C4 battery drain...maybe?
04-17-2016, 07:47 PM
#21
Race Director
Sounds like your seat switch is messed up. 19amps will kill a battery in a matter of hours.
04-18-2016, 06:34 AM
#22
Safety Car
I need to do some more research but I'm making headway. What I did by accident was apparently while I was doing some PM on the car, I had put a number of tools on the console and seat while working on the car. I apparently put something on a box of mint I had in that well with the mirror and seat switch pushing the seat switch down and holding it down. That's what caused the voltage drain on the battery from what I can tell. While trying to track down the source of the voltage leak [after having packed up the tools without realizing the connection] I found a little meter you put a fuse in and plug into the fuse panel where a fuse went. Happens that circuit breaker for the power locks and seats is a 30 amp circuit breaker so it exceeds the 19 amps I was seeing. Whether the switch or motor is damaged or not, I don't know currently what the amperage is supposed to be on a valid working seat motor. When I put that meter in and pushed the seat switch down and held it, I showed 19 amps draw on that circuit. That's where I'm at for the moment. I just pulled the circuit breaker for now till I can do some more research on it.
Hope that might help someone tracking down a similar issue. It was a stupid error on my part but caused some great concerns on my part till I found out where the issue was originating from.
Last edited by hcbph; 04-18-2016 at 06:45 AM.
04-18-2016, 08:48 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
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For Clarification (et al) for those not familiar with electricity terminology, just think of it this way:
VOLTAGE = the measure unit of electromotive FORCE
AMPERE = the measure unit of CURRENT or electron flow
OHMS = the measure unit of RESISTANCE to current flow
The analogy is water: Voltage = water pressure, Amperes = the water flow (in the pipe), and Ohms = the amount of resistance to the flow, quantified by the amount of flow allowed for a specific amount of pressure (voltage).
It's NOT just "semantics"!
These terms are very specific and are NOT interchangeable.
So, when using or implying the wrong terms to describe a problem can (and often does) lead to confusion...Just saying.Hope this helps someone?
Last edited by Paul Workman; 04-18-2016 at 08:51 AM.
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Lee Stevenson (10-21-2019)
04-18-2016, 10:28 AM
#24
To the Original Poster: Put your VOM on Amps scale. With key off, remove the LCD fuse. Put the leads of the VOM across the fuse terminals. Turn key ON, You will see about 500ma on the meter. Turn key OFF, meter will show about 250ma, and wait. After about a minute, you should see the meter drop to about 25ma. If it stays at about 250ma, it's the cluster causing your draw.
250ma will kill a battery in about a week. A batter tender will probably keep up with the draw. I have found this LCD draw on an 84, an 85, and an 88. Batee should know about it, and how to fix it, IF this is your problem.
250ma will kill a battery in about a week. A batter tender will probably keep up with the draw. I have found this LCD draw on an 84, an 85, and an 88. Batee should know about it, and how to fix it, IF this is your problem.
THNX -
04-18-2016, 11:06 AM
#25
Race Director
To the Original Poster: Put your VOM on Amps scale. With key off, remove the LCD fuse. Put the leads of the VOM across the fuse terminals. Turn key ON, You will see about 500ma on the meter. Turn key OFF, meter will show about 250ma, and wait. After about a minute, you should see the meter drop to about 25ma. If it stays at about 250ma, it's the cluster causing your draw.
250ma will kill a battery in about a week. A batter tender will probably keep up with the draw. I have found this LCD draw on an 84, an 85, and an 88. Batee should know about it, and how to fix it, IF this is your problem.
250ma will kill a battery in about a week. A batter tender will probably keep up with the draw. I have found this LCD draw on an 84, an 85, and an 88. Batee should know about it, and how to fix it, IF this is your problem.
Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 04-18-2016 at 11:07 AM.
04-18-2016, 06:32 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
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It is an alternate method to monitoring current at the battery and pulling fused to find the circuit with the higher than normal draw.
Always more than one way to "skin the cat!"
04-18-2016, 07:03 PM
#27
Race Director
To isolate current draw to a particular circuit, one measures the current of that one circuit (fuse or breaker, etc), because measuring at the battery will not isolate the faulty circuit.
It is an alternate method to monitoring current at the battery and pulling fused to find the circuit with the higher than normal draw.
Always more than one way to "skin the cat!"
It is an alternate method to monitoring current at the battery and pulling fused to find the circuit with the higher than normal draw.
Always more than one way to "skin the cat!"
04-18-2016, 09:33 PM
#28
Race Director
Because I've worked on 3 Star Wars Cluster C4's which would have a dead battery if it wasn't driven for a couple of weeks. In all 3, it was the cluster, and the draw is through the LCD fuse.
Going to the battery is OK, but there are other normal draws in a C4 that will add to the LCD fuse draw. If I'm suspicious of a particular circuit, AND I have an idea of what I should see on that circuit, why not check it directly, and not have to do calculations of what the fuse I just pulled share is of the total draw?
