections. I have a Simpson meter adapter which provides a 0.1 ohm full scale range but the typical meter is useless for directly measuring the resistance of these connections which must be of extremely low resistance. Even .02 ohms of resistance at a 300 amp starter draw results in a 6 volt drop.

jdogg69

Ck your fluid levels (oil, coolent) Could be hydrolock. Also in the old days you could bypass your starter solenoid with a screwdriver. Take the starter you pulled in to Auto Zone or Advance Auto and have them test it.
I take it your saying the engine won't turn over?
If it is a stick you could try to push or tow it and drop the clutch to start.
Could even pull some or all plugs and see if it will turn over.
Prob. a ground but I would ck everything to be sure.

jdogg69

Wouldn't hurt to have your "good" battery checked out by the parts store also.
If you know your battery and starter are good and the engine is not hydrolocked that pretty much leaves connections. Everything you take off sand or scrape untill shiny then re-connect. Oh yeah don't forget to ck. fuses.
PS get the best engine repair person you know to help you.

93Rubie

I've ran into this. Used jumper cable to verify, got it to start. Cleaned all grounds and it was ok, after that.

vettrious

Been at mine for about a month now. Replaced alternator, battery, starter and cables and starter enable relay after not finding a drain from any of the obvious places that I've also read about in the forums. I'm the original owner of an 86 convertible 4 speed that was driven every day until about five years ago...but still drive it fairly regularly and need it now since my other vehicle needs front axle shaft replacement All my connections are clean and tight, and last week when the no start, just click occurred the charger quick start worked fine, but now nothing changes the click only mode. I'm getting 12 v at the starter and it's a new mini. I'm pretty baffled.

joe paco

you might want to start your own thread, vettrious, since the years are so different.

12v at solenoid terminal during start mode should engage the bendix, or starter gear, moving it fully into the flywheel gear.

if it does, but starter does nor turn, starter is faulty.

if gear does not engage flywheel, jump a wire from the battery lug on starter to solenoid terminal for a second or so. if starter turns, solenoid is faulty -or the connection. be sure the terminal on end of purple wire does not have high resistance.

starter should be grounded thru the block via the bolts, unless someone painted the block. it has happened -even at the factory!

*** should have said "grounded by the housing to block". bolts are ground paths but are "incidental grounding."-

red89c4

bad starter solenoid in both cases above.

Dans 85

Most of the time things will give normal readings unloaded making you 'think' the cable is not the problem.

For the OP and secondary OP: You guys need to test the voltage at the S terminal and the B+ terminal (at the starter) under load while turning key to start. This will work for both cases. If you have a known good starter, near battery reading at these terminals, the ground jumper I mentioned if needed, and despite only a couple of very slim scant possibilities, it really should fire right up at this point.

Just as a FYI, corrosion once started is hard to fully remove. If any terminal is or was corroded or previously cleaned a number of times it is only a matter of time before corrosion 'wicks' itself down the cable and the cable itself is bad. You wont see this but once removed if you were to slice the insulation open you'd see the corrosion inside.

vettrious

Thanks guys, just found out today that it was my clutch safety switch bad way up at the top of the pedal. Bypassed it with a jumper since the part is no longer available...easy anyway.

t316rudy

I tried all of the tests I could on the starter and everything was fine. I decided to check on the chance of a hydrolock and found that my oil was thin and it smelled like fuel. I drained the oil and there is a large amount of fuel. I have done some research and from what I read I believe it is a bad fuel injector. I'm going to pull the spark plugs and try and crank to see if I get any spillage. I'm also going to try and identify which injectors are causing the problem. Any ideas on how to check the injectors and what I should try out? I also read about rebuilding the injectors. Should I try and find someone to rebuild them or try and do it myself? Would I be better off buying new ones?

Besides the injectors, could anything else be causing this issue with the fuel in the oil?

ckwhite

As mentioned above, corrosion at the battery terminals, in the cables, or in the main power-wire bus (just behind the battery on my '89) can be the simplest cause of all kinds of electrical/starting/charging problems. That's the best place to start. When you hear hoofbeats, don't go looking for zebras.

Fuel in the oil sounds like a whole different problem. Replacing injectors is a major job (well, it would be for me) and pricey if you have a mechanic do it. You'll want to be pretty sure that's the problem before you throw a lot of bucks at it.

jdogg69

Pull fuel fuses ASAP, elevate front of car, undo gas cap need to stop fuel flow ASAP. Drain oil gas mixture and refill with new oil. I think the seals can blowout on a injector and let gas collect in the intake?
Now take off those things on engine that say corvette on them, you will now see your injectors. Buy or borrow a mutimeter, unplug each injector one at a time and ck. resistance shoud be at least 11-12 ohms, higher is better. All should read within in 1ohm to each other. If you find 7 read 12 and 1 reads 5 thats the bad one.
I had one test low but I bought a set of 8 from FIC (Bosch 3). Now if you want to stay with the stock Mutecks (sp sorry). I can give you one for shipping cost.
PM if needed.

Frizlefrak

If you have an injector leaking, it will be obvious which one. If so, send the set off to FIC for a rebuild. Respected forum vendor.