PatternDayTrader

Lol ... I sure can.

PatternDayTrader

Love this plan. Love it. Who else is onboard for this ?

aklim

What part of trying to make a square pin fit snugly in a round hole does not pop out at you? Go buy yourself a junked one, cut it and see what fits and how crazy the runners look. Bring it to the tuner and give them a laugh. Tell them you want to build an engine AROUND the intake and it has to be cheap and good for a "Bazinga". You are going need the EIGHT figure salary to get what you want and still have money for regular stuff if you want to be UNREALISTIC.

Define "worth". Ease and cost vs gains and it won't until you have money to burn.

Again, you seem to want to restrict the upper and increase the lower. Perhaps you can ask some Nascar car engineers. They work with restrictor plates.

Deep down, you don't even have a budget.

aklim

Sure, why not. Maybe a prerequisite for graduation will be Reality 101

Phoenix'97

That is what the Vortec base for the TPI can be used for. Yes, it too has it's problems since the runners on the vortec are different than the LT1 but it sure don't have circles to deal with.


http://www.weinlemotorsports.com/Cus...take-Manifolds

Give me the quotes!


Not right now. I told you, three years or so. Be patient and stop hating. There is research to be done and I am not pulling the trigger on it just yet.

PatternDayTrader

I assure you the op knows exactly how unrealistic the proposed ideas are. He is hoping to make the absurd seem real. Don't be the guy who falls for a false paradox, its really just absurd.

aklim

How do you build a home? Do you get the architect to draw plans or do you figure out what you have to spend? I start with deciding how much to spend first then figure out how much housing can be afforded. I have 200k to spend, I know that the property costs 50k so I know that I can afford a 1500 square foot home with average lighting and plumbing. I don't start with what I want and get an architect to design the house I want and then try make the budget somehow work. I surely don't design the house around the front door.

aklim

Hence the redicule. When you do not even know what you are willing to spend, well... Says a lot about the education system, if he is even in an accredited college

pologreen1

Oh hey that is a great Idea, that way you can add as much spacer as your hood allows and you get longer cleaner better chance of not messing with the over all set up too much. Unlike destroying a design in the hopes it will work, you just add runner length to a simple intake that works. ALMOST like an HSR and all you do is cut the plenum off and make it taller.

Cheaper, better, faster way to achieve what you want, with far less variables. you might not even need Jesse James to do it for you.

The LTR idea was fun while it lasted 3 weeks.

BTW yes it's me replying to myself... I know some detectives out there might think I used a wrong "account"

Phoenix'97

I suppose I can get away with this but won't the end result be, at best, mid-length runners? The whole goal here is to achieve the low end torque that the TPI style intake was achieving. Yes, I need to factor in breathing, I realize that now and especially to make room for a day when I might stroke the motor. I am going to explore what options I have with these custom intake businesses. I definitely need a mock-up of an LT1 manifold bottom and from that, grafting the TPI plenum onto it and having larger capacity runners, same dimensions as the First, welded into place on both pieces. This should eliminate any chances of air leaks while giving me a direct bolt-on intake to the specifications that I seek, and with the same hook-ups for emissions and PCV systems as on the LT1 intake. It seems like a good plan, especially if these guys flow test for double the money.

GREGGPENN

Uhhh...No you don't. Gears = more torque down low...runs out of steam at lower speed. Your current intake is a great match for higher gears. You've learned hardly anything.

Ah, Ah, Ah.... Stop right there! You're getting it!

Phoenix'97

You seem to have forgotten, I do not want to change my gears to something "higher" in terms of 3.75 or 4.11. It would be stupid to go any lower than my current stock rear axle ratio. So, with this mandate of mine, the TPI intake fits the build perfectly, I just need to have it customized to fit in my engine bay, which it will, and which it won't lose runner length and even have an increase in runner width. If whatever company I choose is willing to utilize a sample stock TPI that I will bring them and use the intake plenum with part of the upper portion of the base and graft this to a fabricated base that is a direct bolt on for the LT1 heads and which can mount the EGR pipe/valve, and PCV systems on similar areas of base or intake plenum rear, this "Frankenstein" intake should work alright!

aklim

And it will be cheap and can support other motor configurations, assuming it can even be physically done. Is there a Victoria Secret Supermodel option?

GREGGPENN

Hey, either you want more torque or you don't. Gears would give it to you in a much wider rpm range AND COST LESS....AND BE MUCH EASIER TO ACCOMPLISH!

