GS vs the ZR1
01-31-2018, 10:20 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Didn't meet a Keith, but a David (C4Fanatic), and if I remember correctly he drove the car across country out here (still had the old plates, and Kansas sounds about right). It was just a few months before I bought my '94. Nice guy, showed me around the car and had plenty stories, including how it was originally a white on grey Z, road trips its been on and what mods had been done.
Oh, and when he drove off the thing was one of the best sounding cars at the show. Haha.
02-01-2018, 09:39 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
The problem with the GS is that the powertrain is the exact same one that is in my base (LT-4) coupe.
The ZR-1 had a unique engine, which makes it a truly unique car.
To me, the GS is paint, glue-on flairs, and larger rear tires.
The ZR-1 has cache' that the GS lacks.
I look at a "GS" on the street and ask "is it a clone?"
I lift the hood on a ZR-1 and all questions are answered.
The ZR-1 had a unique engine, which makes it a truly unique car.
To me, the GS is paint, glue-on flairs, and larger rear tires.
The ZR-1 has cache' that the GS lacks.
I look at a "GS" on the street and ask "is it a clone?"
I lift the hood on a ZR-1 and all questions are answered.
For the similarities between the GS and other LT4 cars I don't understand the crazy pricing on the GS. I also don't care for the stick on flares. To me they look cheap.
Yes I know that they only made 1000 of the GS and had a separate serial # sequence. There are a few other changes like the stitching on the seat headrests and the powder coated calipers.
The CE LT4's seem even more similar to the GS than the base cars because they also have the seat headrest stitching and the powder coated calipers. There were only about 2000 of the CE LT4 cars, so they are quite limited also.
The ZR1 is unique in a lot of ways. The most obvious is the LT5. It is a great engine and has the "WOW" look to it. The wider body is unique and most people don't even notice it, but it also makes the ZR1 special.
02-01-2018, 09:50 AM
#43
Racer
I agree with just about everything that has already been said, and do think that preferences generally come down to what you are looking for out of the car.
Although the Callaway cars received their modifications after leaving Bowling Green, and the OP specifically was interested in the GS vs ZR-1 comparison, I think that they should not be dismissed so quickly. They should have a place in this discussion and be considered by other potential buyers. They were ordered through the dealerships with the B2K RPO and carried a full GM warranty, so they weren't just modified by your local tuner and set loose on the street. Close enough to "factory", in my opinion.
When I think about all the things buying one of these three special C4s (GS, ZR-1, Callaway) provides you over a base C4 - which is a fine car and a true performance bargain - and the aspects of ownership that might nudge you in one direction or the other, here's what I think about:
Recognition: If you want to stand out from the crowd and for your car to be instantly recognized as something special or unique, then the GS or a Callaway (with the Aerobody option) is the way to go. My guess is that every Corvette owner recognizes the GS as a limited edition (even if they don't know that it's a tribute to the glorious GS racers). The paint scheme is striking and beautiful. It just flat out gets noticed. Love or hate the flares on the coupes, the 11" rears look right on a C4 and the A Mold is a beautiful wheel in black or chrome to compliment the model. Aerobody Callaways are, in my opinion some of the most beautiful C4s ever produced, and will get attention. However, you'll get 100x more questions about the body kit than you will about the rest of the package. Most won't know the first thing about a Callaway. ZR-1s fly completely under the radar and are usually only recognized as something special by those who know about the history of the car (which is a surprisingly low number of Corvette owners, even C4 owners) or if you have your hood up. But when the hood is up, it's a vision of beauty - as long as the original finish hasn't darkened to a battleship grey. If it has, it's still the most beautiful motor of the three, and maybe in Corvette history. To 95% of people, a ZR-1 is just another C4 and they won't give you a second glance...
Performance: The ZR-1 and Callaway come out on top in this category, although they get there in very different ways. Do you want high compression, high revving power through 7000+ rpm or do you want gobs of torque and the whoosh of those turbos spooling up and planting you into the drivers seat? I couldn't decide, so I bought one of each. The GS gives you an upgrade over the LT1, but as was said before... it's the same engine as any '96 with the LT4 option and falls a little short when compared to the other two.
Exclusivity: All three cars give you this to varying degrees, and all truly are special regardless of the numbers. There were just under 7000 ZR-1s built over a six year period (a little over 1000 per year, with almost half being '90s and production tapering off through the end of the run in '95). There were 1000 GSs built in '96. There were just over 500 Callaway Twin Turbo cars built over a five year period. All have their unique RPOs (except for the Callaway cars that were sent from dealerships rather than ordered with the B2K option), and the GS and ZR-1s have unique identifiers in the VINs. If you must have a "1 of xx" serial number, go with a GS or a Callaway since both will give you one of those. If you have a ZR-1, you have to just reference your car based on the last four of the unique VIN. Owners of each of these cars are passionate about their cars and very supportive of each other and the cars.
