'96 Vette as a first car
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-16-2015, 08:57 PM
#43
Any car can get you in over your head. Answer the following questions and you will have your answer as to wether it's a good idea.
Can you afford it? Insurance and repairs
Can you be responsible? To respect the car, know your limitations and not bow to peer pressure when someone tells you to punch it.
Are you willing to learn? A C4 is a high performance car that needs maintenance best done by you with Knowledgable advice.
If the answers are yes then go for it, if not give it a few years. Whatever you do, do some research. Don't buy the first car you see. Make sure it's a good one. Do overs are expensive.
Can you afford it? Insurance and repairs
Can you be responsible? To respect the car, know your limitations and not bow to peer pressure when someone tells you to punch it.
Are you willing to learn? A C4 is a high performance car that needs maintenance best done by you with Knowledgable advice.
If the answers are yes then go for it, if not give it a few years. Whatever you do, do some research. Don't buy the first car you see. Make sure it's a good one. Do overs are expensive.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-17-2015, 11:09 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
A toyota camry with a V6 has nearly as much power, as a C4 people.
It's not some freakish fast hotrod anymore.
Sure it gets fast AFTER you modify it...but it sure doesn't start that way.
As far as a first car goes... I'd say it would make a great SECOND car. Get something like a Cavalier, Cobalt, whatever as your first, for one reason.
You need fuel economy, and ease of access to parts for your first car man.
Get a C4 later, after you've already gotten a car. You're in high school, Corvette parts can be expensive, (yes even C4 parts) especially on a highschool budget. Having another car, means when your C4 breaks you can still get around, while you get the parts for the C4.
It's not some freakish fast hotrod anymore.
Sure it gets fast AFTER you modify it...but it sure doesn't start that way.
As far as a first car goes... I'd say it would make a great SECOND car. Get something like a Cavalier, Cobalt, whatever as your first, for one reason.
You need fuel economy, and ease of access to parts for your first car man.
Get a C4 later, after you've already gotten a car. You're in high school, Corvette parts can be expensive, (yes even C4 parts) especially on a highschool budget. Having another car, means when your C4 breaks you can still get around, while you get the parts for the C4.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-17-2015, 05:46 PM
#47
The difference between a c4 and these 300+ hp v6 gutless wonders is a thing called torque though. They make the horsepower, but they dont have crap for torque, thats why they get these stupid 7-8 speed transmissions. You put your foot down in one on the highway and it screams bloody murder, down shifts 17 times, then when the rpms are at 6000 you finally start to accelerate. Its the torque that gets people in RWD v8's into trouble.
Put two turbos on that v6 and you have a different animal though, more times then not it also makes more torque at a lower rpm then a modern V8 too.
Put two turbos on that v6 and you have a different animal though, more times then not it also makes more torque at a lower rpm then a modern V8 too.
Last edited by trilkb; 11-17-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-17-2015, 06:01 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
In point of fact, a late-model V6 Accord runs the quarter mile in 13.9-14.1 seconds at around 101mph, despite weighing 200-300lbs more than a C4. So it is actually extremely competitive in acceleration with any C4 short of a ZR1. And, given that these modern DOHC cars have independently adjustable cam phasing (so they can vary their overlap), they generally have much wider power bands and much flatter torque curves than an old L98 or even an LT1.
Spin it however you want (pun intended), but the fact is that stock C4s are just not that fast compared to run-of-the-mill modern sedans. All of this caution about C4s being too fast for a kid's first car is way overdone. If the kid is going to an irresposible driver, then it won't matter much what car he's driving. A C4 has ASR, good ABS, and airbags, so it's reasonably safe. Let's stop going overboard about all of this.
11-17-2015, 06:21 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Nope, that's mythology. Torque measured at the crankshaft has no meaning. The force that accelerates a car is the torque at the driven tires' contact patches (also called "tractive effort"), not the torque at the crank. And that tractive effort is determined by the power the engine makes, not the torque.
In point of fact, a late-model V6 Accord runs the quarter mile in 13.9-14.1 seconds at around 101mph, despite weighing 200-300lbs more than a C4. So it is actually extremely competitive in acceleration with any C4 short of a ZR1. And, given that these modern DOHC cars have independently adjustable cam phasing (so they can vary their overlap), they generally have much wider power bands and much flatter torque curves than an old L98 or even an LT1.