I would even suggest you'd probably like how it drove ON THE HWY IN 6TH even better. No shifting going up hills.

If you are willing to spend money on expensive fuel, lowering an engine, custom fabbing an intake, etc...etc...etc... ANY extra fuel used on the hwy by having lower gearing is a no-brainer, fool-proof, won't necessarily need retuning, won't risk odd rpm vibrations/phenomenon, etc...

Don't talk about not being stupid when you're actually considering it in other ways. Just talk about the pros/cons AND listen to yourself....as if you are someone else hearing it for the first time.

Phoenix'97

Yes, a lower gear ratio at 3.75 and 4.11 would give me more torque. The only problem, my car would now be operating at higher RPM ranges than would be considered economical, and my girl gets pretty noisy past 2000 RPM. Swapping out the rear gear ratio is not going to happen. To nearly replicate the effect of a lower gear ratio, better lower end torque is the answer. Again, I want to try a TPI intake on my car but instead of trying to dissuade me, give me information as to why this is not such a good idea.

Well, with more demand Iso-Butanol will lower in price as demand increases. I aim to help make that happen and the plus side of using Iso-Butanol will result in having a very clean motor with hardly any more carbon build-up from switching over to this alcohol fuel, and from better operational efficiency I can see a marginal fuel economy increase, and not to mention the major greenhouse gas from my exhaust will be Carbon Dioxide, the same gas we all exhale and the same gas plants use for photosynthesis.

You mention odd rpm vibrations and phenomenon. Well Greg, don't leave me hanging, please explain!

pologreen1

There is something to be said about plenum volume too I think. So your lt1 can be stretched how tall, and how wide under your hood?

Either way, it's a lot cheaper to cut and weld that intake up than all this other stuff. So can you stretch it 4 inches taller and the plenum another 4-6+ wider? I would imagine that would be looking like a t ram at that point.

I don't know how to design an intake so I'm throwing this junk out there for fun, not fact, BUT I know my first route would be to mod the lt1 intake before trying to put an L98 intake on my car. I have had l98 intakes. The suck, but not good enough to make much more power than the lt1.

Phoenix'97

Well, fact or not, I appreciate the idea. My LT1 intake is 6 inches tall and from there I have at most 2 and 1/2 inches before I am hitting the metal cowl over the last 1/3 of the rear of the intake. Now, I really don't have a desire to maintain the higher end flow of my LT1 intake as it is only focused on high RPM power and will still lack lower RPM power, which is what the TPI intake does, they are polar opposites. This is why, with my logic, I desire to have a TPI styled intake on my motor, but it needs to be brought down to size, reduced from 9 1/2 inches tall at it's highest to at least 7 1/2 inches tall to permit install on the motor while it is in the engine bay. I have to remove my strut tower brace and even modify that too to clear the TPI intake plenum.

I am almost confident that it will fit and it can still maintain it's long runners while having enlarged runners to the size of the First TPI intake, and still clear the valve covers on my car! I have to try, but again, if anyone has experienced "odd rpm vibrations and phenomenon" like greggpenn has mentioned, let me know! Aside from what seems like jokes, I find it hard to believe that I can't swap on a well made TPI style intake onto my LT1 and have it run okay. I don't hear of problems with LT1 intake swaps onto L98 motors or even LS1 guys swapping the LS6 intake onto their motor.

pologreen1

There is no problem with l98 to lt1. it's an improvement.

The problem with you are doing is you are engineering something with no ability to test it other than put it on and drive it.

Cutting the LTR stuff as you were talking about means it's not going to work like LTR anymore. As mentioned you can barely tell the difference between the 2 unless at a race track, so this is a lot of work for hopes.

The fact you said you had this car 10 years says you have seen and read about intakes before.

Common logic says you change the characteristics of something you change ho wit operates.

Measuring and almost confident won't make it fit. That is how I ended up with a hood scoop.

Say the intake is awesome? How is the puny 350 going to handle it? You can easily screw this up, like guys throwing huge carbs or intakes on a 327/ 350 or huge heads. Does not mean more power.

