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State of the market for other than C4's

 
Old 03-11-2019, 09:21 PM
  #21  
ChumpVette
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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
The forum dealers, sure. But that's not representative of the whole country. If you walk into a dealership to buy a car they're not gonna throw 15k off immediately at you.

The real irony is that everyone is all whipped into a frenzy about the c8, which is totally unsubstantiated. It's just as likely the mid engine car is a 200k plus special edition car like the Ford gt.
Local the ads are 5-7.5 off without even walking on the lot.

New C7 ZR1, unsold for 1 month. Granted itís in a hideous color. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1599028126
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:21 PM
  #22  
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here are some local dealers, that have at least one new Vettes that are 14K OR MORE less than MSRP and decent savings on other Vettes, nothing is going for MSRP around here. these are within 25 miles'ish of Akron, Ohio.

https://www.serpentini-tallmadge.com...model=Corvette

https://www.spitzerchevroletnorthcan...model=Corvette

https://www.serpentinichevy.net/Vehi...model=Corvette

I will give the caveat that there could be regional differences. Those of you that live in areas that have higher standards of living (and wages) will see less savings than areas that are having economic deficiencies as most people then won't take the time to drive 500 miles or so to buy a vehicle.

Last edited by drcook; 03-11-2019 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:36 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ChumpVette View Post
Local the ads are 5-7.5 off without even walking on the lot.

New C7 ZR1, unsold for 1 month. Granted itís in a hideous color. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1599028126
I think that's unsold because it's a hundred and forty freaking thousand dollars. That's a house in most of the country.

The deals arent as great around here. I would say climate and time of year play a factor too. But at the end of the day, discounts are the name of the game for domestics... it's just how it goes. Doesnt mean anything bad, it's just the realities of the market and domestic cars in general.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:43 PM
  #24  
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Folks there are a lot of cars out there so corvette not just the only sports car in town anymore . I bought my car 1987 19 years ago my only true love i will never see my money back i can never take my eyes off my car when i get home .
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:53 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ChumpVette View Post
Local the ads are 5-7.5 off without even walking on the lot.

New C7 ZR1, unsold for 1 month. Granted itís in a hideous color. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1599028126
I could never get past the "chipmunk cheeks" look of the C7 ZR1...

Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
I dont think thats entirely true. I will say, young guys like me probably aren't as interested in clubs for spdcific cars as oldsr generations. We don't want to sit and eat pancakes and talk about the same crt, we want to be able to post pics of a ton of different cars, or several identical cars. We want cool backdrops to show off on social media, and things like that. We are far more likely to be interested in a cars and coffee type event than a vette show. Also, we don't want to wake up super early to do it either. Night shows are popular for us, we can go after work or classes.

This was sort of ranty, but people act like younger people are not into cars, but it just isn't true. We just aren't into people being ******** to us.
Yes, this... I'm 28 and have often considered joining a local Corvette club but good lord those "cruises" are boring. Doing 45 in a 55 isn't appealing to me... I want to have a bit of fun. There is a DISTINCT difference between being an idiot and having a bit of fun mind you... I like meet ups at night time personally. I like them at anytime but I grew up meeting up after work and it was always late. Cruise over to the plaza and hang out with some buddies under the parking lot lights. Cruise up and down the 2 lane road waiting for a ricer/big mouth kid to try to run you. Good times.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:38 PM
  #26  
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^^^^ meeting up with a member or two bringing a gopro can be a lot of fun. Sitting at IHOP discussing medicare and their "mechanic" who washed their golden Chariot...ck please!
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:19 PM
  #27  
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I'm 28 and have often considered joining a local Corvette club
Some of them put on autocrosses and other "low speed" events that you don't have to be a member of the club to take part in.

Sitting at IHOP discussing medicare and their "mechanic" who washed their golden Chariot.
A lot of the members in the club I belong used to race, but that is used to. I understand what you mean though. Too much of the activities revolve around going to eat somewhere, going to the winery.

I will say though, that the club I belong to does a lot for charity. Support (read that money) has been raised for a local version of the Wounded Warriors type of charity, with the money staying here. Funds have also been raised for a battered woman's shelter, along with pillows. That kind of activity is good to do.

