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after riding in a Tesla sedan and seeing how many cramped, expensive modern supercars it beats in everyday usable acceleration - I think the gas sportscar for the weekend driver is done.
sure there is a market for road racing corner carvers, but thats not most people.
so this being mid engine isnt leaps and bounds technology.
T
front motor it was already 50/50 weight distribution
while I agree tesla performance models are dam impressive and will reshape the automotive lamdscape
the c8 will be awesome...
2022 will be the onslaught of ev s conquering ICE vehicles
GM isnt reaching the edge on performance with the C7, that's some bullshit that journalists made up. The C7 zr1 already outperforms all the midengine cara, the only car faster is a 300k+ rear engine Porsche. And it uses cheater race tires to set laps, not the stock tires it rides on.
I'm a young guy that GM is supposedly targeting. Do I dream about mid engine cars? Rarely, but sure. But not mid engine vettes, I dream about the brands, not the midengine. Heck my favorite Ferrari has the engine in the front! We dream about Lambos mor because they're mid engine, but because ALL WE CAN DO IS DREAM ABOUT THEM. Nothing about a midengine car is lost worthy, it's the price, the exoticness, the prestige that makes people lost after these cars. The insane styling, the crazy sounds, the looks and stares and ridiculous paint... people dream about a life where they have so much money they dont give a ****, not just a car with an engine in the middle.
You build Corvette as a budget Lambo, people will laugh because at that level, buying a budget anything means you're not as rich.
I watched the video where Bob Lutz from GM talked about how Tadge Juechter, Chief Engineer of Corvette was already pushing for a mid engine vette before the C7 came out because he was already seeing limit issues with the front engine platform. They were able to get some more performance by extending the wheel base on the C7 etc. but this is not just some bullshit that journalists made up.
I applaud GM for making the move to the new platform if for no other reason it shows they are willing to push the envelope and step outside their comfort zone. It has been a very long time since the average younger person has been captivated by the Corvette. Sure there are still younger people who day dream about owning a new Corvette but surely not anywhere near the majority. I for one would buy a front engine Ferrari over a mid engine one but I am not in the majority either.
Hard to believe how many older vette owners are still talking about the shape of a tail lamp. Reminds me of how the V-rod was not accepted by the older Harley riders and we all know the trouble Harley Davidson is in now getting younger riders interested in their product.
I disagree with you sentiment that younger people arent captivated by corvettes. Once exposed to them in a "I could own this car" manner, its game on. Before I bought mine I wasnt a huge fan, but I felt like it was a checklist item, every American Male should own a vette at some point.
I think the issue is that people assume they cost a lot more than they do, and a lot of vette owners are ******** to younger kids. I know even when I was a 27 year old with a house and a vette old guys acted like ducks to me because they had an 80k mile 2005, and wanted to float to me about how "one day I will maybe be successful enough to have one". They hated when I told them I already had one newer than theirs. Young guys like myself just werent exposed to them, because we grew up around less expensive import cars, and so the idea of owning a vette never crossed our minds. I was looking for a 370z or a Cayman before I bought my first vette, sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I had gotten the 370z, it was a lot more fun than the c6 tbh. The c6 sold me with the targa roof, and cheaper insurance.
I dont thi k theres ab issue with having a midengine car. I just dont think its smart for it to be your corvette. You could name it whatever else you wanted, build it alongside the vette, and nobody would care. But if you replace the standard car that has done well for over 65 years with something totally different, that's brand suicide.
Imagine if Ford was like "people like F150, but they also like SUVs,. For us to push F150 to the next limit of performance for customers, we are making it into a 3 row SUV. Its inconceivable and stupid, and exactly what GM did
...and a lot of vette owners are ******** to younger kids.
^^^ x10
I think a lot of them are just aholes, period. They're the kind of people who buy a Vette as some sort of ftarded "statement" To be seen driving it. To say they own one.
I really don't think they have a real appreciation for the car. It's almost like a fashion accessory. I don't even think they bought it for themselves to enjoy.
They're like Harleys in a way.. I find that I like the machine itself much more than some of the people who own them.
But the actual car guys are always a cool bunch and the Vette "car guys" seem much more adroit than most. A pleasure to be around.
I dont thi k theres ab issue with having a midengine car. I just dont think its smart for it to be your corvette. You could name it whatever else you wanted, build it alongside the vette, and nobody would care. But if you replace the standard car that has done well for over 65 years with something totally different, that's brand suicide.
Imagine if Ford was like "people like F150, but they also like SUVs,. For us to push F150 to the next limit of performance for customers, we are making it into a 3 row SUV. Its inconceivable and stupid, and exactly what GM did
I kind of agree with this....but I think it has more to do with timing/market position. I think if the 'Vette had gone mid engine in the 70's (As in the AeroVette), or the 80's (as in the Corvette INDY) it could have been instantly received as world class/world beating...or "the obvious next step for the Corvette". Why? I believe that back then, the 'Vette was perceived as a tech leader/cutting edge....a test bed for upcoming GM tech, back then. The C4 was obviously loaded with tech that NO other car had when it came out, and GM continued to add it throughout the C4 run. If the next car after the C4 was THIS:
...that would have made complete sense to me at the time and been the essence of "futuristic, right now". Parley the new, high tech LT5 into a new high tech ME platform....The transition would have been an obvious one to me, at that time.
