The C4 don't get any respect
06-15-2018, 11:49 AM
#202
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
06-15-2018, 11:59 AM
#203
Is it really about respect?
I've read this post in it's entirety, and think that there are lots of very valid points being made from all sides. As a long time owner of a 1959 C1, and a very recent owner of a 95 LT1 A4, I have my own $0.02 to add.
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
06-15-2018, 12:15 PM
#204
Team Owner
06-15-2018, 12:36 PM
#205
Race Director
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 1000 Vin Scully Ave, L.A California
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I've read this post in it's entirety, and think that there are lots of very valid points being made from all sides. As a long time owner of a 1959 C1, and a very recent owner of a 95 LT1 A4, I have my own $0.02 to add.
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
The 59 I would love my dad to have.
I'd take the 95 lol .
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WhiteC1 (06-15-2018)
06-15-2018, 12:39 PM
#206
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Only to you, Aklim. Doesn't sound the same to me at all. In the future, if you set someone up with a question....be expecting an answer. 
Hit the nail directly on it's head. 
I've read this post in it's entirety, and think that there are lots of very valid points being made from all sides. As a long time owner of a 1959 C1, and a very recent owner of a 95 LT1 A4, I have my own $0.02 to add.
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
In terms of performance, my C1 is certainly the red-headed step child. Made mostly from extra truck parts, it's hardly a road course threat. My engine is a slightly warmed up, non original, 327. Four speed trans and a 3:36 axle. Not going to win any 1/4 mile trophies, but reasonably quick.
So, does it's lack of performance (at least by today's standards) mean it gets less respect? I don't think so. Although far from perfect, it gets a lot of attention and complements when I take it to the cruises/shows. To me, the older cars are much more about nostalgia, and the 'throw back' feeling you get from driving them. As someone said in an earlier post, what's cutting edge today will be surpassed by newer technology soon (or something to that effect).
I think what hurts the C4 in terms of respect, is that since the end of the C4 series, Corvettes have evolved in technology and performance in every generation. So, people get spoiled by the level of performance you can buy off the showroom floor today, and what was so special 20 years ago, isn't by today's standards.
So maybe the question should be about desirability. My 59 is desirable to me because of the feeling I get driving it (very raw), and partially because of its relative rarity (<10,000 made in '59). The 95 gives a tremendous bang for the buck in terms of performance, and that adds to its desirability (for me anyways). I've never driven a C5, C6, or C7 (yet), and find in interesting that many people comment about it being boring. I guess when cars become so refined that they can be both comfortable and ultra high performance, they actually get less exciting to drive...
Just my random thought.
Regards,
John
Hit the nail directly on it's head.
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WhiteC1 (06-15-2018)
06-15-2018, 09:23 PM
#208
Team Owner
I was expecting an answer. "Because" wasn't more than a short form of "Because I'm your mother and I said so" unless there was something that was deleted
06-15-2018, 09:43 PM
#209
Burning Brakes
06-15-2018, 09:48 PM
#210
Team Owner
06-15-2018, 10:11 PM
#211
Burning Brakes
06-15-2018, 11:55 PM
#213
06-16-2018, 10:46 AM
#214
Drifting
Don't know much about C4s and lack of respect, but...
...I've noticed many trucks, SUVs, mini vans, and taller vehicles don't seem to see me when they change lanes or accelerate into traffic from a side street. I constantly drive with at least one thumb ready to press the horn on the wheel.
06-16-2018, 11:02 AM
#215
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
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I wired the driving lights up to act as daytime running lights for that very reason.
Traveled with the headlights on out west, because the semi drivers would lose me in the late afternoon shadows cast by their trucks.
06-16-2018, 11:37 AM
#216
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: South-central Missouri
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Do tell... I've got videos of a C4...
running 11.3x sec. at 129 mph, with a stock bottom 350 N/A. He claims it makes 474 hp @ the wheels.
Pete's car is an exceptional C4 and Pete is an exceptional turner. But, those of us less radically (ported/headers) LT5s run in the low 12s at 120-121 mph in the quarter. So, your "mid 11s at 120 mph" means you must be using a JATO bottle to launch your car off the line!
(Got any time slips to show?