I am getting to where 1 summer of the shows was enough for me to get clued in as to how it was going to go. This year we are going camping and to Carlisle, etc, instead of paying to sit at a Corvette show, where one of the local trophy hunter clubs will show up at and vote for each other.

My wife and I have made a couple good friends, but in year 2 (as I am expressing honesty) I really don't think we will rejoin next year. This year was touch and go right up to the last couple days to get the dues in. I am looking at ROI, and the ROI -vs- expenditure is getting too lopsided. (ROI = fun, enjoyment, etc).

meeting up with a member or two bringing a gopro can be a lot of fun
I have been doing that with members of the forum here. So far I have met "Kubs" and "Dizwiz24". I have been attempting to get together with some of the others from NE Ohio and over towards Youngstown. Truthfully, I have found this to be more fun than most of the club get togethers.

I suggest to the forum members here that we have a lot more in common than you think regardless of our respective ages or backgrounds and that for the most part (even if there have been disagreements on the forum) you (the royal you) would really enjoy meeting other members and swapping stories, giving a hand on each other's cars, etc.
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:41 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
^^^^ meeting up with a member or two bringing a gopro can be a lot of fun. Sitting at ihop discussing medicare and their "mechanic" who washed their golden chariot...ck please!
rofl!
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:34 AM
  #29  
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Well there is one thing we can count on and that is change. I am in my mid 50's and when I am around the local Corvette club members in my area I feel like a rookie on the 1986 Boston Celtic squad. What concerns me more than many things about the club in my area is the fact that they are content to have Corvette only shows. This is a big mistake in my opinion as we need to get more of the younger people connecting to the brand.

When I was a kid a vehicle represented freedom to get out and see the world ( well at least it got you out of the house and maybe to the next town or two ). Today freedom to get out and see the world is available through our computers. I was thinking about something that I feel makes a big impact on how much we enjoy getting out and seeing things-that something is population growth. In my lifetime the worlds population has more than doubled. So the reality is getting out and taking a relaxing drive is much different now that it was 30 years ago for most of us. No fun to sit in heavy traffic or try and find a place to park in many cities or popular spots.

If I lived in a major city I most likely would not own a car like a Corvette. Just do not think it would be worth it and I most likely would be spending too much of my income on housing etc. to even have the extra cash to do it anyways. I will share some insight on the growth we are seeing in resto mods. It makes sense to take an older car and make it drive more like a newer car. But here is the thing, we see a '56 Corvette resto mod for example sell at auction for well over $100K and think what a great deal that was for the owner to get that much out of their old vette. What we forget about is how much money and time was put into that '56 vette. I work in the auto body industry so let me share some insight on what you can spend on a resto mod if you turn it over to a qualified shop to make your dream car a reality.

I spoke to an owner of a restoration shop in my region who had just finished a resto mod '56 vette. Now I work at a shop that handles insurance work mainly so I looked at this '56 vette and figured it probably had between $150K to $200K put into the project. Well even I was surprised to hear what really was spent on the car. The shop had almost 3500 hours into the car which at $90.00 per hour was already over $300K just in labor. Now add all the parts and materials put into the car and you had well over $400K spent on this resto mod. If the owner decided to sell the car you would see it go through the auction and lets say it fetched close to $200K you would think man that owner just made out like a bandit but in reality they just lost over $200K.



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Old 03-13-2019, 02:58 AM
  #30  
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While I still raced the '88 at Englishtown I cruised with fellow racers occasionally. My favorite was heading up to Bear Mt. to cruise the "twisties" with the guys. Most of it felt like "on the edge" driving...great fun.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:46 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 95tealconvert View Post
Well there is one thing we can count on and that is change. I am in my mid 50's and when I am around the local Corvette club members in my area I feel like a rookie on the 1986 Boston Celtic squad. What concerns me more than many things about the club in my area is the fact that they are content to have Corvette only shows. This is a big mistake in my opinion as we need to get more of the younger people connecting to the brand.

