The C4 don't get any respect
06-14-2018, 03:46 PM
#181
I'll tell you why the C4 garners so little respect: lack of factory horsepower.
Until the ZR-1 came out, 250 horsepower was the max for a C4. Even the C2's could be had with more advertised power than that. (and advertised power is what creates legends and sells sports cars).
C2's you could buy right off the dealer's showroom floor with 425hp. C3's could be ordered with 465hp (all advertised). Not counting the ZR-1, what's the most factory horsepower you could get in a C4? That's right, 330.
That doesn't produce icons, guys. The C4's are excellent sports cars, as we all know, but they are't the fastest things on the road and never have been.
That's why they aren't lusted after today, decades after production has ceased.
Until the ZR-1 came out, 250 horsepower was the max for a C4. Even the C2's could be had with more advertised power than that. (and advertised power is what creates legends and sells sports cars).
C2's you could buy right off the dealer's showroom floor with 425hp. C3's could be ordered with 465hp (all advertised). Not counting the ZR-1, what's the most factory horsepower you could get in a C4? That's right, 330.
That doesn't produce icons, guys. The C4's are excellent sports cars, as we all know, but they are't the fastest things on the road and never have been.
That's why they aren't lusted after today, decades after production has ceased.
This may all be true. However my Bright Aqua Metallic 96 LT4 car will run away from anything thru 04! I consider the ls1 a joke. The LT4's horsepower was under stated by a good little bit. Plus, it eats Mustang GT's like candy! Simply stated, absolutely fun car and more than able to run with whatever I want!!
The following users liked this post:
AgentEran (06-14-2018)
06-14-2018, 03:54 PM
#182
This may all be true. However my Bright Aqua Metallic 96 LT4 car will run away from anything thru 04! I consider the ls1 a joke. The LT4's horsepower was under stated by a good little bit. Plus, it eats Mustang GT's like candy! Simply stated, absolutely fun car and more than able to run with whatever I want!!
Wasn't going to chime in but I regularly embarrass LS cars.. like all the time. 5.0s too. Ive only run into 1 5.0 that got me and was far from stock.
06-14-2018, 04:07 PM
#183
Team Owner
O.K...so let's take this a step further;
You go to a car show, and see this car:
Right next to ^that car is vthis car, which can our perform the car in the pic above, in every objective way:
You going to tell us that one would have to "bring up non objective items to mitigate the lack of objective performance." -in order to garner "respect" for the Duesenburg? I don't think so. The Duesenburg certainly earns respect on it's own merits...objective numbers or not.
You go to a car show, and see this car:
Right next to ^that car is vthis car, which can our perform the car in the pic above, in every objective way:
You going to tell us that one would have to "bring up non objective items to mitigate the lack of objective performance." -in order to garner "respect" for the Duesenburg? I don't think so. The Duesenburg certainly earns respect on it's own merits...objective numbers or not.
06-14-2018, 05:16 PM
#184
I look at objective stuff first and later on, as a tiebreaker, non-objective. If you gifted one of them to me with the stipulation that I couldn't flip it, the Toyota would definitely be the chosen one. Sure, I'd study the Duesenberg for a couple minutes but I'd never want to possess such an item other than to flip it. NFW would I want something that old after a look over to satisfy my curiosity. Carburetor car? No day, no way. IF I could not have to financially justify everything I have, I'd be ditching everything I own as soon as a newer and technologically superior model came out. I keep things because I can't justify dumping them out on my spreadsheet.
Then there is the question of aesthetics. While you have previously noted that you are not particularly nostalgic, as a Corvette owner, you do have some interest in aesthetically pleasing cars. Given that, there are many reasons why the Duesenberg is the better choice than the Camry if you stopped to think about it. For one thing, the Camry could never be accused as being a fun car - it may be the most boring and anonymous car on the planet. You could not make the same claim about the Duesenberg.
Another reason to study and retain older technologies is that they are often recycled in new ways to MAKE THEM the new technology. For that reason alone you would not want to lose the ability to understand the old tech.
Last edited by bb62; 06-14-2018 at 08:29 PM.
06-14-2018, 07:53 PM
#187
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Second.....
about choosing a Corolla over a Duesneburg! 
06-14-2018, 07:55 PM
#188
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
06-14-2018, 08:12 PM
#189
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes
on
295 Posts
I think the C4 is kind of a victim of its own success in this regard.
It was the fastest, hottest, most high tech, American sports car on the road and it still has the looks to match.
It was such a revolutionary jump GM skipped a whole model year to get it ironed out and it seems to command high expectations even now.
Example: Nobody expects this stuff from the plastic bumper C3 that preceded the 84 CFI, or from any Corvette that preceded that.
This is actually kind of a testament to the C4 design that it sets such high expectations over 30 years on, just from looking at it.
It was the fastest, hottest, most high tech, American sports car on the road and it still has the looks to match.
It was such a revolutionary jump GM skipped a whole model year to get it ironed out and it seems to command high expectations even now.
Example: Nobody expects this stuff from the plastic bumper C3 that preceded the 84 CFI, or from any Corvette that preceded that.
This is actually kind of a testament to the C4 design that it sets such high expectations over 30 years on, just from looking at it.