I use Metripack 280 male terminals to insert into the fuse holders. They don't distort the terminals, and I connect my alligator leads to them. I do a lot of wiring and harness work. I have boxes of old harnesses and connectors. I also use the 280 male terminals to make ALDL jumpers. The ALDL is Metripack 280, so the terminals fit really well.
That's why I check at the fuse. I know what I expect to see, and I rule out a known cause of flat batteries after a week right off the bat. Faster than removing the neg cable, setting up the VOM, then resetting the clock when you're done.
Going to the battery is OK, but there are other normal draws in a C4 that will add to the LCD fuse draw. If I'm suspicious of a particular circuit, AND I have an idea of what I should see on that circuit, why not check it directly, and not have to do calculations of what the fuse I just pulled share is of the total draw?
I use Metripack 280 male terminals to insert into the fuse holders. They don't distort the terminals, and I connect my alligator leads to them. I do a lot of wiring and harness work. I have boxes of old harnesses and connectors. I also use the 280 male terminals to make ALDL jumpers. The ALDL is Metripack 280, so the terminals fit really well.
That's why I check at the fuse. I know what I expect to see, and I rule out a known cause of flat batteries after a week right off the bat. Faster than removing the neg cable, setting up the VOM, then resetting the clock when you're done.
04-18-2016, 09:55 PM
#29
Well that's fair enough I suppose. I don't see anything inherently wrong with skipping to a suspected known conclusion. I guess the issue would be with anyone attempting to connect their test leads to the fuse panel without the proper terminals. In the event you deform the female side of the fuse terminals then you have a real problem that would be very difficult to fix properly.
Last edited by WVZR-1; 04-18-2016 at 09:56 PM.
04-18-2016, 10:47 PM
#30
Race Director
Digression on wiring connectors
Most that I know (and I) that do older with ATO fuses keep a couple/few of the "blown" ATO fuses for just what's mentioned using the Metri-pack 280's for. At one time I believe I had 3 bushel baskets of older miscellaneous GM harnesses and clipped connectors. It used to be that you couldn't buy connectors, pig-tails, terminals or shells. You never let an opportunity to ****** a harness go away.
04-19-2016, 01:09 AM
#31
5th Gear
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End of Day Four...battery still charging. Is this normal? Holding at a little over 12 volts. Tempted to take the battery back into the store and see what's up or buy a new one.
Any recommendations on a battery?
Any recommendations on a battery?
04-19-2016, 03:56 AM
#32
If there's a reseller of the brand locally take it to the reseller and have it checked. Plan on leaving it with them for likely a day to allow them to charge it properly and then check.
A brand for purchase? Buy local and there's many good, better and BEST (BEST can certainly be debated). I'd avoid any dual post builds (side/top).
04-19-2016, 09:51 AM
#34
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In fact, I've intentionally blown (shorted across the battery) some ATO fuses just for that purpose - to make a test jug of them. And, Vette2Vette supplied me with some spare harnesses specifically for the reasons you stated.
Things like the fog light stalks ... hard to find anywhere but a Corvette recycling center.
04-17-2017, 02:27 PM
#35
I am having some real problems with the drain on my 1992 corvette. I have read most of the threads, and tried everything I can think of. So maybe somebody has an idea, because I am just about out of ideas. The car will not turn over after sitting anywhere for about four days. The battery tested fine after I charged it in the garage.. The alternator was tested at the parts store, it tested fine (actually two different stores.) So I began the process of trying to find the parasitic drain. My under hood lights have been disconnected for a while, so I don't they are the problem. I performed what I think are the correct steps for checking the current with my multimeter. It took me a while to understand how to use the meter, but eventually I got a repeatable reading of 21 milliamps ... after the car spun the headlight motors. If I pulled the relay for the power seats during this time, the amperage would drop a bit .... that seemed strange, but with the relay back in, it settled at 21 milliamps again. I pulled a few other fuses just to see what happened, and everything seemed normal.
So now, I am really scratching my head. The current draw for the car seems to test normal, but the battery seems to go dead as the car sits in the garage. Today it was reading 7 volts, and would not start the car.
So now, I am really scratching my head. The current draw for the car seems to test normal, but the battery seems to go dead as the car sits in the garage. Today it was reading 7 volts, and would not start the car.
Last edited by davetop; 04-17-2017 at 02:53 PM.
04-17-2017, 07:03 PM
#36
Instructor
I am having some real problems with the drain on my 1992 corvette. I have read most of the threads, and tried everything I can think of. So maybe somebody has an idea, because I am just about out of ideas. The car will not turn over after sitting anywhere for about four days. The battery tested fine after I charged it in the garage.. The alternator was tested at the parts store, it tested fine (actually two different stores.) So I began the process of trying to find the parasitic drain. My under hood lights have been disconnected for a while, so I don't they are the problem. I performed what I think are the correct steps for checking the current with my multimeter. It took me a while to understand how to use the meter, but eventually I got a repeatable reading of 21 milliamps ... after the car spun the headlight motors. If I pulled the relay for the power seats during this time, the amperage would drop a bit .... that seemed strange, but with the relay back in, it settled at 21 milliamps again. I pulled a few other fuses just to see what happened, and everything seemed normal.
