SurfnSun

So funny that you keep speculating and are wrong every time. Europe & the rest of the world is buying Callaway TT's at a decent rate, too fast in my opinion. Non-US based Corvette guys there love the car. When you stop and consider that only 500 cars were produced when 4-5 cars and a Speedster leave the US in a year or so, that's considerable.

Whoever said a Callaway would be on par with a Ferrari or a Porsche from a collectability standpoint?? Just b/c its not a Porsche doesn't mean it won't have value to a collector or prices won't continue to grow, even at a smaller pace.

Exactly what is the point of this thread? You asked about prices and didn't like the answer you got. My guess is its bc you want an Aerobody car and can't afford one, so now you've shifted to tearing down the value as a justification for why the price shouldn't be so high.

pologreen1

Correct, most would not want my car. My car requires way more focus than Viper (even being auto). It makes it an experience for me I guess when i get in to it from other vehicles. Not saying it is the craziest thing on earth by any means, but I get what you mean, back then the B2K offered big HP and huge TQ and was not a hassle. I also think the C4 platform make power seem more than it it is, considering the seating position etc, especially for me i had an '89 and the '90 I feel like it is wrapped around me. I can imagine back then this experience was crazy, so i get where you are coming from. That leads me again to a connection you had to the car others might not.

I guess I was asking about driving the Viper when it came out in comparison to the B2K at the time, Like a new to new comparison. I'm basing this off of Corvette having the 300hp base, and the ZR-1 with the 375-405 at the time the viper came out. I was thinking what it would be like to drive a fast car at the time of 300hp and then jump in to something that is unreal and nothing to compare to it at the time in the 400+ hp range. A small variety of cars to choose from with this level of performance.

Another thing is did they stiffen the chassis? With out C beam plates my car was terrible. If I spun the tires at all it went sideways terrible. Those plates needed to be in there for sure at least on my vert they did.

pologreen1

This is the missing part of the story. This is the first time Europe was mentioned as buyers, in this case I would agree it is possible that they keep the values up and the y begin to sell or compete with each other for an American car. That was a good point and yes, then it makes sense, but I still say Americans will not find ways to achieve this car in the future, unless they had ties to it somehow or styling gets silly in new cars, or perhaps laws change and you can only buy / drive "factory" type cars on the road which would make them valuable or invaluable. I could see that happening too the way we are headed.

0Callaway Chris

I like the C-Beam plates from ZF-DOC and have driven cars with them. They seemed to really bridge that weak link well.

I saw a pretty good pic of what it's like to drive a B2K. Here it is:

puzzigully

There's a 1987 CTTC for sale on Ebay right now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Corvet...2:pf:0&vxp=mtr

It seemingly has a reserve, interesting to see what it is.
The sellers web site shows it for sale at $23,900.

Depending on your negotiating powers, you could get it for less, but I doubt it'd be under $20K

*89x2*

puzzigully

Agree - NOT a fan of wood grain in cars...

*89x2*

Hello, MaryAnn

Zak2018

Indeed very sharp. Agree on the wood part though. Doesn't seem to look good on anything not British. Don't mind it on Jaguars, Rolls Royces and Bentleys. But on Corvettes I'm not a fan.

Although the early Callaways are my least favorite C4 look. I think the naca ducts ruin the otherwise clean lines. I know it's functional. But spoils the otherwise flawless hood. On the AeroBody it's fine as the whole look is already "spoiled".

Is 45k miles considered truly low mileage for such a car though? Honest question.


.

Zak2018

I'm sorry, who is speculating? What part? Are you saying Callaway is well known outside of the car buff world? Because it is not. Not at all. Not the car company anyways. Actually, check YT ZR-1 videos and how many comments saying they didn't even know the ZR-1 existed. Let alone Callaway. And what's your source for your Europe comment? In Europe is even worse. Not only nobody has a slightest idea of what a Callaway is, but also the Corvette is not well know at all. The average Joe doesn't know what a Corvette is in Europe. At least state wide everybody knows the Corvette.

I'm in Europe right now! If I walk out to the street and start stopping people and asking what a Corvette is, I'm sure most of them wouldn't know! Now if I ask anybody's granny they will know what a Ferrari or Porsche is. Most likely anywhere in the western world. Chevrolet as well. But Corvette not really. Unless it's a car buff. Even the Mustang is better known in Europe for example.

As for the point of the thread, I was pretty much done with it in terms of the value topic. Pologreen1 brought it back up and I was just commenting on his comments.

As for being jealous of the AeroBody and not being able to afford one, should I post a picture of my garage? I definitely can afford a $50K car. Do I think it's worth that much? Nope. Would I pay that much? Absolutely not. But that's an entirely different story from being able to afford it.