Spin it however you want (pun intended), but the fact is that stock C4s are just not that fast compared to run-of-the-mill modern sedans. All of this caution about C4s being too fast for a kid's first car is way overdone. If the kid is going to an irresposible driver, then it won't matter much what car he's driving. A C4 has ASR, good ABS, and airbags, so it's reasonably safe. Let's stop going overboard about all of this.
In point of fact, a late-model V6 Accord runs the quarter mile in 13.9-14.1 seconds at around 101mph, despite weighing 200-300lbs more than a C4. So it is actually extremely competitive in acceleration with any C4 short of a ZR1. And, given that these modern DOHC cars have independently adjustable cam phasing (so they can vary their overlap), they generally have much wider power bands and much flatter torque curves than an old L98 or even an LT1.
Spin it however you want (pun intended), but the fact is that stock C4s are just not that fast compared to run-of-the-mill modern sedans. All of this caution about C4s being too fast for a kid's first car is way overdone. If the kid is going to an irresposible driver, then it won't matter much what car he's driving. A C4 has ASR, good ABS, and airbags, so it's reasonably safe. Let's stop going overboard about all of this.
Thing about a Corvette is that many people will want to race you. I just took my C4 out yesterday and had two different people trying to race. I just drove away normal. But I'm 39 and have self control. I can guarantee you if I was 16 I would of went for it every time. Not many people will want to race a regular 4dr sedan compared to a Corvette. So more chances of doing stupid ****.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-17-2015, 06:29 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
Well I guess he could buy one of boring newer sedans with Takata airbags that inure or kill occupants when they deploy.
I mean, I guess so. Not many people have tried to race me - one kid in a pickup. My recollections of teen and college driving years was that people raced and wrecked every kind of vehicle imaginable. It didn't have to have sporting intentions.
What did make difference, though, was that we had a very active sports car club that held autocross and open-track events. We got our enthusiasms out in those events, and didn't have to race every person that came along revving his engine. I think every teen, regardless of the type of car he/she drives, should participate in a Tire Rack Street Survival School. Furthermore, I think they would all benefit from competing in at least a few autocrosses.
Thing about a Corvette is that many people will want to race you. I just took my C4 out yesterday and had two different people trying to race. I just drove away normal.
What did make difference, though, was that we had a very active sports car club that held autocross and open-track events. We got our enthusiasms out in those events, and didn't have to race every person that came along revving his engine. I think every teen, regardless of the type of car he/she drives, should participate in a Tire Rack Street Survival School. Furthermore, I think they would all benefit from competing in at least a few autocrosses.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-17-2015, 09:09 PM
#51
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2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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Congrats... Drive safe 
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 07:47 AM
#52
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Torque measured at the crankshaft has no meaning. The force that accelerates a car is the torque at the driven tires' contact patches (also called "tractive effort"), not the torque at the crank. And that tractive effort is determined by the power the engine makes, not the torque.
If by "power" you are referring to horsepower, then you are well off-base; horsepower is not produced by any engine. Horsepower is simply calculated from the torque produced by the engine at specific rpm. I.e horsepower is a number. Torque is the only power produced by your engine.
I'll put my stock C4 up against any 300hp Toyota you'd care to select. Superior torque spread is the reason.
Finally, if the 300hp Toyota is the equal of the 300hp C4, then tell me why the Toyota won't top out at the same 160mph that the C4 is capable of.
To the OP: if street credibility is your focus, believe me when I tell you that you'll be challenged for it constantly and if you don't accept the challenge (and you say you won't be racing it), your street cred will be zero. Like you said, street credibility has to be earned. You are not at the right point in your life for a LT1 Corvette. I've seen too many high school kids end up in the hospital or the morgue because thier cars were faster than the drivers. It takes a very mature driver to be able to handle the power and the challenges a Corvette brings. Not many high school boys possess that maturity and nothing I've read on this thread indicates the OP is one of the few.
Last edited by rocco16; 11-18-2015 at 07:55 AM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 10:56 AM
#53
Melting Slicks
An engine actually makes torque. It's the measurable power produced. Torque at the rear wheels is the result of torque produced at the crankshaft.
If by "power" you are referring to horsepower, then you are well off-base; horsepower is not produced by any engine. Horsepower is simply calculated from the torque produced by the engine at specific rpm. I.e horsepower is a number. Torque is the only power produced by your engine.
I'll put my stock C4 up against any 300hp Toyota you'd care to select. Superior torque spread is the reason.
Finally, if the 300hp Toyota is the equal of the 300hp C4, then tell me why the Toyota won't top out at the same 160mph that the C4 is capable of.
