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1984 c4

 
Old 12-16-2018, 05:58 PM
  #21  
Tom400CFI
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I don't think anyone said it would be no fun (a subjective measure)...he said it was slow (and objective measure). In 1984, the car was "fast". That would be a result of comparing it to it's 100hp-200hp peers of the era. Compared to economy cars, minivans and electric cars of today...it's objectively, slow. That doesn't mean it's not FUN. MY '92 is also "slow", compared to today's cars. Still...it's fun.


Originally Posted by BigDogYoop View Post
BTW tell me which year VETTE doesn't cost a good amount of money to own?????
My '92 (and any well maintained C4). I've had it 10 years and spend ~$800 on repairs. To me that qualifies as "doesn't cost a good amount of money to own".

Look...I'm a CFI pom-pom shaker. I've had one and loved it. What *I* love about the CFI cars is that they're unique/different, and increasing power is very low hanging fruit, which makes them fantastic underdogs, IMO. Do I think the OP should buy this car? No I do not. Based on the information provided, I see this particular car as a Vette Kart candidate or a race car project....not a driver w/resale potential.


.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; 12-16-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:13 PM
  #22  
MatthewMiller
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Originally Posted by BigDogYoop View Post
Mathew--I will say again that a 1984 vette (that you have 4K into)for a nice driver is a great and FUN car to own, and TELL me (US) how much you've lost on making speed??? You sound like a rambling F**L
Wow, rambling fool? Ad hominem attack much?

As others have already written, you can't buy a $1400 C4 that needs all the things the OP's prospect needs and get it into good shape again for only another $2600 (which would be your total of $4k). As I've already noted, the total cost to buy and restore this 84 C4 with over 100k miles would easily be as much as it would cost to buy a much newer one with fewer and in good condition already. And you'd still be stuck with a very slow and very undesirable stock 84 C4. Given the choice, if you would choose the C4 that needs all the work just to get it nice and stock again, then who's the fool? The OP's goal was to purchase the car, do the work it needs over the course of two years, and sell it for what he has in it. That's never going to happen with the car in question.

Whether a restored 84 is a "great and fun car to own" isn't relevant to the discussion, and I wasn't arguing that it isn't. All years of C4 can be great and fun to own. The point is whether or not a clapped out, high-mileage 84 would be a good purchase for the OP, given his stated goals for the car. The fact is there are many choices among used C4s out there, and almost all of them would be better purchases than this one...for his purposes.

How much I've spent on "making speed" isn't relevant either - it's a completely different topic and project, and I've already stated twice that this particular 84 might not be a bad starting point for a competition car project. Just know that the very first step in such a project after getting the car home would be to remove the L83 that's in it (probably to sell it for parts to offset some of the purchase price). I probably have spent a whole lot less on my car than you think, and could also probably recoup every dime if I sold it all off right now. But that's never been my intent with this car - my intent is to use it as a very fun and extremely cost-effective modded Corvette. It fills that role incredibly well, too. But for the role of fun, nice street driver C4 that one intends to flip after a couple years without a loss, an clapped out 84 is not a good way to go.

BTW--most cars of any type you buy will cost you money to own...
We aren't talking about the cost to own the 84 C4 in question. We are only talking about the cost to buy it and get it back into decent shape again. Please go back and re-read all the posts in this thread, because it's clear that you are responding to things that were never written by anyone.
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:05 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller View Post
FTFY. You're right, I do have race on the brain, and the OP's needs are quite different. I only added the if-it-were-me part to provide a contrast between the OP's needs and mine, and to highlight the kind of buyer for whom the 84 in question might actually make sense...and that he's probably not that kind of buyer. Looking at your second post, I think we agree.
Don't write the crossfire off. My 84 is fixed with the Xram intake, an aftermarket option that was available about 15 or twenty years ago. I am a 70 year old driver and do not go racing. But the previous owner told me he had no trouble beating TPI Corvettes of newer years with the 84. He also changed the Fuel pump, enlarged the throttle bodies and did some ECM switching and exhaust work.The crossfire just needs to breath. The ports on the intake are way to small. The Xram takes care of that issue. The 84 Z51 is one of the best handling of all Corvette years. A one year option only in its original set up. In 85 GM had to change the race track set up because of customer complains of a harsh ride. Yes the ride is very harsh, but it will do amazing thinks on and auto cross. .
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:46 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ps374 View Post
Don't write the crossfire off. My 84 is fixed with the Xram intake, an aftermarket option that was available about 15 or twenty years ago. I am a 70 year old driver and do not go racing. But the previous owner told me he had no trouble beating TPI Corvettes of newer years with the 84. He also changed the Fuel pump, enlarged the throttle bodies and did some ECM switching and exhaust work.The crossfire just needs to breath. The ports on the intake are way to small. The Xram takes care of that issue. The 84 Z51 is one of the best handling of all Corvette years. A one year option only in its original set up. In 85 GM had to change the race track set up because of customer complains of a harsh ride. Yes the ride is very harsh, but it will do amazing thinks on and auto cross. .
Everything you wrote is accurate. However, for the work and money that went into making your L83 a bit faster than an L98 car (intake, two throttle bodies, exhaust, and ECM), someone could have just as easily bought stiffer springs for the L98 car along with even wider wheels and tires. It would then have a lot more grip than the 84. It's kind of six of one and half dozen of another.

