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I didn't find the C5Z raw at all. And much like most magazines tests it's the car your mother could drive every day without issue. They are very civil but run like hell when pushed. Raw though is not a word I would equate with the C5Z.
C5Z is an easy car to live with day to day but drive a C6Z or C7Z like you can a C5Z and you will end up dead and do so quickly. I didn't find the C5Z raw at all. And much like most magazines tests it's the car your mother could drive every day without issue. They are very civil but run like hell when pushed. Raw though is not a word I would equate with the C5Z. It's an awesome car but nothing even remotely close to a Viper of the same vintage. That's not a slight against the C5Z, that's a compliment of the engineering. The only "raw" feeling is maybe the way the power comes on like a rush vs how the LS2 feels more linear.
The C5Z is track capable but not track ready. 01 had ring seat issue, 02/early 03 need valve springs swapped, rear diff needs cooling help, tranny cooler, 04 are an upgrade over the prior years shocks but aftermarket are leaps and bounds above, 01 weak shift fork, windows that pop away from the body on high speed runs, pretty sad seats for lateral holding and terrible stock shifter.
That being said the C5Z is one of the best deals on a super high performance car out there. Easy to mod and fun to drive and I would be proud to have one. I loved both my LS3 cars, especially the one that produced 700 hp. lol turn all the nannies off on that and you have a raw car. My soon to be 750 hp Camaro SS WTH no traction control is going to be raw but that's what it's built for.
This stigma of the Viper being a shoddy handler and easy to crash is because you had people used to driving Vettes with 245 hp jump in a 450 torque vehicle and try to drive it the same way. You cant drive it like that. It takes restraint when you have that much power.
Please don't think I am bashing your C5Z, those are great cars. More interested in your C4 though.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but it's a lot different when you live with one compared to maybe a test drive. Not sure how a sports car with hardly any insulation, screaming LS6 motor that revs to nearly 7000RPM and a stock titanium exhaust that sounds like a pissed off Ferrari is not raw. A base C6 is a caddy compared to any Z. And even though the C6Z is faster than the C5Z, it's not anywhere as RAW. And if you don't believe me ask anyone who's owned both. Coming back to the Viper and the subject of this thread, I've always felt the Viper with its clamshell hood was an extreme version of the C4. When I'm driving or taking the Lingenfelter to car shows and open up that awesome clamshell hood, I feel like its the original Viper.
Agreed will some points but we agree to disagree on others.
The C5Z I dove was not a test drive. Many miles/hour behind the wheel to come to my conclusion. When I talk raw I mean power. Sorry, 400 HP is not raw in my book, it might be in yours but my truck has that much power. Not saying it is as fast but having Vettes from 205 HP, 300, 430, and 700.....400 is anything but raw feeling but it's what you're accustomed to. The power delivery is kinda raw from the LS6 but it's not scary. The C6Z to me felt more raw in that it would run over top of a C5Z with relative ease and also rev to 7k.
The C5Z was two faced in how it goes from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde but you could drive it 100k miles as the mild mannered Doctor if you didn't go over 3.5k RPM's. However, the Mr. Hyde side is more mild than the C6Z. The LS7 seems less transformable because the larger displacement makes much more torque off the bottom so you do not get that "Wow!" When the power starts to really come on.
C5Z is what turned the corner, in my opinion, of a kick *** track capable Corvette that could actually hang with the Euro gang. I know, C4 track cars in the 80s...
Last edited by TLS_Addict; 05-21-2019 at 02:54 PM.
Agreed will some points but we agree to disagree on others.
The C5Z I dove was not a test drive. Many miles/hour behind the wheel to come to my conclusion. When I talk raw I mean power. Sorry, 400 HP is not raw in my book, it might be in yours but my truck has that much power. Not saying it is as fast but having Vettes from 205 HP, 300, 430, and 700.....400 is anything but raw feeling but it's what you're accustomed to. The power delivery is kinda raw from the LS6 but it's not scary. The C6Z to me felt more raw in that it would run over top of a C5Z with relative ease and also rev to 7k.
The C5Z was two faced in how it goes from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde but you could drive it 100k miles as the mild mannered Doctor if you didn't go over 3.5k RPM's. However, the Mr. Hyde side is more mild than the C6Z. The LS7 seems less transformable because the larger displacement makes much more torque off the bottom so you do not get that "Wow!" When the power starts to really come on.
C5Z is what turned the corner, in my opinion, of a kick *** track capable Corvette that could actually hang with the Euro gang. I know, C4 track cars in the 80s...
We're bridging the gap here. Everyone knows the LS6 motor was closer to 430hp than 405hp. But regardless, you're talking about a car that only weighs 3000 pounds and with the short gearing simply takes off, especially when you put on some sticky tires on it. Official numbers were 0-60 3.9 sec and many publications managed to get a 1/4 time in the 11's and that was with the crappy F1 tires at that time. A lotus Elise only has 190hp but with a 2200 weight it's pretty damn quick and raw...anyway back to the Viper. Sorry to all, at least we were still talking about a Corvette and not some Prius.