Also, I actually have come to prefer the standard C4 look over the AeroBody. At least in coupe form. It makes the car look blocky. Only the rear doesn't. Now the Speedster is a different story! That's a true work of art. To me at the moment is Speedster, classic C4, 91-96 ZR-1, coupe AeroBody, Sledgehammer, early C4 Callaways. In that order.

I'm not tearing down the price. I'm just trying to analyze it, from a NOT a fanboy point of view. I had the impression this was what pologreen1 was trying to do as well and I was just bouncing off his ideas. I didn't realized this was a high school forum and people had such thin skins and you could only sing praises. I think I'm not in a forum where owners are late teens or early 20s. So some reactions here are surprising, given the Corvette's reputation of being a 50 years old plus person car. I thought I was in the younger side of things here.

I'm not being negative. I'm just discussing. I have experience with classic cars. I know collectors, restaurers, with classic Porsches, Ferraris, Jaguars etc. I watch the classic market. I myself have owned classic cars. I'm just speaking my opinion formed from the time I have been involved with cars in general and classic cars specifically.

There are basically 2 types of old cars with a following. Generational ones and the ones which transcend generations. You won't find many car guys, regardless of age, saying a 550 Spyder is not a good looking car. Or even something as recent as a F40. But most young car guys will say the Callaway looks dated and even ugly. Ditto with the C4. I don't think so (I feel I have to keep stating the obvious to avoid ruffling sensitive feathers). But my or your or anybody's opinions in this site doesn't change that fact. This is a Corvette forum. I would think anybody posting here are Corvette fans.

The Callaway is now in that spot where the people who care for it, independently of geographic location, are the people who were kids in its heyday, or who couldn't afford one back then at new prices. Once these people lose interest or are no longer here, if the car doesn't transcend the generational barrier, prices will slow down for sure. This is my point. If you don't like it is still my opinion.

Now basically every and any old car will be worth something once it's really old if it's in good condition. But this is not the same as being a valuable classic. Also, not every classic is a valuable classic. There are still several affordable true classics out there. But only valuable classics continue to appreciate in price, and in an absurd way. I just don't see the Callaway being that way. Just my opinion. Among Corvettes, how many truly have that status? C1s? 63 split window? Can that be said about many others?

Just ask how many here own a C4 because they can't afford a newer Corvette. Or ask how many who own a C4 and are older than 30-35 years old, which is the age bracket who were kids when the C4 was a new car or who's dad could have had a C4. Or maybe original owners who are now in their mid 50's and up. To become a true valuable classic the car has to break from that mould first. For the Callaway to reach valuable classic status, the C4 has to reach it first, because the Callaway is a C4. Now it's a C4 with a body kit for most of the casual car fan world. I even saw a magazine (blog really) referring to it in a similar way. And that was somebody who I would think would know about cars. Since he is writing about cars. Now image what street Joe thinks.

SurfnSun

Zak2018

Once one starts putting words in somebody's mouth and resorts to evasive tactics, it's a tall sign such individual has either run out of arguments, has realized he is wrong or that at least the other party has a point and don't want to admit it, or was always in over his head and should have never got in the conversation in the first place.

Oh yes, labeling somebody who disagrees with you a troll. Text book " I have no argument" cop-out.

You are right about one thing though. This conversation is indeed over. Didn't realize I was wasting my time, but rather thought there was least some attempt at having an intelligible conversation.

*89x2*

In for pics of Zak's garage.

SurfnSun

89onlyZ51

These threads come up from time to time and crack me up. Inevitably, people who have never driven (or even ridden in) a Callaway twin-turbo and who probably can't afford one talk about its status and investment potential. All that they're left to judge them upon is how they look, which for non-aerobody cars, is basically just a C4 with cool wheels.

Why do I have one? These were among the non-female objects of desire when I was in high school. It was the Callaway/ZR-1 and 928S4 that stood at the top of the list of 'someday, I could see myself buying one of these'. Sure, the Testarossa, Countach, etc. were much more exotic and flamboyant, but, realistically, I couldn't see myself in one of those. I had already owned a 928S, and it was a great car, but the drivetrain just seemed too 'fragile' and parts ridiculously expensive or not available (even 20 years ago). I later drove a ZR-1, and it was very similar to my 928 but with MUCH more power and a more durable feeling drivetrain. I didn't buy that car but later bought an '89 Z51 6 speed that I intended to add a procharger to. While getting into the costs of 'building' up the '89, an '87 Callaway convertible came up for sale that was close enough to me at a price that compared favorably to (properly) adding forced induction to my '89. A Z also would have been OK, but I preferred a convertible (have the factory hardtop so best of both worlds).

