lt14x4

I'm looking to install a remote water pump on my 94 LT1 and have (for the most part) figured out the flow direction for the routing of the hoses etc.

Will be installing a remote thermostat and in doing some research, the instructions suggest "leaving the internal OEM by-pass passages/hoses in place to circulate the coolant inside the engine while the thermostat is NOT open".

This got me thinking...

Can anyone explain how this occurs with the OEM pump installed on the block. Its one of those things one never thinks about until making a major modification. When the thermostat is closed, how does the water pump circulate coolant within the engine block between the 2 sets of upper holes (cooled coolant from the radiator) and the 2 sets of lower holes (warmed coolant from the engine). Is there some kind of internal passage within the LT1 water pump?

In a remote set up, the 2 upper holes in the block would be joined via a "Y" connector for cooled coolant coming from the water pump (outlet), and the 2 lower holes in the block joined by a "Y" connector (where I intend to install the remote thermostat inline between the block and the radiator inlet) that would send warmed coolant (when the thermostat opens) to the radiator. In this setup, how does (or would) the water circulate within the engine block when the thermostat is still CLOSED. What do I need to do (ie what am I missing in the design) to make sure this works properly.

Thanks in advance for any help.

THE 383 admiral

The LT1 flows coolant to the stat. That is both inlet & outlet. Then to the heads. Unlike conventional systems pushing from the front of the block.

Here is a very detailed description.
http://www.fierolt1.com/lt1_cool.htm

lt14x4

Thanks for the link. Lots of info to help understand how the LT1 water pump and cooling system works. There's a lot that takes place in the water pump (actually a pretty ingenuous design), which would be a lot to replicate in a new non LT1 pump system.

I'd still like to move the water pump and am now thinking about a design that uses a electric motor for the existing LT1 pump and fabricating a custom mount somewhere on the fender well or other suitable location for the pump, and fabricating a couple of custom engine block hose adapters and running hoses from the 2 inlet and 2 outlet ports to a similar custom hose adapter on the water pump.

That would keep the modifications to a minimal, allow a remote setup, and be relatively cost effective (electric motor for the pump, some radiator and heater hose, and maybe $10/$20 worth of metal/aluminum for the custom block and pump hose adapters).

lt14x4

Was wondering if anyone has done a remote water pump install with a standalone electric remote water pump?

The link that 383 Admiral provided had a pretty good explanation, but after reading it again, the part I wish I understood was what/how the 2 way thermostat works. This seems to be where the LT1 water pump is so different that the earlier SBC water pumps. From what I could understand, the 2 way thermostat regulates a chamber that handles the incoming cooled coolant, as well as the outgoing heated coolant (once that coolant has reached a certain temp).

The reason why I reverted back to design plans that retained the existing water pump (to be mounted remotely) was that I was not clear on how to route/design the hoses and or re-create the 2 way thermostat chamber to replicate the operation of the water pump.

Anyone know how to do this, or done this before?

The reason for doing this is (1) to get the water pump away from the Opti (for the time being, as I'm planning a 24x conversion when time and $ allow) and (2) this would really make re and re the water pump a lot less messy job in the future.

Klondike

I replaced my cam driven pump with a CSR electric pump, (very much like a Meziere electric pump) and really love the way it functions. Steady water flow whether I am sitting at a stop light or going 100MPH. No worries of over pressuring a hose or heater core either, because it flows steady about 40 GPM all the time.
I eliminated an oil leak by removing the stock pump drive and plugging the front cover hole by JB Welding in a Kennedy 1/2 dollar in the drive hole. Also with no water pump drive shaft there is no chance of a water leak either! The CSR kit comes with instructions on how to knock out the stock impeller & shaft and the electric pump installs into the front of the stock waterpump housing where the front cover was. No water leaks and no pump drive to leak oil either. It retains the stock thermostat and water routing through the pump housing so this would be a lot easier for you than trying to fabricate some remote pump.

lt14x4

That's definitely an easier option. I've go the LT1 in a mid size 4x4 and it doesn't have the room/space in between the water pump and the radiator that a Vette has. The Vette's have a pretty long nose, and I've very very limited room in that area of the vehicle, especially for any type of maintenance or re and re of parts in that area.

I hear what you say about the extra hoses and how that could add to chances for leaks etc. IF I decide to go ahead, maybe I'll have to look into pipes or something that is stronger than basic heater and radiator hoses so that I don't inadvertently create a 2nd issue by solving the 1st 2 reasons for contemplating this.

What did you do re the drive gear in the back of the pump after putting in the front mounted electric motor? Is it removed when the electric motor is installed?