To the OP: if street credibility is your focus, believe me when I tell you that you'll be challenged for it constantly and if you don't accept the challenge (and you say you won't be racing it), your street cred will be zero. Like you said, street credibility has to be earned. You are not at the right point in your life for a LT1 Corvette. I've seen too many high school kids end up in the hospital or the morgue because thier cars were faster than the drivers. It takes a very mature driver to be able to handle the power and the challenges a Corvette brings. Not many high school boys possess that maturity and nothing I've read on this thread indicates the OP is one of the few.
If by "power" you are referring to horsepower, then you are well off-base; horsepower is not produced by any engine. Horsepower is simply calculated from the torque produced by the engine at specific rpm. I.e horsepower is a number. Torque is the only power produced by your engine.
I'll put my stock C4 up against any 300hp Toyota you'd care to select. Superior torque spread is the reason.
Finally, if the 300hp Toyota is the equal of the 300hp C4, then tell me why the Toyota won't top out at the same 160mph that the C4 is capable of.
To the OP: if street credibility is your focus, believe me when I tell you that you'll be challenged for it constantly and if you don't accept the challenge (and you say you won't be racing it), your street cred will be zero. Like you said, street credibility has to be earned. You are not at the right point in your life for a LT1 Corvette. I've seen too many high school kids end up in the hospital or the morgue because thier cars were faster than the drivers. It takes a very mature driver to be able to handle the power and the challenges a Corvette brings. Not many high school boys possess that maturity and nothing I've read on this thread indicates the OP is one of the few.
2, it produces 275 hp. (more than an L98, less than LT1), 3 and this is the biggy, it's a real important one and you must pay careful attention here.
There's this thing, this thing, it makes your car faster without the need for more power, this thing, is so magical and mystical, it's called aerodynamic drag, and drag cross sectional area. The camry produces more drag than the C4.
That Camry, is capable of low 14s and high 13s, Stock. Power and weight, is still power and weight.
The C4 isn't a hot rod in stock trim anymore man. That's ok. The newest one is 21 years old. A 21 year old camry (If you can even find one), doesn't have a prayer in hell at least.
All the C4 is right now, is a GREAT platform to modify and build from. Which is something the Camry can't say.
When it comes to the C4 (and now even the C5 arguably), Stock = Slow compared to today's cars.
Put it this way, Lotus, is using a Camry V6 in their cars. A Lotus will drag your ***, a ZR-1s ***, and a Callaway's ***, in stock trims all day and night long.
Last edited by MavsAK; 11-18-2015 at 11:02 AM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 11:12 AM
#54
I wasn't saying the c4 is faster then a v6 Camry or accord, even though it slightly is...i hate the way most of those v6s drive. The Toyotas feel better then most, but a 300hp v6 f150 feels like it has zero *****.
I'm saying the low rpm torque and rwd is the reason they are more unsafe then a fwd camry. Go find a wet road and apart from understeer from entering a turn to fast I'd bet Good money a corvette will spin first.
Also a suburban has less of a drag coefficient then a corvette does lol.
That's why I'm not an engineer. I remember the first time I learned how un economical motorcycles were. They may get 50mpg, but they are crazy inefficient and pollute like crazy.
I'm saying the low rpm torque and rwd is the reason they are more unsafe then a fwd camry. Go find a wet road and apart from understeer from entering a turn to fast I'd bet Good money a corvette will spin first.
Also a suburban has less of a drag coefficient then a corvette does lol.
That's why I'm not an engineer. I remember the first time I learned how un economical motorcycles were. They may get 50mpg, but they are crazy inefficient and pollute like crazy.
Last edited by trilkb; 11-18-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 11:25 AM
#55
Melting Slicks
I wasn't saying the c4 is faster then a v6 Camry or accord, even though it slightly is...i hate the way most of those v6s drive. The Toyotas feel better then most, but a 300hp v6 f150 feels like it has zero *****.
I'm saying the low rpm torque and rwd is the reason they are more unsafe then a fwd camry. Go find a wet road and apart from understeer from entering a turn to fast I'd bet Good money a corvette will spin first.
Also a suburban has less of a drag coefficient then a corvette does lol.
That's why I'm not an engineer. I remember the first time I learned how un economical motorcycles were. They may get 50mpg, but they are crazy inefficient and pollute like crazy.
I'm saying the low rpm torque and rwd is the reason they are more unsafe then a fwd camry. Go find a wet road and apart from understeer from entering a turn to fast I'd bet Good money a corvette will spin first.
Also a suburban has less of a drag coefficient then a corvette does lol.
