Was the ZR-1 really worth the price of 2 corvettes?
11-20-2017, 02:51 PM
#121
Tech Contributor
LOL and the Camaro would only turn hard in one direction for the same reason
11-20-2017, 08:19 PM
#124
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CA1992C4 (11-20-2017)
11-20-2017, 08:27 PM
#125
Safety Car
1) you live at a moderate to high elevation and that takes enough punch away from the LT5 to make it only a little more powerful than an elevation weakened sbc. Also a ZR-1 is like 3480 lbs dry weight (and that's if you have an early car-the newest ones are heavier).
2) the other thing is that these cars are all over the place as far as individual performance. The cam timing variations and high mileage wear would seem to make a car a good one or a bad one imo. You drive a good one, and it is just torque everywhere compared to an LT1.
Then again, I got used to bolt-on lightly modded power- LT5's in the 350-390rwhp range. Stockers were maybe closer to 315-320 rwhp...there's 20 hp just in catback and more ignition timing and it is almost rare to see a zr-1 without a chip.
11-20-2017, 08:35 PM
#126
The 415 package looks about $20,000-$21,000 labor depending on cams pricing. I could be wrong though.
One thing I will give it is the fact with the same comparable mods done to a standard sbc you will not get the same results if those numbers are accurate.
If the motor could put out 800+hp n/a I would buy one, but TQ numbers are a question too. I realize that sounds crazy, but I am comparing this to a large CI SBC.
Does anyone know the highest HP n/a zr1?
11-21-2017, 09:07 AM
#129
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
a little late to the reply, but I think it is two things.
1) you live at a moderate to high elevation and that takes enough punch away from the LT5 to make it only a little more powerful than an elevation weakened sbc. Also a ZR-1 is like 3480 lbs dry weight (and that's if you have an early car-the newest ones are heavier).
2) the other thing is that these cars are all over the place as far as individual performance. The cam timing variations and high mileage wear would seem to make a car a good one or a bad one imo. You drive a good one, and it is just torque everywhere compared to an LT1.
1) you live at a moderate to high elevation and that takes enough punch away from the LT5 to make it only a little more powerful than an elevation weakened sbc. Also a ZR-1 is like 3480 lbs dry weight (and that's if you have an early car-the newest ones are heavier).
2) the other thing is that these cars are all over the place as far as individual performance. The cam timing variations and high mileage wear would seem to make a car a good one or a bad one imo. You drive a good one, and it is just torque everywhere compared to an LT1.
-Tom
12-04-2017, 11:36 AM
#131
Is the ZR-1 worth it? Some points:
- I love how people point to the 75HP difference that existed only in 1992 as a reason to think the ZR-1 is not worth the cost bump. Put another way, it is a 25% HP bump - AT WORST.
1990 - 125HP - 50% HP jump
1991 - 125HP - 50% HP jumpt
1992 - 75HP - 25% HP jump
1993 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
1994 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
1995 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
Any other vehicle back then or today that would have that percentage of HP bump over a base model would EASILY drive a $30K price tag increase
Other factors:
- The LT5 is easily the best looking Corvette engine ever made (and I also have 67 435HP couple). Open up the hood of the ZR-1 to show the LT5 is almost guaranteed to bring more onlookers than any other Corvette - even the C2s.
- The ZR-1 with the wider read end and more aggressive tires looks meaner than the base LT1 ( which has something of a squeezed look when you place the two side by side - but that is just personal opinion)
- The ZR-1 is by one measure still the fastest production car ever made
- The LT5 engine durability far exceeds anything from its time (including the SBC which had quality issues that the LT5 never experienced)
- Most every guide to the most significant Corvettes ever made includes the ZR-1 - and usually in second place after the 63 SWC.
- The sound and feel of the LT5 at 7000 is almost worth the price of admission by itself. By comparison, the L98 and even the LT1 run out of breath way to soon.
- The ZR-1 re-introduced the motoring world to a true high performance no compromises sports car with the Corvette nameplate (last seen in 1971 with the solid lifter big block LS6). It is the basis for the wonderful set of follow on high performance Corvettes like the C5 Z06, the C6 Z06 and ZR1, the C7 Z06 and the upcoming the C7 ZR1. The C4 ZR-1 laid that groundwork and deserves its place as a significant historical Corvette - something the L98 or LT1 C4s could never lay claim to.
- The real world performance potential is not realized for most vehicles on the road today - but the thrill of that long onramp with the LT5 is one that when experienced will want to be repeated over and over. In other words, there are plenty of real world opportunities to use what the LT5 has to offer.
There are plenty of ways to rationalize not wanting to buy a ZR-1. But do not pretend that the objective and subjective differences of the ZR-1 to the LT1 or L98 cars is not significant enough to justify both its price differential and its place in Corvette history.
- I love how people point to the 75HP difference that existed only in 1992 as a reason to think the ZR-1 is not worth the cost bump. Put another way, it is a 25% HP bump - AT WORST.
1990 - 125HP - 50% HP jump
1991 - 125HP - 50% HP jumpt
1992 - 75HP - 25% HP jump
1993 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
1994 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
1995 - 105HP - 35% HP jump
Any other vehicle back then or today that would have that percentage of HP bump over a base model would EASILY drive a $30K price tag increase
Other factors:
- The LT5 is easily the best looking Corvette engine ever made (and I also have 67 435HP couple). Open up the hood of the ZR-1 to show the LT5 is almost guaranteed to bring more onlookers than any other Corvette - even the C2s.