When I was a kid a vehicle represented freedom to get out and see the world ( well at least it got you out of the house and maybe to the next town or two ). Today freedom to get out and see the world is available through our computers. I was thinking about something that I feel makes a big impact on how much we enjoy getting out and seeing things-that something is population growth. In my lifetime the worlds population has more than doubled. So the reality is getting out and taking a relaxing drive is much different now that it was 30 years ago for most of us. No fun to sit in heavy traffic or try and find a place to park in many cities or popular spots.

If I lived in a major city I most likely would not own a car like a Corvette. Just do not think it would be worth it and I most likely would be spending too much of my income on housing etc. to even have the extra cash to do it anyways. I will share some insight on the growth we are seeing in resto mods. It makes sense to take an older car and make it drive more like a newer car. But here is the thing, we see a '56 Corvette resto mod for example sell at auction for well over $100K and think what a great deal that was for the owner to get that much out of their old vette. What we forget about is how much money and time was put into that '56 vette. I work in the auto body industry so let me share some insight on what you can spend on a resto mod if you turn it over to a qualified shop to make your dream car a reality.

I spoke to an owner of a restoration shop in my region who had just finished a resto mod '56 vette. Now I work at a shop that handles insurance work mainly so I looked at this '56 vette and figured it probably had between $150K to $200K put into the project. Well even I was surprised to hear what really was spent on the car. The shop had almost 3500 hours into the car which at $90.00 per hour was already over $300K just in labor. Now add all the parts and materials put into the car and you had well over $400K spent on this resto mod. If the owner decided to sell the car you would see it go through the auction and lets say it fetched close to $200K you would think man that owner just made out like a bandit but in reality they just lost over $200K.
One thing people learn about "corvette guys" (used to be another term not so PC these days) is they are very cool, dressed very cool in CHEVY badging, and have all kinds of money to buy an AMERICAN sports car that not just any working class can get a loan for, or they laugh at the kid from DQ with his C4 they sported 20 years ago, or the guy that works by selling stuff on CL drives one.

I oTOH am so cool I don't eve call mine a vette since chevy built such a lame car it had to be made fun.

younger people are connecting to the brand.... they are seeing vette that copy imports and make youtube videos of them all raced out and riced out. Chevy made that move with the c6.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:52 AM
  #32  
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The shop had almost 3500 hours into the car which at $90.00 per hour was already over $300K just in labor.
That would be if it was figured on shop rate. If he is paying his help $15 or $20 per hour then the figure is much more realistic. Then when you add in parts you do have a sizable figure, but a shop cannot afford to take a hit like that and survive. I don't know of any body shop employees that make that kind of money.

More often it is the person who had the car built, grew tired of it and sold it at auction that takes the hit. That is where the $90 per hour comes into play. It cost the original purchaser over $300 to have built and then lost money, but for a lot of people, that kind of money is pocket change. I would never diverge who the actual people are, but when I was supporting a trust system for a major bank, you get to see the data (read that money, etc) when working in IT. There are people who have so much money that you can't imagine.

Them losing money is like us buying a car and then having it depreciate the moment the front wheels pass the curb leaving the dealership.

If a shop is using it for advertising purposes, I can see breaking even, but that much of a hit will put a shop out of business in a hurry.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:01 AM
  #33  
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Those kinds of shops play Tax games... or simply are a drug cover up / laundering like most "racers"/ shops.

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Old 03-13-2019, 10:22 AM
  #34  
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I suppose Foose and Kindig and the other big names that are building the high end restomods are tax cheats or fronts for illegal money ? Kindig has a net worth of $2.5 million while "Kev dog" only $250,000. You can't accumulate money like that and be giving it away. Now some of it comes from the TV shows, but....And they are very much in the public eye, if they were doing something illegal, it would surface pretty fast.

It didn't take long for that assh*le in Florida that ran Red Jacket Firearms to get outed and caught, and other ones on TV have been outed.

The family here that owns the "racer" team is being funded by their very successful businesses.