So now, I am really scratching my head. The current draw for the car seems to test normal, but the battery seems to go dead as the car sits in the garage. Today it was reading 7 volts, and would not start the car.
So now, I am really scratching my head. The current draw for the car seems to test normal, but the battery seems to go dead as the car sits in the garage. Today it was reading 7 volts, and would not start the car.
Disconnect all wires (all) to the alternator and see if it starts after 4 days. Testing at the store only shows that it works.
Last edited by Crash594; 04-17-2017 at 07:04 PM.
04-24-2017, 12:39 PM
#37
Thanks Crash. I disconnected the altertator, let the car sit, and the battery was dead. Then when I tried to charge the battery, I got a fault code on my charger ... so maybe the battery is no good after all. I am now taking it in for re-test
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davetop (05-08-2017)
04-25-2017, 07:34 PM
#39
Drain
Blimey, this is a confusing thread... the O/P and his original fault has been hijacked n lost several times...
my way of thinking on this is if the battery has been on charge for more than 8 hrs and still at only 11 volts then either the charge rate is very very low or the battery is dead...the easiest way to check if a battery is good is to... when it's flat and won't start the car where the voltage is say 7-11 volts boost it from another vehicle to make sure you have at least 12.2volts at the failing battery. Use an inductive amp clamp around the negative lead of the non starting vehicle to check for any drain...once this is ok start the vehicle, remove the jumper leads and again using the inductive amp clamp and a volt meter check the charge rate... voltage should be 13.7-14.2volts normally and charging at 30 plus amps for a good battery. A new battery that's flat can or will accept what ever the alternator can output typically 60/80 amps or more...if the battery is only accepting 15-20 amps then it's time for replacement. If it's taking 5 or under its dead.
much more reliable than lights on a battery charger that will tell you it's fully charged when its just that the battery is failing and not accepting a charge so the charger seeing that little current is being used thinks its full...
ok...that's it from me... hope this helps
my way of thinking on this is if the battery has been on charge for more than 8 hrs and still at only 11 volts then either the charge rate is very very low or the battery is dead...the easiest way to check if a battery is good is to... when it's flat and won't start the car where the voltage is say 7-11 volts boost it from another vehicle to make sure you have at least 12.2volts at the failing battery. Use an inductive amp clamp around the negative lead of the non starting vehicle to check for any drain...once this is ok start the vehicle, remove the jumper leads and again using the inductive amp clamp and a volt meter check the charge rate... voltage should be 13.7-14.2volts normally and charging at 30 plus amps for a good battery. A new battery that's flat can or will accept what ever the alternator can output typically 60/80 amps or more...if the battery is only accepting 15-20 amps then it's time for replacement. If it's taking 5 or under its dead.
much more reliable than lights on a battery charger that will tell you it's fully charged when its just that the battery is failing and not accepting a charge so the charger seeing that little current is being used thinks its full...
ok...that's it from me... hope this helps
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davetop (05-08-2017)
04-26-2017, 06:09 AM
#40
Safety Car
Here's something I found while diagnosing my issue and might be useful to you. I found this at HF but I've seen them on ebay too.
You pull a fuse, plug the meter into the slot in the fuse block and the fuse into the side of the meter. It will show how much draw you have on any given circuit so you can see where the drain is, assuming it's going through the fuse panel. I had to make a couple of jumpers to do the circuit beakers in the front of the fuse panels but was even able to check those with this.
I found that the circuit breaker that controlled the power seats also controls the power locks, and there is some draw there regardless but not like when you have something inadvertently pressing down on the seat control button.
One other thing I got was a clamp-on digital meter that the clamp-on read DC amps. I have another one, but found out that one only reads AC amps via the clamp. This one you can just clamp around a wire and see the amps being drawn on it without having to puncture or probe in the wires to get those readings.
Good luck.
You pull a fuse, plug the meter into the slot in the fuse block and the fuse into the side of the meter. It will show how much draw you have on any given circuit so you can see where the drain is, assuming it's going through the fuse panel. I had to make a couple of jumpers to do the circuit beakers in the front of the fuse panels but was even able to check those with this.
I found that the circuit breaker that controlled the power seats also controls the power locks, and there is some draw there regardless but not like when you have something inadvertently pressing down on the seat control button.
One other thing I got was a clamp-on digital meter that the clamp-on read DC amps. I have another one, but found out that one only reads AC amps via the clamp. This one you can just clamp around a wire and see the amps being drawn on it without having to puncture or probe in the wires to get those readings.
Good luck.