Phoenix'97

I have since reconsidered cutting or reducing the length of the long runners. For a difference in height of two inches, if this can be achieved with grafting and shuffling components around, for a difference of two inches, I ask, is there is no way to maintain the length of the TPI runners, to arch them out a tad more to get them to fit the new intake manifold and plenum that stand at 7 1/2 inches tall?! Yeah, it is a gamble, but I am willing to give it a try when no one else will. The LT1 is a 350 with reverse flow cooling and higher compression. How much more different is it from the L98 and how much more different can we expect this custom TPI intake to behave with the changes required for a two inch reduction in height and a slightly more curvy long runner? Will this change be noticeable? Will this change hurt performance any? That has yet to be seen but I would love to have some simulation of it...

There has to be a way to give me what I want. I am basing this off of Ken's TPI intake, the performance I seek is that of the First TPI intake, it still maintains low end torque around 2000 RPM and it keeps on going until 5000 or 5500 RPM. It breathes much better than the stock TPI and it is better designed for a 350 motor. This is perfect for my needs but how to make the same intake for an LT1 given the height restriction of my engine bay.

GREGGPENN

If you've ever flipped the air filter on an old V8, you know it alters sound. If you've ever swapped mufflers, you know it alters sound. I've had several combinations of motor, intake, mufflers, and exhaust on my car so I know everything sounds different.

The sidepipe system I have consists of extra curves to accommodate side exits, stock converters etc... I hogged the intake as much as I could considering the differences in tube diameter (due to restrictions in mounting boss locations...on the end tubes).

I've heard the differences in stock manifolds. I've heard the difference in non-restricted sidepipes versus the same system "muffled". I've heard the difference with and without converters. I've heard the difference in evenly balanced intakes versus my "home-made" version targeted toward feeding a 383 motor.

Overall, I'm happy with the results (and explained why in a recent post about the prospect of long runner intakes on LTx engines). But, that doesn't mean I wonder about the sound, smoothness, and dyno results of something designed by an engineer.

In the range where the intake limits performance of the engine (4-4.5k rpms), I think the harmonics could be better. Some would call it sound, vibration, or whatever. People describe things differently. Partially, it's because sound CAN BE vibration. In the case of my sidepipe system, it FINALLY sounds best WITHOUT the use of a muffler or converter (in the belly). Note: I DO have bullet converters off the headers. I tried a couple of components in the belly for add'l sound abatement.

What did I find out? It wasn't really the VOLUME of sound that I didn't like. It was the QUALITY. And, building something custom opens the distinct possibility you won't perceive the results as ideal.

Dude....You're already complaining about the sound of your car at 2k rpms. Take my advice and swap gearing.

I looked and see you have the same/similar ratios as my ZF6. On the hwy at 70mph, I'm turning 1400 rpms with 3.33 gears. You're probably at 1450rpms. With 3.73 gears, you gain nearly 10% torque everywhere. Even with 4.11 gears, you gain 20%. And, you're still turning 1750rpms (or there about). You'd stay below that 2k rpm threshold AND you risk much less.

I'm telling you, more torque is more power (though they don't call it the same when not measured in time constraints). More power means you'll use more fuel. Either go for the fun...Or build something friendly for the environment. Consider electric. Consider something built by engineers and optimized. Or...just build something to get the most torque (or horsepower) since THAT'S what you really want to make you smile from ear-to-ear.

If you want something radical, a longtube intake on a stock LT1 isn't going to make the The York Times. And, I'm telling you, there is more than one thing that can go wrong.

Polo thinks it's the cheaper route. If you start with a large-tube intake, I tend to disagree. Back in 2010, it cost a reasonable chunk just to buy the large base and runners. That doesn't count having someone alter them for you.

Plus, it doesn't sound like you'd be happy with a "cheap" intake. I wouldn't either. You saw the pics of my motor.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind have a sequential injection setup with individual velocity stacks for each cylinder. It might not be practical, but neither are my sidepipes. Some times you want what you want.

If you REALLY want a large-tube long-runner intake, see if Ken makes one. The cut/change the hood in whatever way you need to -- to make it work. Or...give up on that idea and get your torque another way. From my experience, I just see too much downside from hacking up an intake to make it shorter.

There is (was) a "chopped" version of the HSR awhile back. I know a guy running it. He wasn't thrilled at the workmanship or performance. When it comes to intakes, plenum size, runner-length and other considerations come into play. When it comes to FACTORY intakes, they also consider sound, creature comfort, and you don't have to work that something unexpected might happen.

That's what I mean by what I posted. It's also why I recommend again what you want to do...if you don't want to use something untried/untested. Though you SEEM to think outside the box, consider there are risks in ignoring where people try to lead you.