I feel that changed radically w/ the C5 where it was forced into becoming more "cheap" due to GM's financial situation at the time. The C6 wasa low content/tech car too, IMO. In more recent years, trucks, Cadillac's and other products have had more cutting edge tech than the 'Vette, IMO, and that has gradually changed the perception of the brand. I understand that the C8 will feature CAN bus tech and many other cutting edge features and it's poised to be GM's tech leader again. But at this point, I agree w/Fauee....it's more like a product that ought to come from Caddy at this point...not Chevy/Corvette.
I applaud GM for making the move to the new platform if for no other reason it shows they are willing to push the envelope and step outside their comfort zone. It has been a very long time since the average younger person has been captivated by the Corvette. Sure there are still younger people who day dream about owning a new Corvette but surely not anywhere near the majority. I for one would buy a front engine Ferrari over a mid engine one but I am not in the majority either.
I don't know what you mean by young people but I don't think teens today are dreaming about Corvettes or Ferraris. The younger generation is more disinterested in cars than at any time in my life. Obviously there are exceptions, but that is the rule.
I kind of agree with this....but I think it has more to do with timing/market position. I think if the 'Vette had gone mid engine in the 70's (As in the AeroVette), or the 80's (as in the Corvette INDY) it could have been instantly received as world class/world beating...or "the obvious next step for the Corvette". Why? I believe that back then, the 'Vette was perceived as a tech leader/cutting edge....a test bed for upcoming GM tech, back then. The C4 was obviously loaded with tech that NO other car had when it came out, and GM continued to add it throughout the C4 run. If the next car after the C4 was THIS:
...that would have made complete sense to me at the time and been the essence of "futuristic, right now". Parley the new, high tech LT5 into a new high tech ME platform....The transition would have been an obvious one to me, at that time.
I feel that changed radically w/ the C5 where it was forced into becoming more "cheap" due to GM's financial situation at the time. The C6 wasa low content/tech car too, IMO. In more recent years, trucks, Cadillac's and other products have had more cutting edge tech than the 'Vette, IMO, and that has gradually changed the perception of the brand. I understand that the C8 will feature CAN bus tech and many other cutting edge features and it's poised to be GM's tech leader again. But at this point, I agree w/Fauee....it's more like a product that ought to come from Caddy at this point...not Chevy/Corvette.
Tom, you just busted me.
that is a mid engine car that GM successfully made....
I wonder how many they made?
that was a bad a$$ car. Called the CERV or something like that.
my wife one day came home with a very detailed diecast car model she found at the thrift store. She thought it was ‘cool’ so she bought it for the kids. It wAs a CERV like that !
Here is the thing... Imagine a world where ford makes a mid engine car and it is still 35-50K or even 70k but more hp? EFFFF GM... they suck and they stole OUR money. The vettes and other cars are WAY over priced. The c8 might be different and cool, but in the end it will still be sold as an overpriced toy for middle class guys or now kids with youtube channels.
If viper came back and was 60-70k I wonder if the C8 would still be such a big deal?
All these people going nuts over a car made on an assembly line where minivans and other cars are pumped out. Those stupid wraps on it and the styling to me c4 is what the kids call "try hard".
Last edited by pologreen1; 04-17-2019 at 08:58 PM.
that is a mid engine car that GM successfully made....
I wonder how many they made?
that was a bad a$$ car. Called the CERV or something like that.
my wife one day came home with a very detailed diecast car model she found at the thrift store. She thought it was ‘cool’ so she bought it for the kids. It wAs a CERV like that !
Yep, that thing was FBA. THAT should have been the C5.
I believe the first iteration of that car was called the CERV (Corvette Experimental Research Vehicle). The later version of it (pictured above) was re-named Corvette Indy. It's interesting to me that it looks like it had a Gen II LT5...way back in '86??
I just took those pics last week when I was at the NCM. Very cool to finally see that car in person.
I don't know what you mean by young people but I don't think teens today are dreaming about Corvettes or Ferraris. The younger generation is more disinterested in cars than at any time in my life. Obviously there are exceptions, but that is the rule.
I spend a lot of time at cars and coffees and car shows so I meet a lot of younger kids that are very interested in cars. Now I am 54 years old so when I say young people I am talking about kids that are under 10 years old to "kids" in their 20's. What I am seeing on a weekly basis is the vast majority of kids more interested in a WRX, Civic, 370Z, Supra and GTR than in Corvettes. Now I live in Idaho so we do not have very many Lambo's etc showing up to a cars and coffee but when they do it is like a magnet to steel-the kids just surround the super cars. What I see over and over again is a very nice Z06 C7 sitting at a cars and coffee or show and literally no kids are checking it out.