Significance to Corvette History: I think that the ZR-1 edges the other two out in this category. The engine was a remarkable leap forward in it's time and set the journalistic world on fire while vaulting the Corvette into the same league as Europe's finest - and at a bargain price. It was and is the "King of the Hill" and holds legendary status. Callaway performed some amazing engineering that you can appreciate every time you get behind the wheel, but I think that they will always be looked at as being the product of a tuner. The GS is a tribute to another legend, but didn't really do anything to advance the marque except give us a gorgeous appearance to drool over.
Maintenance: The GS wins here, especially if you don't like to turn wrenches and don't DIY very well. With the standard LT4, you should be able to take the car into any mechanic and get work done. The ZR-1 and Callaway are more demanding when it comes to either doing the work yourself (albeit with fantastic support from other owners) or getting it to a fewer number of specialty shops to handle any serious maintenance issues. The fear of parts for the ZR-1 are WAY overblown, with several providers stepping in to service the market, and I think that all three will suffer from limited suppliers in the future. Callaway provides great customer service and stocks most - if not all - the Callaway-specific parts you would need.
Body style: If you have your heart set on a convertible, then the ZR-1 is not an option (all were coupes). Supply of both GS and Callaway convertibles are low - in the 100s for each - but available. If you definitely want the wide ZR-1 rear, neither of the other two will give you that. Callaway gives you the option of coupe, convertible, stock body, Aerobody, and they did some custom paint and interior work to some cars so you do have some non-factory options in that regard.
Transmission: If you need to have an automatic, then the ZR-1 is (again) not an option. Neither is the GS (as I just learned today). Unless, you find one of the handful that have been converted to automatics. You can get a Callaway with an automatic, and not be judged too harshly. I know that last part from experience.
Price: Entrance fees to join any of these clubs will be higher than general admission C4 prices - and for good reasons. On average, I would argue that GS prices are highest, with Callaway coming in slightly below (for non-Aerobody cars; the Aerobody cars will usually be more expensive and meet or exceed the cost of a GS), and the ZR-1 bringing up the rear. I attribute this to the fact that the ZR-1 just doesn't differentiate itself from the base car enough for the unknowing public to recognize it as anything special, as well as the false rumors of the unavailability of parts. When it comes to super low mile cars, I think that it becomes harder to generalize the prices, but all three will take a large chuck out of your retirement fund. Some of the best money you will ever spend, though.
So, the car for you is the one that best meets YOUR list of desires. The best car for you may not be the best for your neighbor, so there is no sense in hating on any of them. They are all awesome cars and poised to appreciate in the future (if that is something else that you are looking for) if properly maintained. The great thing is that we have all three options to choose from. Personally, I'd love to add a GS to my garage and round out the collection one day, and maybe someday I will pull the trigger on one. I have to confess that I've driven all three and prefer the ZR-1 and Callaway for the historical and performance aspects.
Cheers,
Scott
Although the Callaway cars received their modifications after leaving Bowling Green, and the OP specifically was interested in the GS vs ZR-1 comparison, I think that they should not be dismissed so quickly. They should have a place in this discussion and be considered by other potential buyers. They were ordered through the dealerships with the B2K RPO and carried a full GM warranty, so they weren't just modified by your local tuner and set loose on the street. Close enough to "factory", in my opinion.
When I think about all the things buying one of these three special C4s (GS, ZR-1, Callaway) provides you over a base C4 - which is a fine car and a true performance bargain - and the aspects of ownership that might nudge you in one direction or the other, here's what I think about:
Recognition: If you want to stand out from the crowd and for your car to be instantly recognized as something special or unique, then the GS or a Callaway (with the Aerobody option) is the way to go. My guess is that every Corvette owner recognizes the GS as a limited edition (even if they don't know that it's a tribute to the glorious GS racers). The paint scheme is striking and beautiful. It just flat out gets noticed. Love or hate the flares on the coupes, the 11" rears look right on a C4 and the A Mold is a beautiful wheel in black or chrome to compliment the model. Aerobody Callaways are, in my opinion some of the most beautiful C4s ever produced, and will get attention. However, you'll get 100x more questions about the body kit than you will about the rest of the package. Most won't know the first thing about a Callaway. ZR-1s fly completely under the radar and are usually only recognized as something special by those who know about the history of the car (which is a surprisingly low number of Corvette owners, even C4 owners) or if you have your hood up. But when the hood is up, it's a vision of beauty - as long as the original finish hasn't darkened to a battleship grey. If it has, it's still the most beautiful motor of the three, and maybe in Corvette history. To 95% of people, a ZR-1 is just another C4 and they won't give you a second glance...