)
Back on topic, I love the C4 "feel". And, the ZR-1 being the performance pinnacle C4 and add its mild modding (consisting only of porting, stock cams, headers and 3" exhaust) it retains its stock idle. But, it will (and has) surprised most C5, 6, and 7 drivers in straight line exhibitions, and walks away from essentially ALL of the status snobs in the twisties.
She's a keeper. This agile, easy to drive C4 puts more horses on the road than most new or old Vettes make at the crank. The stock idle makes her perfectly happy to cruise in city traffic one minute, but bares her teeth coming off an on ramp, when the peddle goes down and her DOHC LOTUS/MERC starts screaming toward the 7600 rpm cutoff. She represents the C4 generation well!
I admit I'm intrigued with the LS7s. I think I'd like to have a later C6Z06 as a stable mate - maybe keep some miles off the ZR-1. But, I'll NOT trade my C4 to get it.
.
Pete's car is an exceptional C4 and Pete is an exceptional turner. But, those of us less radically (ported/headers) LT5s run in the low 12s at 120-121 mph in the quarter. So, your "mid 11s at 120 mph" means you must be using a JATO bottle to launch your car off the line!
(Got any time slips to show?)Back on topic, I love the C4 "feel". And, the ZR-1 being the performance pinnacle C4 and add its mild modding (consisting only of porting, stock cams, headers and 3" exhaust) it retains its stock idle. But, it will (and has) surprised most C5, 6, and 7 drivers in straight line exhibitions, and walks away from essentially ALL of the status snobs in the twisties.
She's a keeper. This agile, easy to drive C4 puts more horses on the road than most new or old Vettes make at the crank.
The stock idle makes her perfectly happy to cruise in city traffic one minute, but bares her teeth coming off an on ramp, when the peddle goes down and her DOHC LOTUS/MERC starts screaming toward the 7600 rpm cutoff. She represents the C4 generation well! I admit I'm intrigued with the LS7s. I think I'd like to have a later C6Z06 as a stable mate - maybe keep some miles off the ZR-1. But, I'll NOT trade my C4 to get it.
.
Last edited by Paul Workman; 06-16-2018 at 11:49 AM. Reason: typos
06-16-2018, 12:09 PM
#217
Race Director
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However my Bright Aqua Metallic 96 LT4 car will run away from anything thru 04! I consider the ls1 a joke. The LT4's horsepower was under stated by a good little bit. Plus, it eats Mustang GT's like candy! Simply stated, absolutely fun car and more than able to run with whatever I want!!
From my experience, the 1996 LT-4 cars were underrated by about 10 horsepower....certainly not the 40-50 that many internet experts claim.
06-16-2018, 02:13 PM
#218
Race Director
I for one would readily take a new one. As I cannot afford one at this point, I am more than happy with the older cars. I love all Corvettes, they all have strengths and advantages. The fact that I would like a new one, does not diminish my apprecitation for an older model, like a nice C4!
i would way rather buy a new c4 like that vs. the new old mans golf bag toter’s that they sell today.
given a 63 grandsport or 96 grandsport i would take the ‘96 hands down.
06-16-2018, 04:57 PM
#219
Drifting
But she paid $1,600 for having ignored it. Or rather her insurance company did. She was such a bitch, I was sorely tempted to send her a big grinning selfie while holding the check.
So far, lane changing idiots have contributed over $3,700 to lowering my purchase price. Or contributed to a future paint job. All but the busted mirror buffed out.
06-16-2018, 06:11 PM
#220
Team Owner
[QUOTE=Renfield;1597420068]I have found the horn doesn't deter stupid, no matter what they're driving. People pay attention to horns like they pay attention to car alarms at the mall./QUOTE]
The HD crowd that advocates "Loud pipes saves lives" isn't going to like you much. They have been trying to advocate it as a "safety mechanism" just like I have been trying to tell the wife that having 700HP is a safety thing since it gets me out of the way faster if someone is crashing into me.
The HD crowd that advocates "Loud pipes saves lives" isn't going to like you much. They have been trying to advocate it as a "safety mechanism" just like I have been trying to tell the wife that having 700HP is a safety thing since it gets me out of the way faster if someone is crashing into me.