- The ZR-1 with the wider read end and more aggressive tires looks meaner than the base LT1 ( which has something of a squeezed look when you place the two side by side - but that is just personal opinion)
- The ZR-1 is by one measure still the fastest production car ever made
- The LT5 engine durability far exceeds anything from its time (including the SBC which had quality issues that the LT5 never experienced)
- Most every guide to the most significant Corvettes ever made includes the ZR-1 - and usually in second place after the 63 SWC.
- The sound and feel of the LT5 at 7000 is almost worth the price of admission by itself. By comparison, the L98 and even the LT1 run out of breath way to soon.
- The ZR-1 re-introduced the motoring world to a true high performance no compromises sports car with the Corvette nameplate (last seen in 1971 with the solid lifter big block LS6). It is the basis for the wonderful set of follow on high performance Corvettes like the C5 Z06, the C6 Z06 and ZR1, the C7 Z06 and the upcoming the C7 ZR1. The C4 ZR-1 laid that groundwork and deserves its place as a significant historical Corvette - something the L98 or LT1 C4s could never lay claim to.
- The real world performance potential is not realized for most vehicles on the road today - but the thrill of that long onramp with the LT5 is one that when experienced will want to be repeated over and over. In other words, there are plenty of real world opportunities to use what the LT5 has to offer.
There are plenty of ways to rationalize not wanting to buy a ZR-1. But do not pretend that the objective and subjective differences of the ZR-1 to the LT1 or L98 cars is not significant enough to justify both its price differential and its place in Corvette history.
While the ZR-1 was an awesome car and I think it may have had more respect (relatively speaking) than today's ZR1, the LT-1 was in fact what killed off the ZR-1. It was not worth the extra price. But don't take peoples opinions as the official gauge.
Lets use facts:
You paid almost 100% more but only got 25%-35% more power. Sales of the ZR-1 immediately plummeted after the LT-1 Corvette came out in 1992. Sales fell nearly 75% that year from over 2k to
about 500 despite total Corvette sales unchanged at about 20k.
Total Corvette production actually increased after the LT1 came out for the next few years while ZR-1 production decreased. I think the production data shows people did not think the extra power was enough to justify the huge price increase. Even with the power boost, ZR-1 sales declined in 1993. I think its hard to tell the difference between the 90s ZR-1 and base Corvette. Today you have spoilers, grills, bigger wheels, rear quarter vent colors and rear taillight colors that differentiate different models. You didn't have these differences with the 90s ZR-1.
See the production stats below:
ZR-1 production
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Inform...ersColors.aspx
Corvette Production
http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2010...ction-numbers/
On the contrary, an example of where you pay more and get more in % terms is the Z06 LT4 vs Stingray LT1. You pay about 20k more or 33% but you get 41% more power. On a $ price per hp, the Z06 is the deal vs ZR1, and Stingray/GS.
Last edited by corvette72778; 12-04-2017 at 11:44 AM.
12-04-2017, 03:21 PM
#132
Race Director
The simple fact is you can have a ZR-1 or you can have a Corvette. This thread had pretty much run it’s course
12-04-2017, 04:13 PM
#133
https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...ice-entry-car/
Last edited by corvette72778; 12-04-2017 at 04:14 PM.
12-04-2017, 04:25 PM
#134
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Nice..."article" Bradley. 
Another worthless 'Vette "article" posted by another wannabe "author". Just what we need. 
Nearly every point Bradley stated as fact, has been rebutted in this thread...but he didn't acknowledge those points. FAKE NEWS, Bradley!
What was all the fuss about? -Bradley asks. It was about the ZR-1, a Corvette, being a World beater in 1990. It was about the pedigree of engine, what it could do and many other things. By '92 though, some of those things had changed a lot and some things had diminished. So was it worth twice the price by '92? The cases have been made in this thread, but the sales numbers seem to tell the story.
Another worthless 'Vette "article" posted by another wannabe "author". Just what we need. Nearly every point Bradley stated as fact, has been rebutted in this thread...but he didn't acknowledge those points. FAKE NEWS, Bradley!
What was all the fuss about? -Bradley asks. It was about the ZR-1, a Corvette, being a World beater in 1990. It was about the pedigree of engine, what it could do and many other things. By '92 though, some of those things had changed a lot and some things had diminished. So was it worth twice the price by '92? The cases have been made in this thread, but the sales numbers seem to tell the story.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-04-2017 at 04:29 PM.
12-04-2017, 04:59 PM
#135
Zen Vet Master Level VII
12-04-2017, 05:07 PM
#136
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
TRUE!
I was actually coming back to edit my post for that very point...but you beat me to it. The best part of the article was the part about Boris!
I was actually coming back to edit my post for that very point...but you beat me to it. The best part of the article was the part about Boris!
Are you kidding me? This is the funniest thing yet. Is penix really an editor here?
12-04-2017, 11:15 PM
#138
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AES provided a few closed deck 441 LT5 blocks and a 427 too. PETE Polatsidis and Bob Gillig built those motors which run in the low 10s over 133 mph. Best part is, they are all street driven - one was a DD in Chicogo traffic for some years! (Pete's stock bottom LT5 has run an 11.04 at Beach Bend in Bowling Green. He's now experimenting with a closed deck 390 - a winter project.)
Marc Haibeck also built a 441 open deck LT5 using a highly modified block. It is very successful.
Marc Haibeck also built a 441 open deck LT5 using a highly modified block. It is very successful.
