I would like to know if a T56 6 speed would fit in C4 corvette
#1
I would like to know if a T56 6 speed would fit in C4 corvette
Hello, CorvetteForum Buddies!
I would like to know if a T56 6 speed would fit in a C4 corvette to get more gears for more speed
Post from LT1 Man
I would like to know if a T56 6 speed would fit in a C4 corvette to get more gears for more speed
Post from LT1 Man
#2
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
plenty of guys have done it if you cant do the ZF which is way stronger still a good upgrade sure they will pipe in
#3
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
It will fit with some fabrication. It won't give "more speed" though. It might give you better fuel economy....what trans do you have now? Your name "LT1 Man" indicates that you have an LT1 which would have a ZF6 -same number of gears, and similar ratios.
#4
Instructor
So I can pop one in my 96 lt1 right? It has the 4L60e right now
#5
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Since your car is an automatic (which you didn't mention before), it will require quite a lot of custom work. Unless it is a personal "challenge" to accomplish, you'd probably find better value in selling your car and getting a stick shift. You'll end up with a stronger trans, a better shifting trans, a proper fitting trans, and a stronger rear diff too.
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Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-25-2016 at 01:14 PM.
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Benny42 (12-25-2016)
#6
Instructor
No.
Since your car is an automatic (which you didn't mention before), it will require quite a lot of custom work. Unless it is a personal "challenge" to accomplish, you'd probably find better value in selling your car and getting a stick shift. You'll end up with a stronger trans, a better shifting trans, a proper fitting trans, and a stronger rear diff too.
.
Since your car is an automatic (which you didn't mention before), it will require quite a lot of custom work. Unless it is a personal "challenge" to accomplish, you'd probably find better value in selling your car and getting a stick shift. You'll end up with a stronger trans, a better shifting trans, a proper fitting trans, and a stronger rear diff too.
.
#7
Team Owner
One thing about the LT1 engine and A4 combo is that the gears in the diff are different compared to the ZF trans. Do you know what gear ration your car has now? It will more than likely be a 2.59 or an optional 2.73. Manual trans cars had a 3.54. Even with that difference, 4th gear in the auto trans will be .070 and 6th in the ZF was .50. 6th in the T56 should be close to the ZF. But top speed with the ZF was made in 5th, not 6th.
#8
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
OP: You may be able to find T56 parts easier than ZF parts, but the conversion from an A4 to a manual setup will be both time consuming and expensive. Just finding the necessary parts to convert to a manual setup can be a PITA.
One thing about the LT1 engine and A4 combo is that the gears in the diff are different compared to the ZF trans. Do you know what gear ration your car has now? It will more than likely be a 2.59 or an optional 2.73. Manual trans cars had a 3.54. Even with that difference, 4th gear in the auto trans will be .070 and 6th in the ZF was .50. 6th in the T56 should be close to the ZF. But top speed with the ZF was made in 5th, not 6th.
One thing about the LT1 engine and A4 combo is that the gears in the diff are different compared to the ZF trans. Do you know what gear ration your car has now? It will more than likely be a 2.59 or an optional 2.73. Manual trans cars had a 3.54. Even with that difference, 4th gear in the auto trans will be .070 and 6th in the ZF was .50. 6th in the T56 should be close to the ZF. But top speed with the ZF was made in 5th, not 6th.
What parts would one need for a ZF6? I've had one for 7 years now....I've put oil in it.
#9
Drifting
synchro rings can be a pita if you have bad synchros..
ZF is more complicated than the T56, and if you need to rebuild it, its going to cost.
You cant really trust just any shop with a ZF.. There are tear down procedures that if your not holding your mouth open the right way while doing them, you will fck up your tranny.
#10
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Right...but my point is, where is the burden of "parts"? OP said:
"I could have the benefits of still being able to buy T56 parts whereas I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
Who is "everyone"? What parts? Neither trans is particularly troublesome (or in need of parts)...and the ZF is even tougher than the T56. I'd say that if you keep decent oil in the thing and keep your clutch working right...you won't ever have a problem or need parts with a ZF6. IOW, there isn't an epidemic of "everyone struggling to get parts" with ZF6's. Not a meaningful reason to pick a T56 over a ZF6, IMO. If you DO need parts, ZFDoc has 'em and RSG has them too. For starters.
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"I could have the benefits of still being able to buy T56 parts whereas I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
Who is "everyone"? What parts? Neither trans is particularly troublesome (or in need of parts)...and the ZF is even tougher than the T56. I'd say that if you keep decent oil in the thing and keep your clutch working right...you won't ever have a problem or need parts with a ZF6. IOW, there isn't an epidemic of "everyone struggling to get parts" with ZF6's. Not a meaningful reason to pick a T56 over a ZF6, IMO. If you DO need parts, ZFDoc has 'em and RSG has them too. For starters.
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Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-27-2016 at 05:18 PM.
#11
Burning Brakes
Lots of bad info in this thread.