Others have said it before me, but I can't stress enough that your comments on Callaway twin-turbos are pretty meaningless unless you've either a) driven one in good operating order or b) are just expressing your opinion on their looks. The 'experience' of driving one is quite different than any other car you will every drive. Sure, on paper, there are plenty of cars that are faster, more exotic, offer more bang for the buck, etc., but the total package of sounds (woosh then wastegates dumping at each shift) and how the thrust comes on is what these are all about. Then, you also have to appreciate that this was 30 years ago and what these cars meant for Corvette, GM, and America at the time.

As to values, who cares? They're just cars. There are plenty of people who will be alive for a long time to keep the 400 or so still around in demand. An entry-level '87 can be bought in the teens needing attention. Well-sorted cars will start in the mid-$20's. Add for dymags, aerobody, speedster, year, etc. etc. all the way up to $1+ million for the sledgehammer.

pologreen1

I'm still lost on the "callaway" feeling. It's not power that will sell them. That was then, this is now. Most newer vettes will eat those things, and if they are modded forget about it.

My C4 is built right now to make basically 700(comfortably) na /1200n20, the car without options/gadgets anymore. (not impressive BTW)

Power is power right? The C4 is an experience in itself, add power, and you have a fun /scary car.

I mean I see several c6's a month with superchargers etc for sale low 30's even high 20's that will eat a c4 Callaway.

IMO if you have driven or ridden in a c4, then you know the c4. I think people are stuck on knowing the difference between 450hp and 240hp and they think it is awesome. . Maybe they paid a lot of money and it helps justify it feeling like it is special. Now step up it up a notch and imagine it, plus all the goodies in a new one. They were and are cool, but impressive... not at all. Mainstream sees what someone re-posted here of the c4 with a bad roll bar from NRE at 1700 SBC twin Turbo. I feel it. I always know I could go lower compression TT and make that same power. I don't need much more than I have in my c4 to be honest. Frankly The c4 is not even set up for lots of power period. From one end to the next and the suspension definitely not.

Now I know someone with an 80's firebird with less power than me, a 6spd 4.11 gears, DR's and it "feels" like it will eat my car, That car is not TT. I have had turbo cars, and my vette with the old yank stall I sold really pulled like a fright train as they say. That is the credit I will give to the "feeling" statement. Set makes all the difference. My speedo climbs really fast, but I don't feel the same experience as my other stall.

ZR-1 would be more valuable IF anything, and you said why you bought it. High school. Now did you want the '68 shelby? maybe, maybe you liked it, but not your thing I suppose. Well that is kids now too.
So this means you are getting older, and the car is now old and forgotten except for guys like you,

89onlyZ51

^ This. Power is not power. It's the way it comes on encompassed by all the other sounds and sensations of driving the whole car as a package. It's very different than a big cube motor with a lumpy cam of similar power (like my Guldstrand GS80). Couple that with the fact that it was blessed by conservative GM with an RPO almost as rare as the C2/3 L-88's. Again, I'm not saying it's everyone's cup of tea, nor that it is anything close to the fastest thing out there today, for the same money or not. If you appreciate history and appreciate engineering and drive one, I guarantee you will have more of an appreciation for these cars even if you don't want to run out and buy one.

You can say the same thing for the late-70's/early-'80's 911 turbo. The car is relatively slow by today's standards, a scary beast to drive, and outmoded by many 'pedestrian' cars today. Yet there's still a place for them, and they command very high prices. And for my money, I'll still take an '87 B2K over a 'built' C4 of similar performance levels any day. You will probably spend as much money on your 'built' C4 (even if it's not done all at once), and you may get similar performance on paper, but in the end, you'll just have another dime-a-dozen modified, loud C4 with lousy resale. If you think foreign (and European in particular) cars are for rich d-bags, the Callaway probably isn't your thing as they're really targeted toward that same market.

As for the C4 as a whole, I still like them. To me, they're clean and not over-styled like the earlier or later cars (still like the C2 best, and those are way before my time). I feel it was the first Corvette where engineering came first - ya know, form follows function, and that fits with my personality. Would I have any C4 for a daily driver - no way, it's just a toy at this point. I can pretty much have any car I want for a toy these days, and I've hung onto my two special C4's. Why? All the newer stuff just doesn't excite me even though they're faster, better, etc. in almost every way. For a toy, though, they're all just too insulated and have too many electronic nannies to deliver that raw driving experience.

puzzigully

I love my Callaway

Don't really care if anyone else does

BTW: I'm an Australian and most corvette guys here know what a Callaway is.

Meanmyz

There are about three guys that hang out alot in c4 forum that are always pizzin' on c4s and other owner's enthusiasm. Most of the time they jump into the ZR-1 posts to spew their drivel and put the car down. Why hang out here if it is always to **** on our parade? I could sell my c4s to basically have just about any Corvette, however, the c4s are the ones that I like. At 45, I am not young, but certainly not old.

Meanmyz

By the way, I'd luv to have a Callaway. I think I want Chris's red Aerobody!