Performance: The ZR-1 and Callaway come out on top in this category, although they get there in very different ways. Do you want high compression, high revving power through 7000+ rpm or do you want gobs of torque and the whoosh of those turbos spooling up and planting you into the drivers seat? I couldn't decide, so I bought one of each. The GS gives you an upgrade over the LT1, but as was said before... it's the same engine as any '96 with the LT4 option and falls a little short when compared to the other two.
Exclusivity: All three cars give you this to varying degrees, and all truly are special regardless of the numbers. There were just under 7000 ZR-1s built over a six year period (a little over 1000 per year, with almost half being '90s and production tapering off through the end of the run in '95). There were 1000 GSs built in '96. There were just over 500 Callaway Twin Turbo cars built over a five year period. All have their unique RPOs (except for the Callaway cars that were sent from dealerships rather than ordered with the B2K option), and the GS and ZR-1s have unique identifiers in the VINs. If you must have a "1 of xx" serial number, go with a GS or a Callaway since both will give you one of those. If you have a ZR-1, you have to just reference your car based on the last four of the unique VIN. Owners of each of these cars are passionate about their cars and very supportive of each other and the cars.
Significance to Corvette History: I think that the ZR-1 edges the other two out in this category. The engine was a remarkable leap forward in it's time and set the journalistic world on fire while vaulting the Corvette into the same league as Europe's finest - and at a bargain price. It was and is the "King of the Hill" and holds legendary status. Callaway performed some amazing engineering that you can appreciate every time you get behind the wheel, but I think that they will always be looked at as being the product of a tuner. The GS is a tribute to another legend, but didn't really do anything to advance the marque except give us a gorgeous appearance to drool over.
Maintenance: The GS wins here, especially if you don't like to turn wrenches and don't DIY very well. With the standard LT4, you should be able to take the car into any mechanic and get work done. The ZR-1 and Callaway are more demanding when it comes to either doing the work yourself (albeit with fantastic support from other owners) or getting it to a fewer number of specialty shops to handle any serious maintenance issues. The fear of parts for the ZR-1 are WAY overblown, with several providers stepping in to service the market, and I think that all three will suffer from limited suppliers in the future. Callaway provides great customer service and stocks most - if not all - the Callaway-specific parts you would need.
Body style: If you have your heart set on a convertible, then the ZR-1 is not an option (all were coupes). Supply of both GS and Callaway convertibles are low - in the 100s for each - but available. If you definitely want the wide ZR-1 rear, neither of the other two will give you that. Callaway gives you the option of coupe, convertible, stock body, Aerobody, and they did some custom paint and interior work to some cars so you do have some non-factory options in that regard.
Transmission: If you need to have an automatic, then the ZR-1 is (again) not an option. Neither is the GS (as I just learned today). Unless, you find one of the handful that have been converted to automatics. You can get a Callaway with an automatic, and not be judged too harshly. I know that last part from experience.
Price: Entrance fees to join any of these clubs will be higher than general admission C4 prices - and for good reasons. On average, I would argue that GS prices are highest, with Callaway coming in slightly below (for non-Aerobody cars; the Aerobody cars will usually be more expensive and meet or exceed the cost of a GS), and the ZR-1 bringing up the rear. I attribute this to the fact that the ZR-1 just doesn't differentiate itself from the base car enough for the unknowing public to recognize it as anything special, as well as the false rumors of the unavailability of parts. When it comes to super low mile cars, I think that it becomes harder to generalize the prices, but all three will take a large chuck out of your retirement fund. Some of the best money you will ever spend, though.
So, the car for you is the one that best meets YOUR list of desires. The best car for you may not be the best for your neighbor, so there is no sense in hating on any of them. They are all awesome cars and poised to appreciate in the future (if that is something else that you are looking for) if properly maintained. The great thing is that we have all three options to choose from. Personally, I'd love to add a GS to my garage and round out the collection one day, and maybe someday I will pull the trigger on one. I have to confess that I've driven all three and prefer the ZR-1 and Callaway for the historical and performance aspects.