It's NOT expensive to swap from A4 to 6-Speed. The only real costly item being the trans which should be expected anyways. If you are mechanically inclined at all its not even that hard. I put a T-56 in my C4 and I love it. The ZF being stronger than the T-56 is debatable as I doubt people have tested failure points of both trannys and been able to compare the data accurately. Both the ZF and the T-56 are plenty strong and you won't have to worry about it so forget about it's strength unless you are pushing massive number.... Also the T-56 is FAR more common with the ZF bringing more money so it's easier to find and cheaper. (At least around me but even by numbers built it should be more common everywhere)
You will need an adapter bracket to adapt the C-beam to the tail of the T-56. The one I bought was nicely built and was like $150 of so.
Another issue is the shifter of the ZF sits 2" to the left of the center of the tunnel where the T-56 shifter sits in the center. Solution: Cut your shifter and move it over 2" and it will sit in the correct position. Bam, easy.
It's NOT expensive to swap from A4 to 6-Speed. The only real costly item being the trans which should be expected anyways. If you are mechanically inclined at all its not even that hard. I put a T-56 in my C4 and I love it. The ZF being stronger than the T-56 is debatable as I doubt people have tested failure points of both trannys and been able to compare the data accurately. Both the ZF and the T-56 are plenty strong and you won't have to worry about it so forget about it's strength unless you are pushing massive number.... Also the T-56 is FAR more common with the ZF bringing more money so it's easier to find and cheaper. (At least around me but even by numbers built it should be more common everywhere)
You will need an adapter bracket to adapt the C-beam to the tail of the T-56. The one I bought was nicely built and was like $150 of so.
Another issue is the shifter of the ZF sits 2" to the left of the center of the tunnel where the T-56 shifter sits in the center. Solution: Cut your shifter and move it over 2" and it will sit in the correct position. Bam, easy.
#12
Burning Brakes
Bottom line: I wouldn't factor in the strength or longevity of the trans when comparing because both don't seem to have any issues.
Also 7 years is hardly a great gauge for factoring longevity... Just saying.
#13
Burning Brakes
No.
Since your car is an automatic (which you didn't mention before), it will require quite a lot of custom work. Unless it is a personal "challenge" to accomplish, you'd probably find better value in selling your car and getting a stick shift. You'll end up with a stronger trans, a better shifting trans, a proper fitting trans, and a stronger rear diff too.
Since your car is an automatic (which you didn't mention before), it will require quite a lot of custom work. Unless it is a personal "challenge" to accomplish, you'd probably find better value in selling your car and getting a stick shift. You'll end up with a stronger trans, a better shifting trans, a proper fitting trans, and a stronger rear diff too.
There's hardly any custom work to complete a 6-speed swap... I should know, I have done it, and that was even the "wrong" tranny. You only need custom work if you refuse to buy the swap parts others have already labored over to get right like the T-56 to C-beam bracket.
#14
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Wow...that is very similar claims, if you ask me! Very similar.
The rest of my "nonsense" response? Lets review so we have our context correct, because believe it or not, context is important. The challenge of getting parts. The OP said: "I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
Where is this happening? Who is the "everyone" who is struggling?? Especially with a trans that "don't seem to have any issues"...right?
So *I* said; I've had mine for 7 years and put oil in it...to quickly give an example of "how many parts" one guy has needed for his ZF, in the last 7 years....not many.
Lets review some other context; the work involved with a swap. The OP said: "So I can pop one in my 96 lt1 right?"
Would you agree with ^that^? You can just "pop one in"? No, you can't and to tell a poster that you can would be incredibly misleading. No one said it was hard or excessively expensive (your words). All that was posted was the requirements (fab work) and benefits of the stick shift car (already done, better trans, better rear, and more).
If you're going to pitch my posts as "nonsense"...then say nearly verbatim, what I just said....well, good luck with that.
Lastly: Durability. Look at what TPI421VETTE is doing with his ZF6 (and how many parts he's needed for it, too!). Show me a STOCK T56 that will do that. Good luck with that, too.
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Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-27-2016 at 11:07 PM.
#15
Burning Brakes
That is literally, what I had just said in the above post. Lets have a look...shall we?
Wow...that is very similar claims, if you ask me! Very similar.
The rest of my "nonsense" response? Lets review so we have our context correct, because believe it or not, context is important. The challenge of getting parts. The OP said: "I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
Where is this happening? Who is the "everyone" who is struggling?? Especially with a trans that "don't seem to have any issues"...right?
So *I* said; I've had mine for 7 years and put oil in it...to quickly give an example of "how many parts" one guy has needed for his ZF, in the last 7 years....not many.
Lets review some other context; the work involved with a swap. The OP said: "So I can pop one in my 96 lt1 right?"
Would you agree with ^that^? You can just "pop one in"? No, you can't and to tell a poster that you can would be incredibly misleading. No one said it was hard or excessively expensive (your words). All that was posted was the requirements (fab work) and benefits of the stick shift car (already done, better trans, better rear, and more).
If you're going to pitch my posts as "nonsense"...then say nearly verbatim, what I just said....well, good luck with that.
