C4Finally

I was beginning to think I had a VATS issue. My 86 (manual) was occasionally not cranking and not even clicking when attempting to start after driving for a while. Always restarted perfectly after sitting for a hour or maybe a bit more...would never restart after a few minutes.

Was doing some preliminary VATS investigation when the engine was cold (it has ALWAYS started when cold), and found out that it will start perfectly with the resistor on the key covered with tape, or even with the orange VATS wire under the column disconnected...it appears the previous owner may have already bypassed VATS?

Since it starts without the wire connected or with the resistor covered, does this mean that my "no crank" problem is NOT VATS related? It seems to me like a logical conclusion that VATS is not a factor in my current problem?

That being said...could anyone give me a starting point for a possible fix with VATS out of the equation? Starter, solenoid, etc? Any and all help and suggestions greatly appreciated!

Midnight 85

Does the car have headers? Do they run real close to the starter? If they do the heat is getting to the solenoid. A new solenoid will not help. If this is the case, post back & let us know so we can give some suggestions.

C4Finally

No headers...all stock except for the mufflers.

Seems to be getting progressively worse. Used to happen rarely, now happens with alarming regularity. Is something getting hot and then not working until it cools off, you think?

The car has a perfect record of starting when cold...only after driving a while is it an issue.

Midnight 85

Does the starter ever turn over real slow when it is getting warmed up or does it just refuse to work all of a sudden? It sounds like the starter is worn out and is beginning to show a lot of internal resistance, (drag) I think I would pull the starter off & take it to Autozone or O'Reillys or most any parts store & have the starter checked out. Also, check to see if there is an exhaust leak that is directing hot exhaust directly on to the starter housing. It sure sounds like something is heating up the starter.

markKlein

If it tries to turn overr or clicks at all it is not the VATS. Have you checked all the connections?

lt4obsesses

Old starters can get really persnickity when they get hot. Sometimes, just the heat from the motor alone will cause this. I once had an old Monte Carlo that I had to carry a rubber mallet around to hit the starter when it did this. (This was in my teenage years, when the coice was starter or beer).

C4Finally

Thanks guys!

The starter does not ever seem slow sluggish. It either works perfectly, or not at all...no clicks or anything...that is why I was thinking VATS.

When it does happen, it is not the short VATS reset time before it starts again, I have to wait at least an hour or more.

But isn't VATS off the table since it will start with the pellet covered and the orange wire disconnected when cold????

I will check the connections...that would be cool if it was something that simple!

lt4obsesses

What has me thinking starter, is the fact that this only happens when the engine is warm. If it were a VATS connection, it would at best be intermittant, and would happen hot or cold. However, one of the beginning indicators of a starter solinoid going out is to quit functioning properly when hot. The starter is pretty easy to pull, and as has been said, you can take it any auto parts store to have it checked.

Midnight 85

Exactly, just because it is okay when cold does not mean a single thing. If it is worn out or is getting too hot will NOT show up until it is hot. Forget VATS, you already know it isn't a player.
Two bolts, two wire connections and a bit of cussing and it's out, take it & get it checked.

C4Finally

Thanks guys...I'll pull the starter.

Seems like everything I've ever done to this car involves a bit of cussing!

lt4obsesses

That's half the fun

mrmtrtrnd

I know this doesn't help with the starter problem but sure is funny and reminds me of the old days.

C4Finally

Well...you got to remember...the car is from the old days.

It has probably aged better than I have in the last 26 years!

lt4obsesses

lol...I know what you mean. Sometimes, now, need a rubber mallet on the night stand to get myself going in the morning.

jhammons01

So three weeks ago, my Clutch Master went out. Well, I got that changed and then it wouldn't start...

I spent a day or so trying to trouble shoot the Clutch depressed switch....finally, I pulled the starter and took it to have it tested.....well it tested fine. But I wasn't putting that nasty thing back in when a rebuilt was $45......

I went home dejected with my rebuilt starter thinking that I had more trouble shooting to do.....

I put the starter in and LO! it worked!

See, when I pulled the old one, it was heavier than anticipated and I let it hit the floor......and old trick with Delco starters is if it doesn't crank, get under there and hit with a hammer, total shade tree I know, but it works, you can't argue with success. So, when I dropped it, I jarred it enough for it to work at the parts store.

My new rebuilt is so much nicer, I never realized that the old starter had been dragging since I have owned the car in 2006. The new one spins the motor way faster.....I just didn't have a frame of reference. Now I do.....

Pull your starter....it's not easy by any means but for $45 it is a cheap way to eliminate it a possibility. Every other electrical motor or gadget on my car has failed, why not the starter???

Midnight 85

I had an experience back in my drag racing days. I was having a particular good day having already went several rounds of competition and I was in the money. I had noticed all day that the starter was sluggish but even tho it would crank slow the engine always caught & fired up. As I was getting ready to pull up for my next run I saw I was going to be paired up against an old rival I had never ran against before. You know the rest of the story, my car would not fire and he was headed for the burnout box. He did his burnout while I was trying desperately to get mine going. Just as they made him pull to the line, mine caught but it was too late and he made an easy solo. I used a hammer on the starter that day too,,,,, once it was out of the car & laying on the ground.

GREGGPENN

IIRC, there may be merit in upgrading to the newer starter. Mostly because of the size. It's smaller. Better too?

Also....FYI
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/

1bdvet

It's not vats system, I had the same problem till they replaced my starter assembly, after that never had problem again. I new people like you with the same problem, and fixed with new starter.

Good luck....

Midnight 85

Just wondering what you have found.

C4Finally

All things point to the starter. My mechanic is going to try and get me in later this week or early next week...I don't have a good way to get under the low slung beastie here in my crammed full garage or gravel driveway.

It will be good to have her reliable again!