The real problem I see with the 84 is that in stock form it is slow. If you do bolt-on engine mods to make it comparable to an L98, it is then not eligible for any stock-based competition class, and so at that point the springs are not a big advantage because they can be upgraded in any such class, too. From a collector or concourse car show POV, keeping it stock is preferred; but from a resale POV it's the least desirable C4. If you have one already or you can get a nice one for super cheap, and you don't mind modifying it, then it could be a good starting point. As a stock-condition car it's just not worth much. And the OP's prospect needed a lot of work and he would lose money on it when he went to resell in a couple years, as he stated he intended to do. I'm not writing 84s off altogether, but they aren't a good choice for the OP's stated needs.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:09 AM
  #25  
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I agree with many points made here. Always buy the best example that you can afford. That is a good rule when buying a car you know will need work.

With that said, the 84 is an amazing car in many ways. The handling is phenomenal, though choppy. Can't have your cake and eat it too. The highway ride is excellent and the acceleration is not as terrible as people make it out to be. 0-60 in an automatic 84 was 6.7 seconds. The 4+3 84 was like 6.4 seconds. Those numbers are still fairly respectable. Seat of the pants feel against a Tuned Port car or LT1 is of course not as exhilarating as far as the acceleration is concerned, but honestly, its not all about speed. Its how the car makes you feel when you drive it. If you drive the car and love the car then buy it. If you don't love it then pass on it.

You have an idea of what it will cost to fix and already know you won't sell it for a profit. If you love the car then it doesn't matter as much when you have to put money into it. I've had two 84's and loved them both. The Light Bronze was a 4+3 and the Black was an automatic that I rescued form NY and rebuilt after a flood. Absolutely loved them both but a loss of a job saw to it that I sold both of them and my 94 6spd LT1. Bought an 86 4+3 last spring and its been great being back in the saddle again!! Here are a couple older pics of my 84's for motivation:




Last edited by mazdaverx7; 12-25-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 12-25-2018, 01:14 PM
  #26  
MatthewMiller
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BTW, one fun project would be a sleeper 84. You'd have to figure out the best way to get the biggest intake runners possible with a stock-looking crossram intake (maybe that Xram is big enough?), re-use the stock filter housing (might have to hog out the openings on it, too), bigger throttle bodies...then put that on a 383 or 396 with good heads and more serious cam. Keep the hood open at car shows and gatherings so everyone can see it's a "crossfire," then close the hood and let the hilarity ensue. The only thing that would make this better would be a transparent hood!
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:36 PM
  #27  
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I have an ‘84 (4+3 w/Z51) that is still a blast to drive. The handling is fantastic, but I do find it a bit slow, my daily driver is a Model S. (In fairness, the Model S does make most cars seem slow)

if the OP wants to buy a toy, tinker with it and enjoy it for a few years he should go for it.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:07 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller View Post
BTW, one fun project would be a sleeper 84. You'd have to figure out the best way to get the biggest intake runners possible with a stock-looking crossram intake (maybe that Xram is big enough?), re-use the stock filter housing (might have to hog out the openings on it, too), bigger throttle bodies...then put that on a 383 or 396 with good heads and more serious cam. Keep the hood open at car shows and gatherings so everyone can see it's a "crossfire," then close the hood and let the hilarity ensue. The only thing that would make this better would be a transparent hood!
The runners on the renegade are able to be port matched to afr 210s if I remember correctly. They match 195s exactly so that could work. But you run out of injector then. It's a rough cycle. It sucks the manifold is such a hit or miss thing because it does work as stated and unless you really look, it looks stock, just clean.
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:18 PM
  #29  
Tom400CFI
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Originally Posted by MatthewMiller View Post
BTW, one fun project would be a sleeper 84. You'd have to figure out the best way to get the biggest intake runners possible with a stock-looking crossram intake (maybe that Xram is big enough?), re-use the stock filter housing (might have to hog out the openings on it, too), bigger throttle bodies...then put that on a 383 or 396 with good heads and more serious cam. Keep the hood open at car shows and gatherings so everyone can see it's a "crossfire," then close the hood and let the hilarity ensue. The only thing that would make this better would be a transparent hood!
A lot of folks have already done that. Ben73 on this forums has gone very low 12's, IIR with a basic 383 using a ported (I think) Renegade. I myself ran low 13's on a junkyard build SBC400 with a ported, stock CFI intake. Surprise a LOT of people when I'd open the hood at the track.