Lastly: Durability. Look at what TPI421VETTE is doing with his ZF6 (and how many parts he's needed for it, too!). Show me a STOCK T56 that will do that. Good luck with that, too.
.
Wow...that is very similar claims, if you ask me! Very similar.
The rest of my "nonsense" response? Lets review so we have our context correct, because believe it or not, context is important. The challenge of getting parts. The OP said: "I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
Where is this happening? Who is the "everyone" who is struggling?? Especially with a trans that "don't seem to have any issues"...right?
So *I* said; I've had mine for 7 years and put oil in it...to quickly give an example of "how many parts" one guy has needed for his ZF, in the last 7 years....not many.
Lets review some other context; the work involved with a swap. The OP said: "So I can pop one in my 96 lt1 right?"
Would you agree with ^that^? You can just "pop one in"? No, you can't and to tell a poster that you can would be incredibly misleading. No one said it was hard or excessively expensive (your words). All that was posted was the requirements (fab work) and benefits of the stick shift car (already done, better trans, better rear, and more).
If you're going to pitch my posts as "nonsense"...then say nearly verbatim, what I just said....well, good luck with that.
Lastly: Durability. Look at what TPI421VETTE is doing with his ZF6 (and how many parts he's needed for it, too!). Show me a STOCK T56 that will do that. Good luck with that, too.
.
You sure seemed to be implying that worrying about getting parts for the ZF is not worth the time because YOUR car that you have owned for 7 years has not broke. That is nonsense. Plus I agree that breaking the ZF is unlikely BUT that was not the discussion. The discussion was on getting parts and it's sure not as easy as getting parts for a T-56.
The T-56 is a very strong tranny, sorry that your a ZF fanboy and can't accept that an "F-body tranny" is just as good as your Corvette ZF tranny... Just because TPI421vette hasn't broke his yet doesn't mean its strong enough to handle the continued abuse. Only time will tell. Doing a 5 min search brought up plenty of 9 sec T-56 cars but I couldn't confirm that it was on the factory input shaft. I know one claim was for mid 10's on the bone stock tranny. Sure not as fast as TPI421vette but what kind of HP does his car make? A 200hp car can be fast as hell where an axle twisting, tranny smashing 700hp monster could be slow. Again not a good comparison of strength.. You of all people should know that. Hell there are factory 7" 10-bolt F-body rears running 10's for a bit but don't last.
Also YOU said "it will require quite a lot of custom work" that implies that it will be a lot of work as custom parts are not always easy to fab up. Not sure how that could be interpreted otherwise...
Lets review some other context; the work involved with a swap. The OP said: "So I can pop one in my 96 lt1 right?"
Would you agree with ^that^? You can just "pop one in"? No, you can't and to tell a poster that you can would be incredibly misleading. No one said it was hard or excessively expensive (your words). All that was posted was the requirements (fab work) and benefits of the stick shift car (already done, better trans, better rear, and more).
.
Have you personally swapped a T-56 into a C4? If not I would assume you should not make statements based on 0 experience. You sure seem to know everything about everything...
#16
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
"I see everyone struggling to get parts for the ZF"
To ME...that seems like a conversation that there is some "epidemic" (my words) in getting ZF parts. Who is the "everyone"? Where? What parts? In reality, "everyone" isn't struggling to get ZF parts b/c 1. ZF's don't break much...and 2. You CAN get parts if you try. FYI, I had a hard time finding parts for my recent T56 rebuild.
Where are the T56's that will do that, stock?? Where?
* C beam adaptor
* cutting a hole for the master
*clutch/TOB/FW solution
*cutting a hole in tunnel for shifter
*shifter boot solution
*wiring/ECM changes from auto > Stick
....OT, but after that, you've got a home made, 6 speed car with a D36 and 2.xx gears.
But MAYBE the guy is a great mechanic/fabricator and can whip up the pieces lickity-split. You think that's the case so to HIM, he could just "pop one in"? The same guy that wants "more gears for speed"? You think "that guy" has got the skills to "just pop one in"? Context.
I'll admit it, I don't know everything...but I know more than you. I'll be honest that I've not swapped a T56 into a 'Vette...but I have swapped numerous trans's (T56's included) into GM vehicles -even converting auto's to T56's. Have you swapped a T56 into an LT1 'Vette and done the associated ECM/harness changes? If you have...why don't you make a very specific list that outlines the requirements to help the OP...rather than nit fuking picking the nuances of my posts? How about that?
#17
Advanced
These guys seem to have a "kit" made for 84 to 88 vette.
Check out the link - might find some info on the subject.
https://shiftsst.com/articles/cat/ge...1988-corvette/
Check out the link - might find some info on the subject.
https://shiftsst.com/articles/cat/ge...1988-corvette/
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Raidmagic (01-03-2018)
#19
Instructor
Guys I'm not even the op here haha. I just wanted to know if I could buy the cheaper easier to find (based on what I've seen) t56 is compatible to the lt1 in my auto car. Considering I don't have the money for the 1996 lt4 already manual corvette I wanted to make my own from a 96 lt1. Built not bought foos. Peace
#20
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
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Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-28-2016 at 06:41 PM.