Klondike

I pulled the timing chain off and removed all of that drive gear & shaft from in there and plugged up the drive shaft hole with the 1/2 dollar.
A few weeks back I went to the "Good Guys" car show in Ft. Worth and saw an electric water pump that might just be the trick for your remote application. It is EWP (Electric Water Pump) by Davies,Craig ltd. hey have several styles from 21gpm to 34.4gpm and can be mounted in any position and almost anywhere you can run the hoses to. We're thinking of using one of these on a Pantera for the same clearance reasons you mentioned for your application. If you can figure out how to make the thermostat work for the LT1 routing of the water these are pretty nice pumps.( www.daviescraig.com.au )

lt14x4

Thanks for the info. I've found a few remote pumps that would work, however the main stumbling block on a final decision is finding some detailed information on what the 2 way thermostat chamber looks like, and how it functions, and seeing if I can design something that is simple to replicate.

I've not been able to find a drawing or cut out pic of the internal flow of the LT1 water pump/thermostat, so that part of the design is still a major unknown.

The plan would be to retain the 2 way OEM thermostat setup as that is critical to the advantages of this reverse cooling system

ColinOpseth

Hey,
I have an LT1 in a Chevrolet Vega. I am doing the same swap. I will be using a remote Meziere pump. If you're interested, I'll share where I am at with the project. The reason I am doing a remote pump is it's either cut the body to allow me to move the radiator forward, or move the pump back. Can't do that as my engine is already 1/2" from the firewall, so I guess that seals the deal.

My previous combo had a small street strip that bolted to the core support but it was only good for short run times. The car got hot and ended up sucking a head gasket. I have a new radiator from Griffin and it should kick butt, but unless I find an inch somewhere, I'm screwed. Good times.

What it boils down to is:
- CNC machined block plates
- AN- fittings welded into the plates
- AN- hoses to the pump
- Remote thermostat
- Meziere remote water pump

Sounds easy. Gonna be expensive.

lt14x4

Here's a link to another article http://www.gmtuners.com/LT1build/page3.htm for a remote WP in a Fiero.

From what I can gather, the LT1 thermostat sits in a chamber where when the coolant is cold, the thermostat closes one side of the chamber and the WP continues to circulate the yet to be heated coolant back into the block. Though not sure how the WP does this without affecting the other chamber.

Once the wax pellet melts/expands and closes off the path for the "coolant when cold", and opens the path to the radiator and the coolant (which is now hot) is pushed out to the radiator (by the WP pulling coolant from the radiator).

I'm trying to understand what the chamber lots like and how the WP is able to circulate coolant when the thermostat is closed to the second chamber that flows to the radiator. When the thermostat opens to the second chamber when the coolant is hot, I'm thinking the system works the same as a traditional thermostat system. The major difference (besides the reverse cooling) is that the LT1 WP continues to circulate coolant when the thermostat (in the conventional sense) is closed. Is this correct?

I've a idea of what/how to design a system, but some added input to this would help as well.

lt14x4

I found this, which shows the hot coolant "out" port of the WP, which routes the coolant (to the radiator). With the 2 level thermostat, would it be correct that when the coolant is heated, it opens the top of the thermostat and which allows cold coolant in from the radiator, and simultaneously the heated thermostat's lower plate pushes down and closes the opening to the chamber (just above the drive mechanism) shown in the cut-away pic).

The cold coolant stays in the upper chamber and is pushed (or sucked) into the WP upper ports that flow the cold coolant into the engine? The warm coolant is then restricted from being recirculated back into the engine and is forced out to the radiator.

Paul Workman

Great info!

I don't have an LT1 since I bought the ZR-1 in '07, so I can't contribute directly from any specific knowledge of that application.

However, a couple things that hasn't been mentioned that some of you can perhaps touch on:

Horsepower! The water pump presents a significant drag on the motor output which increases with RPM. One of our better tuners/modifying engineers of the LT5 estimated that it might be worth 10-15 hp to switch to an electric water pump (not to mention some of the other benefits already mentioned).

Pump failure? The other thing - more of a "warning" than benefit, that same LT5 guru cooked an LT5 when the water pump electric motor died while (IIRC) he was cruising home after a Bowling Green gathering.

Installing a pump failure light somewhere in the dash - something that would get your attention immediately - would have prevented a very pricy "Oh, sheeeiiit!!!" I wouldn't install an electric water pump w/o some way of monitoring the pump's status - especially if it quit (as some have been known to do!).

lt14x4

Outside of a high coolant temp sensor activating a warning light, I've not been able to find or come up with a full proof solution to an electric motor failure that's readily available. It would take a custom set of electronics (with a current flow sensing ability to tell the electric motor has quit and no longer drawing amperage) and unless there is a "plug and play" someone knows of, this is a custom circuit.

Even if a motor goes down, it may not blow the fuse, so even a simple relay rigger would not be full proof. Another warning indicator would be a higher temp warning, but that might only come on after the electric motor dies, not WHEN it dies. Depending on the set temp, it would either be a nuisance every time coolant gets hotter than normal, or so high that there's already damage done.

Still searching...