You could achieve similar results with a Offenhauser cross ram intake, and Edelbrock SY1 or similar intake using a custom lid. Due to it's mid length runner, the CFI architecture actually has a lot more hp/$ potential than the TPI -even though it starts off 25 hp "behind".
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:57 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by trm 84 View Post
I have an 84 (4+3 w/Z51) that is still a blast to drive. The handling is fantastic, but I do find it a bit slow, my daily driver is a Model S. (In fairness, the Model S does make most cars seem slow)

if the OP wants to buy a toy, tinker with it and enjoy it for a few years he should go for it.
The list of cars the model S makes look slow is almost every non-exotic car made today. Even C7s are slow in comparison at <100MPH. Wish I could afford one.

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Old 02-09-2019, 02:48 AM
  #31  
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THREAD FROM THE DEAD
Originally Posted by mazdaverx7 View Post
...the Black was an automatic that I rescued form NY and rebuilt after a flood.
I'm looking at an '84 flood victim, and this thread is the most-relevant I've found so far. Particularly your mention of paddling these waters already. Should we continue here, or start a new thread?

I have very few details about the car at this point. Signing up here & browsing the old threads has been my first step in researching if I want to get into Vettes again. Many years ago, I worked for a collector restoring & maintaining his stable of ~8 road cars, using his more than 20 parts cars. But his newest at that time was the '84 in his decade collection, so it didn't need much work. Another friend had a '65 toy, but I did very little work on that one. Just a trans/clutch, IIRC.

Last edited by Steve83; 02-09-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:51 AM
  #32  
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Welcome to the Forum!

I would like to know more about the condition of the 84 you are looking at. I purchased a 1984 back in 2011 and over a period of 7 years I completely restored the car to like new condition.
I probably have about $12,000.00 in the car and of course I could never expect to get that kind of money out of the car. It was a sentimental purchase and restoration in my case.

Unless you are wanting to do a lot of work yourself and have lots of dollars to spend I would consider looking at all the Corvette options on the C4s. You can find nice examples of these cars that may not need a whole lot of work for a very good price. The atari dash alone in the 84 will cost around $300.00+ depending on the shape of your core.

If you can give us more information about the car you are looking at and what you intend to do to it, then some of us here can try and guide you.

Last edited by zachaeous; 02-09-2019 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:42 AM
  #33  
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If I get it, it wouldn't be an investment, or have any sentimental value - just something to drive for fun until someone offers me more than I think it's worth. I'm a mechanic, so I have the tools & a decent home shop w/4-post lift to do whatever it needs. And I have other vehicles, so I won't depend on this one, or get rushed in fixing it. But I'm a Ford man with experience in Land Rovers, Saabs, & common imports - not much GM experience or parts/manuals. I have a friend at the local GM dealership, and others who are very familiar with newer GMs & with LT/LS engine swaps, & with repairing modern GM instrument clusters. So shoving something newer into this car is certainly an option - I've done complicated engine swaps on old Broncos (including the one I drive) & the Crown Vic I just totalled & stripped. I'm very comfortable with complex wiring mods & upgrades, and I've bypassed a fried Vette courtesy light module (I don't remember what year that car was) for a customer. My brother repairs & rebuilds MRIs professionally, but it's hard to get him interested in any of my projects.

All I know about this Vette is that it was flooded (wouldn't run), sold, & abandoned under a cover for a year or 3. When it was sold, the seller didn't mention that he hadn't locked the roof down, so they had to go back & pick it up off the side of the road, so it has some rash, but it's not cracked that I could see. The interior is funky, but not rotting that I noticed. There's no collision damage visible, and no greasy grime on top of the engine, but I didn't try to look underneath, or try to turn the key on. I assume the battery is dead, and the gas is probably getting bad. I expect to replace ALL the fluids, after I find out what's keeping it from running.

I'm not stuck on restoration since this is apparently NOT a desirable year or engine - I'm more interested in making it reliable, convenient (read MODERNIZED), & fun to drive anywhere any time. I don't expect it to win awards or races when I get it where I want it.

Last edited by Steve83; 02-09-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:35 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
I'm not stuck on restoration since this is apparently NOT a desirable year or engine - I'm more interested in making it reliable, convenient (read MODERNIZED), & fun to drive anywhere any time. I don't expect it to win awards or races when I get it where I want it.
If I were considering this car, I'd view it as an ideal candidate for an LS swap. I'd scrap the entire existing engine management system and go with the LS computer. I'd ditch the stock instruments and get some kind of aftermarket LCD panels to put in the stock rectangular dash openings. Strip that interior out, clean out the funk, and then do a custom interior. This could be a fun project!
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Old 02-09-2019, 05:41 PM
  #35  
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I agree with the above post. Update to newer drive train and custom interior would be the way to go. The LS engine platform would be great. Best of luck with your project.
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