cv67

Why, a good percentage of Z owners tear into and mod theirs the power is too easy to get. No need to pull heads or replace cams.
Those were made to take lots of very hard miles, perfect car to drive hard a lot.

If a car is rare or not should never be a reason not to drive one. Thats what insurance is for...if you like it get it and enjoy.
Nobody marries a 10 and abstains worrying about the next guy do they?

pologreen1

IIRC '82 is the only year no stick. C4 are mostly autos.

Zak2018

Sure. But if we can agree that the more one drives a car the sooner or most likely the engine will need serious work, starting with an engine you know upfront to be complex, more difficult to work on and with hard to find parts at a premium price, doesn't seem very smart IMO. I might be way off base here but this is how I look at it.

The other side to this is, how much can the price difference between a ZR-1 and a base C4 buy me in terms of upgrades for the base car, all the while giving me an easier, more affordable and easy to find parts for engine?

And a third thing is, with the extra weight being mostly at the nose of the ZR-1, I can only guess the base cars handle better or can be easily tuned to handle better? I'm seeing the ZR-1 as more of a GT and the base C4 as more of a sports car in terms of handling potential. Am I right?

Zak2018

So you are basically telling me I'm in trouble to find a manual C4 unless I'm looking for a ZR-1 or LT4 1996 car?

pologreen1

Not at all, just less stick than auto in c4's.

Lots of nice stick c4's for sale on this forum and plenty guys will let you experience a c4.

cv67

Theres not that big a difference in how they drive, the "heavy" thing is overrated.
If youre looking for power/$ get regular C4, the Zs require more of a commitment.
THey are durable enough where you wont have to tear into the engine and fix anything.
Many out there with 200k, driven hard that were never apart. You have to be real ignorant to break one of those...they will take way more abuse than a Gen 1 ever will.

81c3

Forget the weight difference. Unless you're someone that is regularly on a track, you will never out drive a ZR-1 on the street or probably any LT optioned Corvette for that matter.... If you're so worried about the handling, buy a set of coil overs and be done with it...

ChumpVette

Tom400CFI

I think this is "Worryin' about chit that ain't worth worryin' about".

LT5 with good maintenance, "beat on" or not....should cruise right on by 300,000 miles easy. How many miles a year would you put on a "driver"? How many years you going to own the thing? I drive my '92 from ~May to ~November most years. Every day to work (60 miles round trip) and every other chance I get to drive it. It's a "daily driver" when it's not snowing. I put ~7k miles on it a year. How long will it take me to wear it out? It's 26 years old, has ~185k miles on it....at the rate I'm driving it, the engine has got another 16 year at least! I'm pretty sure I'll be able to "build me mah 400" before 16 years has gone by...so not driving a car while worrying about an engine wearing out is.....EVERYONE:

"Worryin' about chit that ain't worth worryin' about"!

MatthewMiller

Well damn, yes I meant to post two different videos. I just fixed it.

Okay, I overlooked one thing when I wrote the last post. You can make more gains on an L98 than an LT1/4. The TPI intake is a choke point on that engine, and replacing it with a short-runner intake will give a real boost in power and add probably 1000rpm extra to the useful powerband. However, the ZR1 is by far the nicest way to make the power you want if you don't want a project build. I think Tom is right: a good LT5 should run well with little or no extra maintenance over an L98 or LT1.

Frankly, though, if I were in your shoes - I wanted around 400chp with a stock idle and I liked the earlier C4 body style and I didn't want to deal with the uniqueness of an LS swap and I thought a ZR1 was a little too pricey to buy and own - I'd consider a different approach. I'd find the nicest, cleanest 84-91 C4 I could find, with engine condition being unimportant. Then I'd yank that L98 and either swap in a crate 396 or have my stock L98 rebuilt as a 396. I'd put some mild aftermarket or maybe Vortec heads on it and find a cam that would really idle like stock or very close to it. And I'd use a Miniram or converted LT1 intake. You could get your 400chp and smooth idle that way, and it wouldn't be very exotic.

For the qualities you want, I'd say it's either the ZR1 or a very mild 396 build in an L98 car.

Tom400CFI

....and this was the plan that I intended to follow before I crossed paths with my '92....but I'd take advantage of the Gen I "platform" by using a SBC 400. That 4.125 bore....mmm. Cheap, easy to come by. Throw the rest of Matthew's recipe on there and you'd have a thrilling engine with stock like manners for reasonable cost.

pologreen1

Cubes eat cam. Depending on your year of car you pick a 400 block will change things. Either you want a fun car or not. Fact is 425chp 350ci will be totally street friendly in a stick car.