The following users liked this post:
v8vette84 (06-14-2018)
06-14-2018, 08:15 PM
#190
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes
on
295 Posts
PS: I don't think the C5 will ever command the attention that the C4 does.
I think it will kind of fall into the "Meh" bin while C4 will eventually join the C3-2-1 in the "Oh, look at the cool old corvette!" category..
I think it will kind of fall into the "Meh" bin while C4 will eventually join the C3-2-1 in the "Oh, look at the cool old corvette!" category..
The following users liked this post:
v8vette84 (06-14-2018)
06-14-2018, 10:15 PM
#191
Team Owner
I hope you realize that not all "newer" technologies are "better" than what they are replacing. More often than not, newer versions are just cheapened versions of the older product so the producer can make more money. There are also older technologies out there that are just better than the newer tech but nobody knows how to utilize the older tech anymore.
Then there is the question of aesthetics. While you have previously noted that you are not particularly nostalgic, as a Corvette owner, you do have some interest in aesthetically pleasing cars. Given that, there are many reasons why the Duesenberg is the better choice than the Camry if you stopped to think about it. For one thing, the Camry could never be accused as being a fun car - it may be the most boring and anonymous car on the planet. You could not make the same claim about the Duesenberg.
Another reason to study and retain older technologies is that they are often recycled in new ways to MAKE THEM the new technology. For that reason alone you would not want to lose the ability to understand the old tech.
Then there is the question of aesthetics. While you have previously noted that you are not particularly nostalgic, as a Corvette owner, you do have some interest in aesthetically pleasing cars. Given that, there are many reasons why the Duesenberg is the better choice than the Camry if you stopped to think about it. For one thing, the Camry could never be accused as being a fun car - it may be the most boring and anonymous car on the planet. You could not make the same claim about the Duesenberg.
Another reason to study and retain older technologies is that they are often recycled in new ways to MAKE THEM the new technology. For that reason alone you would not want to lose the ability to understand the old tech.
I got a 91 C4 because I just finished building my 91 F-body up when it got totaled and the motor had to go somewhere. C4 has fiberglass and F-body has metal. One rusts and the other doesn't so that is why I chose the C4. A Duesenberg won't have all the modern conveniences hence I wouldn't like it. Driving would be less carefree since parts and service would be a more difficult so there really isn't an upside for me assuming I couldn't flip it. I'd take the Duesenberg only for a flipper. It might give me a few minutes of amusement during discovery but it would be short lived. The Toyota would have utilitarian reasons, I can get service and parts and drive it all day long in all seasons and it would have the modern gadgets that I absolutely love.
I don't disagree with that. They are handy for understanding "First Principle" but after that, the lack of the latest electronic gadgets will probably get me wishing for newer.
06-14-2018, 10:22 PM
#192
Team Owner
As I said, it's old stuff I wouldn't enjoy. What upside would it have for me besides being able to be sold for more money that I paid?
06-14-2018, 10:26 PM
#193
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes
on
295 Posts
Duesneburg is one of the multitude of cars I am thrilled someone else owns and loves..
Because I don't want one and I don't want to drive one.. But I do want to look at them!
So, I'm thrilled they have enthusiasts.
Cars are art like that.. I can't own them all, but I want to walk through a gallery occasionally and enjoy them all.
Because I don't want one and I don't want to drive one.. But I do want to look at them!
So, I'm thrilled they have enthusiasts.
Cars are art like that.. I can't own them all, but I want to walk through a gallery occasionally and enjoy them all.
06-14-2018, 11:54 PM
#195
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
06-15-2018, 07:15 AM
#197
Drifting
Duesneburg is one of the multitude of cars I am thrilled someone else owns and loves..
Because I don't want one and I don't want to drive one.. But I do want to look at them!
So, I'm thrilled they have enthusiasts.
Cars are art like that.. I can't own them all, but I want to walk through a gallery occasionally and enjoy them all.
Because I don't want one and I don't want to drive one.. But I do want to look at them!
So, I'm thrilled they have enthusiasts.
Cars are art like that.. I can't own them all, but I want to walk through a gallery occasionally and enjoy them all.
I'd go with the Duesenberg. Until I get the Stanley Steamer running again.
Last edited by Renfield; 06-15-2018 at 07:18 AM.
06-15-2018, 08:17 AM
#198
Team Owner
06-15-2018, 08:43 AM
#199
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Greater Cincinnati Area.
Posts: 3,451
Received 335 Likes
on
295 Posts
Just talking about the evolution of the Vette and C4 generally..
Is anyone else surprised the clam shell hood didn't become a standard feature?
It's one of the greatest things about our cars. Universally loved. I'm really surprised it wasn't retained beyond a single generation.
Maybe it is expensive to produce? But it's a corvette.. What isn't expensive about producing one?
Is anyone else surprised the clam shell hood didn't become a standard feature?
It's one of the greatest things about our cars. Universally loved. I'm really surprised it wasn't retained beyond a single generation.
Maybe it is expensive to produce? But it's a corvette.. What isn't expensive about producing one?
Last edited by confab; 06-15-2018 at 08:45 AM. Reason: I cant speel.
06-15-2018, 09:03 AM
#200
Le Mans Master
Anyway, like others said, could care less whether my car gets respect or not.