While the rich employ every manner they can to avoid or lessen the tax burden, it is in no way "cheating" in an illegal sense. Do folks of average wage consider it cheating, well yes, but that is the way the rich b$stards in Congress set it up. Entirely legal according to how it is written. Trust systems are geared towards making the most money for their clients so that the business administering the trusts can make a stack of money. So software and staffs are setup to maximize their clients wealth, through investments, reduction of taxes, doing schemes such as "maximum loss, minimum gain" to counter gains in other areas (for tax loss purposes), etc. I wrote and/or oversaw the implementation of numerous software projects that many would consider illegal but weren't. The concepts that the wealthy employ would make your head spin.

Last edited by drcook; 03-13-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:35 AM
  #35  
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More often it is the person who had the car built, grew tired of it and sold it at auction that takes the hit.
Bingo....a long term resto can burn one out $ mentally etc been there done that. Figured mine would take 20-30k and 2 yrs, also figured on everything doubling. I knew it would be a loss but was curious to see how well somethingcould ride/run that was older than I
10 yrs and over 90k later it could be driven....project burn out for sure, sacrificed the Z to finish it.
Even though it appraises for $65 it never got an offer over 25k with lots of 15 and 20k lowballs and ebay insults
2 chitty body shops, faulty machine work, flaky people in general wears on ya

Thats the old car market, its dying. After trying for over a year it sunk in....no big deal I love driving it.
The C4s that are spectacular will always bring better $ but i doubt someone gonna pay big $ except the most die hards
The C5Z guys are still hoping a 30k mi example can bring mid-high 20s but there are decent C6Z in that price range
Whats good is lots of desirable toys are getting cheaper, nothing wrong with that. Paid 2200 for mine in the 90s...
The beat goes on!

Last edited by cuisinartvette; 03-13-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:42 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by drcook View Post
I suppose Foose and Kindig and the other big names that are building the high end restomods are tax cheats or fronts for illegal money ? Kindig has a net worth of $2.5 million while "Kev dog" only $250,000. You can't accumulate money like that and be giving it away. Now some of it comes from the TV shows, but....And they are very much in the public eye, if they were doing something illegal, it would surface pretty fast.

It didn't take long for that assh*le in Florida that ran Red Jacket Firearms to get outed and caught, and other ones on TV have been outed.

The family here that owns the "racer" team is being funded by their very successful businesses.

While the rich employ every manner they can to avoid or lessen the tax burden, it is in no way "cheating" in an illegal sense. Do folks of average wage consider it cheating, well yes, but that is the way the rich b$stards in Congress set it up. Entirely legal according to how it is written. Trust systems are geared towards making the most money for their clients so that the business administering the trusts can make a stack of money. So software and staffs are setup to maximize their clients wealth, through investments, reduction of taxes, doing schemes such as "maximum loss, minimum gain" to counter gains in other areas (for tax loss purposes), etc. I wrote and/or oversaw the implementation of numerous software projects that many would consider illegal but weren't. The concepts that the wealthy employ would make your head spin.
I did not name names, and definitely am referring to the average Joe that has "stacks" to put down on racing. Since you mentioned it though, yes I am positive that one of the TV show guys is a scammer and is on TV or was.. he was a known scumbag decades before he made it on tv.

I have had and been part owner in businesses and know the system and my account will always be richer than me or anybody I know, because he is smarter and now lives in Dubai.

i'm not jealous, or pointing fingers. I'm specifically talking about guys that are racing out of shops, or their houses for serious stacks of cash. I know plenty of them.

Some people can't believe my C4 that are ignorant and uninformed. I am informed and know of people and know what it takes to make money and how much one can spend on playing. Working for money makes money not go too far. I made $125/hr for years. That is not enough to keep up with some local "racers".

As far as the big names you mentioned... From what I know of the millionaires I do, those guys you mentioned just have that much better lawyers and accountants etc than the people below them. it is how it works. Public eye does not stop crime or bad behavior.

The creep you mentioned with the guns... he went decades if I rell being a bad person if the stuff was true. i don't know much on the subject though, I did not follow it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:08 AM
  #37  
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Flaunting how much money you make is bad form. It diminishes you.

We all know the system is rigged.
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