Zak2018

Looking around you are absolutely right. Huge majority is auto.

For example, there is a 1990 around here right now for a great price and quite low mileage for the price. But it's an automatic.

How much of a hassle is it to convert it to a ZF6? I guess with cars which were never sold as manuals it's harder as you have to find a pedal box which fits, cut the floor etc. But with the C4 I would guess everything is in place and all parts can be found and are available stock. Would it be a simple bolt on job? Since it's not like today that the transmission needs to talk to the ECU and engine etc. How hard is it? That would open up my options a lot when it comes time to find the right car.

Zak2018

Ok, Thanks.

I just thought it would affect the handling as every car I have ever driven, which has a version with a heavier engine, the heavier engine version handles worse than the version with the lighter engine.

Zak2018

Ah OK. I have no interest in convertibles. If people complain about stiffness with the C4 I can only image how the convertible version is. I always prefer hard tops for that very reason.

By the way, there were hard top C4s right? Most of them seem to be targa though. Were hard tops available in all years? Are they hard to find?

Zak2018

OK then. So it might boil down to the other factors apart from the LT5. We shall see.

Zak2018

Thanks. How much power then do you reckon from the L98 with mods you proposed?

I must say I'm not entirely well versed in Chevy jargon. This is to be my first Chevy. But googling it seems the 396 was an old big block? Carburetor then?

And when you say rebuild the L98 as a 396? Not swap?

By the way, do you have a picture of your engine?

MatthewMiller

Okay, responding to a few questions of your, I think it's a pretty big ordeal to swap from auto to ZF6. And it's expensive. The ZF6 transmission is not abundant out there, and they typically cost $1500 for used ones. Plus you need the clutch (you can mostly only get Chinese repros these days, and they aren't very good), the pedal assembly, the proper C-beam, etc. You'd be way better off financially and in terms of time spent to spend a bit more for a C4 already equipped with a ZF6.

There was no fixed-roof hardtop C4. They are all either targa tops or convertibles.
Untouched internally, I suppose an L98 with better intake, very mild cam, and maybe headers could hit the 330chp mark. Basically you'd be turning it into your version of an LT4.

Yes. You swap in a crank with a 3.875" stroke. A 3.75" stroke crank gets you a 383, and may be a little simpler due to not requiring any block clearancing.

No, but it's totally boring looking. It just looks like any other LT4 on the outside.

Zak2018

Thanks Matthew. We seem to be getting somewhere.

Ok, thanks. I didn't think it would be this complicated. I will have to dig out a manual then. Are there production numbers somewhere showing the number of manuals produced each year of the C4 run?

OK. Maybe what I'm thinking are hard tops are just targas with body color covers as opposed to the black glass. Pity. Wish there were hard tops.

Not too bad. So basically a LT. But would it keep the L98 bottom torque characteristic and great sound? If so, then I would have a LT with bottom torque instead of the LTs higher rev. Sounds good to me. For the road I think bottom end torque is where the fun is at.

And all of these would be just bolt ons right? And idle stock? I wonder why people complain about the L98 and rave about the LT1 and prefer LT1 cars then. Unless this is expensive or difficult to do, seem to me like a non brainer. Unless the person either likes the new styles which comes with the LT1 engine or maybe have plans to increase hp and starting at 300 hp is better.


OK. And that would still idle stock and get me around 400chp? So basically late ZR-1 power in a lighter car.

All bolt ons? Bottom torque still there? L98 sound?

Tom400CFI

1. The LT1 actually makes more bottom end torque than the L98.

[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...owertorque.jpg



2. All of the things Matthew is suggesting are bolt ons. Idle is defined (mostly) by the cam and tune
3. There is no difference in "sound" between an L98 and an LT1...or any other Gen I/II engine other than that sound which is created by the exhaust system and other engine changes (cam/compression). IOW, the intake doesn't define the sound. Any difference that you're talking about in and "L98 sound" is due to the L98's (single) exhaust system vs. the LT1's (dual) exhaust system. In any case where you're going for 300+hp, you'll ditch the L98's stock exhaust for something better and you'll no longer have the "L98 sound"...whatever that is.