That's why I'm not an engineer. I remember the first time I learned how un economical motorcycles were. They may get 50mpg, but they are crazy inefficient and pollute like crazy.
So the C4 has both less coefficient AND is punching a much smaller hole through the air.
This is also why it has the aero advantage over a Camry. The Camry is Freaking Huge next to the C4.
Also a 300hp V6 F150 is lugging around like 6,000lbs. A 5.3 Silverado feels just as gutless, and that's squarely on the obesity of the vehicles in question.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1561944638 also, this is worth noting. C4 being so small, with a relatively clean aero profile means it doesn't take much HP to get to speed.
Last edited by MavsAK; 11-18-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 11:38 AM
#56
do it kid. post pics.
you sound like you are already aware of safety and that at the end of the day, it is you and you alone who will dictate if you live or die in the car.
post pics.
you sound like you are already aware of safety and that at the end of the day, it is you and you alone who will dictate if you live or die in the car.
post pics.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 01:36 PM
#57
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11-18-2015, 01:45 PM
#58
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St. Jude Donor '05
Agree with it being a good 2nd car
These things are getting old even with lower mileage it could run a long time or nickel and dime (they can do that well). Give ya an example...had my eyes on a very low mile truck which looked the part too.
Guy took a week to call me back from the ad....motor blew up first time he started leaning on it, only had it a month. Dodged an expensive bullet!!
Get a beater 4 cyl for $1500 that runs good but you dont care about then go after a toy you can spend time on.
I never listened to any of that stuff when I was young, first car was a 67 rs...loved it but learned the hard way
Problem was walking about 8 mi to work had to do it often.
These things are getting old even with lower mileage it could run a long time or nickel and dime (they can do that well). Give ya an example...had my eyes on a very low mile truck which looked the part too.
Guy took a week to call me back from the ad....motor blew up first time he started leaning on it, only had it a month. Dodged an expensive bullet!!
Get a beater 4 cyl for $1500 that runs good but you dont care about then go after a toy you can spend time on.
I never listened to any of that stuff when I was young, first car was a 67 rs...loved it but learned the hard way
Problem was walking about 8 mi to work had to do it often.
Last edited by cv67; 11-18-2015 at 01:48 PM.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 03:23 PM
#59
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I brought my first Corvette home when I was 18. It was a 1958. No front bumper or fender, hood was gone, no reverse, windshield wipers would not shut off, no exhaust. But it was a Corvette. My insurance agent said I could insure it with no premium increase. Then my mom said to not bother to ask her to borrow gas money and my insurance guy called back and said "did you say a Corvair or a Corvette?". Needless to say it was several years (50) before I got brought home a Corvette I could keep.
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)
11-18-2015, 04:02 PM
#60
My first car was a 4-door 1971 Chevelle that was a family hand-me-down. V8, 4 wheel non-power drum brakes and not even power steering. No airbags, no anti-lock, just lap seat belts and shoulder belts that weren't used.
My second car was a 2-door 1972 Chevelle that i hot rodded the hell out of... My 3rd car was another 2-door 1972 Chevelle that I hot rodded as well...
By conventional overprotective parent thinking these days there is no way in hell I ever should have lived through my college years driving cars that were so dangerous.
I'm a social Darwinist. If kids are meant to live they will. If they win a "Darwin Award" by wrapping their car around a phone pole at a high rate of speed then that's just evolution in action. It isn't like humans are an endangered species. Let the kid buy whatever car he wants. If he buys one that is unreliable and he ends up having to push it or walk to get around then he'll probably get more exercise. If he has to learn how to fix it then he's learned something and possibly a valuable skill or something that could be a career (there is a shortage of good auto mechanics these days and well trained SAE certified mechanics actually make decent money).
My second car was a 2-door 1972 Chevelle that i hot rodded the hell out of... My 3rd car was another 2-door 1972 Chevelle that I hot rodded as well...
By conventional overprotective parent thinking these days there is no way in hell I ever should have lived through my college years driving cars that were so dangerous.
I'm a social Darwinist. If kids are meant to live they will. If they win a "Darwin Award" by wrapping their car around a phone pole at a high rate of speed then that's just evolution in action. It isn't like humans are an endangered species. Let the kid buy whatever car he wants. If he buys one that is unreliable and he ends up having to push it or walk to get around then he'll probably get more exercise. If he has to learn how to fix it then he's learned something and possibly a valuable skill or something that could be a career (there is a shortage of good auto mechanics these days and well trained SAE certified mechanics actually make decent money).
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Rikmann (11-22-2015)