Cheers,
Scott
Last edited by Arctic91; 02-01-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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02-01-2018, 10:00 AM
#44
Race Director
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2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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02-01-2018, 11:51 AM
#45
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Transmission: If you need to have an automatic, then the ZR-1 is (again) not an option. Unless, you find one of the handful that have been converted to autos. You can find both of the others with automatics, and not be judged too harshly. I know that last part from experience.
They did the CE.
Last edited by rocco16; 02-01-2018 at 11:52 AM.
02-01-2018, 06:18 PM
#47
Team Owner
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Co-winner 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
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02-01-2018, 06:51 PM
#48
Melting Slicks
The choice for me was easy in part because I am fortunate enough to be able to afford newer cars im addition to my GS that make both the LT4 and LT5 feel like slugs. The GS is a beautiful car that checks every box for me including my nostalgic side (23 when the GS came out)
Arguing which is better is silly as both have their own positive attributes... for some the exclusivity of the only 4 cam Corvette wins while others like me are drawn to the looks of the GS. Personally I have never liked the look of the wide rear fascia of the ZR1 but different strokes for different folks
What isn't debatable is that we are at 20+ years in and the GS has by a wide margin held its value at a much higher level than the ZR1 which in turn means that in the collector car world a ZR1 might be one of the best bang for the buck buys out there.... Hell, There are nice low mile IROCs selling for equal or more than nice ZR1s and GS's... That is insane.
At the end of the day we should appreciate each model for what they were/are and root for each as time goes by... As they say high tide raises all ships.
GS 855
Red Gut Z51 Coupe
Arguing which is better is silly as both have their own positive attributes... for some the exclusivity of the only 4 cam Corvette wins while others like me are drawn to the looks of the GS. Personally I have never liked the look of the wide rear fascia of the ZR1 but different strokes for different folks
What isn't debatable is that we are at 20+ years in and the GS has by a wide margin held its value at a much higher level than the ZR1 which in turn means that in the collector car world a ZR1 might be one of the best bang for the buck buys out there.... Hell, There are nice low mile IROCs selling for equal or more than nice ZR1s and GS's... That is insane.
At the end of the day we should appreciate each model for what they were/are and root for each as time goes by... As they say high tide raises all ships.
GS 855
Red Gut Z51 Coupe
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02-02-2018, 05:49 AM
#49
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Small world, I'm pretty sure it was this car I saw up close a couple times a few years ago at Cars & Coffee here in Vegas. If not, its identical, and the Vegas connection can't be a coincidence lol. It was a good 3 years ago so my memory is foggy. Saw it across the way and was like "Wait a second, it looks like a GS.. but.. is that a black LT5? What the!"
Didn't meet a Keith, but a David (C4Fanatic), and if I remember correctly he drove the car across country out here (still had the old plates, and Kansas sounds about right). It was just a few months before I bought my '94. Nice guy, showed me around the car and had plenty stories, including how it was originally a white on grey Z, road trips its been on and what mods had been done.
Oh, and when he drove off the thing was one of the best sounding cars at the show. Haha.
Didn't meet a Keith, but a David (C4Fanatic), and if I remember correctly he drove the car across country out here (still had the old plates, and Kansas sounds about right). It was just a few months before I bought my '94. Nice guy, showed me around the car and had plenty stories, including how it was originally a white on grey Z, road trips its been on and what mods had been done.
Oh, and when he drove off the thing was one of the best sounding cars at the show. Haha.
Last edited by Paul Workman; 02-04-2018 at 04:52 AM.
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02-03-2018, 03:15 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
I saw a car like this that was based on a white/gry (I believe it was a 91) in Mike Meadow's garage near Atlanta, Georgia in August 2011. I was looking at a Typhoon he had for sale, and the LT5 car was one of his other "possessions".
I wonder if this is the same car I saw 6 years ago? It looks a lot better in the pics from Vegas than it did in 2011. I didn't buy his Typhoon because of the condition. I wouldn't have bought the LT5 car either at the time. It was kind of a POS like his other cars. So if it is the same car, it has been blessed with finding subsequent owners that care for it.
I wonder if this is the same car I saw 6 years ago? It looks a lot better in the pics from Vegas than it did in 2011. I didn't buy his Typhoon because of the condition. I wouldn't have bought the LT5 car either at the time. It was kind of a POS like his other cars. So if it is the same car, it has been blessed with finding subsequent owners that care for it.
02-03-2018, 01:25 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Barrett Jackson GS
This past BJ auction was interesting in that I think it's the first time I saw a preserved low-mile C4 go for more than the original sticker (excluding charity or historically significant one-off cars, etc.). It was a 96 GS coupe with <1k miles that went for something like $60k.