Since I have a vette I pay attention to this and the vast majority of younger kids and younger adults are just not paying attention to the Corvettes. There will always be exceptions but at least in my area of the country it just is not happening and I suspect one of the reasons is the kids are able to buy a Civic or even a STI etc. as one of their first cars so they get connected to that type of car just like many of us were able to buy older Firebirds and Mustangs etc. when we were getting started buying our first cars.
I do not see a big connection with Kids today and what I would term a " muscle car ". No big surprise to me that a Corvette with it's big V8 is just not that big a deal to the vast majority of the kids that I am meeting. I have no idea how all this is going to play out long term as more and more younger adults are choosing not to even buy a econo car let alone a high performance type car. I know when I was a kid I dreamed about owning a car like a Corvette and never a car like a Civic.
I often wonder what the heck is going to happen when all the baby boomers are no longer around to bid on the older muscle cars that we grew up with. I suspect a high end car auction 20 years from now will see a low mileage WRX bring more money than a very nice 1969 Corvette. Seems crazy for a guy like me in my mid 50's but I really think this could happen because it will be the young kids of today that will be bidding at the auctions 20 years from now.
Yep, that thing was FBA. THAT should have been the C5.
I believe the first iteration of that car was called the CERV (Corvette Experimental Research Vehicle). The later version of it (pictured above) was re-named Corvette Indy. It's interesting to me that it looks like it had a Gen II LT5...way back in '86??
I just took those pics last week when I was at the NCM. Very cool to finally see that car in person.
I too am very happy to see Chevy/GM investing in the mid-engine (MR) design, it's as good as a sports car can get without AWD and will pave the way for even better, higher-performance designs as new technology and refinement come with time. But I am *very* concerned that the FR layout will be killed off, that would be a stupid thing to do but we will have to see how this story plays out. There is a market for both configurations: traditional FR sports car starting at $60k and MR supercar starting at $120k+.
Front engine rwd sports gt duty will move to the revolutionary camaro in its seventh iteration if it even makes it.
the retro theme of the successful fifth gen camaro came to a skretching halt with the similiar looking excellent platform sixth gen camaro...
i fully expect the slow seling excellent platform of the sixth gen camaro to move to a ferrari portofino type styling to join the rear mid engine corvette in offering every day americans a chance of owning the best america has to offer
id buy a camaro v8 that looked like ferrari portifino...
god dam that 2 plus 2 is good looking...
with corvette goung rear mid engine...it gives the camaro team the option or opportunity to go that route..
(from a styling standpoint...as the performance of the sixth gen camaro is already almost on par with the portofino if you look at the stats...
I think a lot of them are just aholes, period. They're the kind of people who buy a Vette as some sort of ftarded "statement" To be seen driving it. To say they own one.
I really don't think they have a real appreciation for the car. It's almost like a fashion accessory. I don't even think they bought it for themselves to enjoy.
They're like Harleys in a way.. I find that I like the machine itself much more than some of the people who own them.
But the actual car guys are always a cool bunch and the Vette "car guys" seem much more adroit than most. A pleasure to be around.
No silly pretentiousness there.
That's definitely the case where I live. 'Vette owners here are typically the 55+ crowd. They're the ones that buy a C7 Z06, and drive 10 under the limit, and even slower in the twisties. Drives me mental! Why spend $100k on such a fast and capable car, only to drive it like a soccer mom in a crossover?! A Corvette isn't even a status symbol in the Bay Area. Most people wouldn't even know what one is, much less what it costs. I suspect a vette isn't a status symbol anywhere, given the production numbers, and it being a Chevy.
I'm looking forward to the C8, just to see what GM can do. It won't attract many young buyers, and the old farts will scoff at it for not being a"true Corvette". Same thing happened with the C6, loads of people scoffed at the flip up headlights disappearing, thus making it no longer a Corvette. Never mind the C1 apparently, lol. Back to the young buyers, the ones that can afford it, will not be considering it. They'll be looking at foreign cars, just as they've been doing, as in AMG, BMW, Porsche, and of course the italian flavors. Of course they'll flock around those at shows and meets, because it's not everyday you see them. A Corvette is a common sight, depending on where you live. A 488 or Aventador SV, not so much.
Stop calling us over 55 year old guys old farts...you ll get there on day too and you wont feel like an old fart either..
(kidding)
Haha, I'll be calling myself an old fart by then, no doubt about it! I'd much rather hang out with a group of old timers than people my own age anyways. Interesting stories and lots to learn!
Were the NSX and Audi R8 called “the Dollar Store Lambo when they came out just because they were mid engined and cheaper than the Lambo? No..and I’m expecting the C8 to be a far better car than the 90-05 NSX’s in every aspect except maybe engine reliability and almost as good a car as the current Audi R8 for half the price....it will probably be better in a lot of areas...
04-16-2019, 08:06 PM