I didn't know that. And I owned one! You'll have to tell the chassis dyno that info, b/c it didn't seem to agree.
Read and heard that from people who have/had one. Here's even one from the CF. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nderrated.html I had a CTS-V II with 556hp and the Z feels a little faster, the much lower weight (-1300 pounds) has a lot to do with it.
Pure and utter speculation combined with a healthy dose of wishful thinking. My LS6 put down 338 RWHP. That ain't no "430" crank hp. Now way, no how. It's a 405 horse engine, just like GM says it is.
Did you even read the thread that you linked?? Most of the posters (who've actually dyno'ed their cars) put down right around 360 RWHP. My C6 (LS2) put down 366 RWHP. Does that mean that the LS2 is under rated and actually 435-440 hp?
Of course it doesn't mean that. It means that people who want to make big hp claims are using the wrong correction for drive train losses to get big bad, bragging numbers. The LS6 is a 405 horse motor.
Everyone knows the LS6 motor was closer to 430hp than 405hp.
There seems to be lots of fluff when it comes to LS motors. Everyone who owns an LS1/3/4/6/7/9 etc. thinks the engine is underrated.... It's almost like a brain disease you get when you buy your first LS car.
Perfectly fine with 405hp in such a light and tight car. Pretty easy to mod these cars w/ H/C/I and a tune makes them well over 430hp... But, I like the balance and the bulletproof nature of these beasts the way they naturally are. Only thing I've done so far is change up the tires, alignment, lowered it a little on stock bolts and just installed a Hurst classic ****, highly recommend the Hurst. Obviously all the fluids were changed as well. Now is the time to get these cars before they shoot up in price like the C4 ZR1.
You and your C4's...haha. Ok, here goes. Ten years ago I was looking to get something light, def a convertible/ targa and something powerful, yet unique. You don't see too many C4's and since I was barely a teenager C4 was my favorite car along with Ferrari 308. I had and still have every car magazine and matchbox/ hotwheels car with the C4. It was a spaceship, an extension of my beloved Atari 2600, it was the future, it was excitement, it was hope, it was sleek and beautiful and it was a dream like many kids back then to one day own one. When I finally found this one owner low mile car, after a long search I was instantly in love. It looked like the car I seen years ago in a car magazine, also a Lingenfelter. Never thought I would ever like a purple car, but this one with its unique Lingenfelter purple and black ZR-1 wheels pops at you. The paint has timy crystals when you get close and it really shines at night but yet is almost invisible/ blends into the night. It's #108 out of 128, fully built, taken apart at Lingenfelter and replaced with racing parts. It sounds like nothing I've ever heard and drives like a purpose built, solid as a rock sports car. In the ten years since I've bought it, besides normal fluid changes, I haven't had anything else to fix or replace. It's fun taking this thing to car shows and see people's reaction but it's even more fun to go on nice long drives. I will never sell it even though I've been offered a lot more than what I paid for it at car shows (Bloomington Gold) and at local Chevrolet Dealership with a corvette shop. Thanks for asking!
LOL @ people talking about raw and a 20-30 year old car in the same sentence. An '84 z51 was "raw" for what it was and the people cried about it. Early Vipers were / are "raw". No top, barely, windows, stick, and felt out of control when you got nutsy.
I am confident a wild built c4 with no frills is more "raw" than most here would ever want to drive for more than a few minutes.
Raw to me is loud, stinky, shaky, manual or requires focus, road noise, feel every bump with your guts and teeth, feel a little uneasy in the driver seat, manual steering, feel like your skill is below the level of the car's potential. A car that Commands/ Demands attention and focus is a raw car to me. Anything newer is the opposite of that by DESIGN.
Take an old MG and put 250+hp in it.... Raw. AC Cobra... Raw. Viper... Refined "raw". Newer Corvette... Seat heaters, sophisticated suspension, etc "raw" veggie platter.
Last edited by pologreen1; 05-22-2019 at 11:03 AM.
I am confident a wild built c4 with no frills is more "raw" than most here would ever want to drive for more than a few minutes.
Raw to me is loud, stinky, shaky, manual or requires focus, road noise, feel every bump with your guts and teeth, feel a little uneasy in the driver seat, manual steering, feel like your skill is below the level of the car's potential. A car that Commands/ Demands attention and focus is a raw car to me. Anything newer is the opposite of that by DESIGN
....and not me! I built this specifically b/c I wanted no nannies, no frills, hard/loud/RAW. And love it!
05-20-2019, 11:11 PM
My soon to be 750 hp Camaro SS WTH no traction control is going to be raw but that's what it's built for.
Everyone knows the LS6 motor was closer to 430hp than 405hp. But regardless, you're talking about a car that only weighs 3000 pounds and with the short gearing simply takes off, especially when you put on some sticky tires on it. Official numbers were 0-60 3.9 sec and many publications managed to get a 1/4 time in the 11's and that was with the crappy F1 tires at that time. A lotus Elise only has 190hp but with a 2200 weight it's pretty damn quick and raw...anyway back to the Viper. Sorry to all, at least we were still talking about a Corvette and not some Prius.