In the past, I don't remember seeing preserved ZR-1's going for more than their original sticker but I'm also not that tuned in to the auction scene.
In the past, I don't remember seeing preserved ZR-1's going for more than their original sticker but I'm also not that tuned in to the auction scene.
02-03-2018, 01:51 PM
#53
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St. Jude Donor '05
bj is a special crowd for sure. Those guys dont care about current values, just a want/get thing maybe a little booze mixed in. 
02-03-2018, 02:22 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
I remember this old article from Vette Magazine with a couple that owned a CE lt4 with an automatic from the factory. The only one. It was a special order, of course, but technically was sold. It was snuck through the assembly line.
The GS is a fantastic C4 but is second to the ZR-1. The GS was a last attempt to hold buyer interest prior to the C5. The Z was a max effort tech marvel by Chevrolet to take to the world stage. The engines, in terms of appearance and power output are not comparable. Lots of neat hot rod tricks folded into the lt4 to make an “in house” motor to be proud of...and it is impressive when reading the stats next to an lt1’s.
One only needs to read Heart of The Beast to understand the gulf between these two C4s in terms of historical importance. The ZR-1 is the reason high performance super vettes offered by GM are a way of life now.
The GS is a fantastic C4 but is second to the ZR-1. The GS was a last attempt to hold buyer interest prior to the C5. The Z was a max effort tech marvel by Chevrolet to take to the world stage. The engines, in terms of appearance and power output are not comparable. Lots of neat hot rod tricks folded into the lt4 to make an “in house” motor to be proud of...and it is impressive when reading the stats next to an lt1’s.
One only needs to read Heart of The Beast to understand the gulf between these two C4s in terms of historical importance. The ZR-1 is the reason high performance super vettes offered by GM are a way of life now.
Last edited by 1985 Corvette; 02-03-2018 at 02:25 PM.
02-06-2018, 10:40 AM
#55
I remember this old article from Vette Magazine with a couple that owned a CE lt4 with an automatic from the factory. The only one. It was a special order, of course, but technically was sold. It was snuck through the assembly line.
The GS is a fantastic C4 but is second to the ZR-1. The GS was a last attempt to hold buyer interest prior to the C5. The Z was a max effort tech marvel by Chevrolet to take to the world stage. The engines, in terms of appearance and power output are not comparable. Lots of neat hot rod tricks folded into the lt4 to make an “in house” motor to be proud of...and it is impressive when reading the stats next to an lt1’s.
One only needs to read Heart of The Beast to understand the gulf between these two C4s in terms of historical importance. The ZR-1 is the reason high performance super vettes offered by GM are a way of life now.
The GS is a fantastic C4 but is second to the ZR-1. The GS was a last attempt to hold buyer interest prior to the C5. The Z was a max effort tech marvel by Chevrolet to take to the world stage. The engines, in terms of appearance and power output are not comparable. Lots of neat hot rod tricks folded into the lt4 to make an “in house” motor to be proud of...and it is impressive when reading the stats next to an lt1’s.
One only needs to read Heart of The Beast to understand the gulf between these two C4s in terms of historical importance. The ZR-1 is the reason high performance super vettes offered by GM are a way of life now.
Last edited by Fauxari08; 02-06-2018 at 10:40 AM.
02-07-2018, 12:04 AM
#57
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ERTIBLE-214616
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ERTIBLE-200468
Numbers don't lie!
Pretty strong number for not being collectible car. A BLEEDER VERT non dealer prepped 30 miles on the odo. sold for 145k two years ago can't find the info it's not a fairy tale.. when i bought G//S #748 Vert 11 years ago for 48k that same non dealer prepped sold in kissimee for 130k not bad for a regular vette with a paint job. I do agree with many the ZR1 is the King of all C4's(work of art!!), however collectability prices goes to the G//S Vert hands down.
ooogie booogie
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ERTIBLE-200468
Numbers don't lie!
Pretty strong number for not being collectible car. A BLEEDER VERT non dealer prepped 30 miles on the odo. sold for 145k two years ago can't find the info it's not a fairy tale.. when i bought G//S #748 Vert 11 years ago for 48k that same non dealer prepped sold in kissimee for 130k not bad for a regular vette with a paint job. I do agree with many the ZR1 is the King of all C4's(work of art!!), however collectability prices goes to the G//S Vert hands down.
ooogie booogie
02-07-2018, 12:21 AM
#58
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
02-10-2018, 04:59 PM
#59
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