Jet-Jock

I agree more with this notion than writing a check. The check business could be taken as purposely writing a bad check. Whereas with the credit card, you can legally dispute the charge stating the reasons why (color match damage to top etc.) then go through the negotiations.

One post was correct, without your property in your possession, they could slap a mechanics lien on it. So your best to get it back in your hands at this point with a paid in full invoice. Your probably going to reach a point soon that either he or you is not going to be nice anymore and your probably going to lose patience with it.

No matter what happens be nice. You don't want to have to deal with another issue when things get heated up. It's tough to do, but you have to remain the calm one. Keep in mind you still have options.

After you have the vehicle back, write a certified return-receipt letter discribing the issues with the work performed. Don't get emotional, don't write a book, just state the facts and keep it brief. Give them a reasonable amount of time to address the issues. Say 10 business days or something. This is to support your case in the event you pursue legal action.

Probably at this point your not going to want them to do the re-work (re-paint) because no matter what there are going to be hard feelings on their part. They are having to redo the job, its costing them in labor and materials, so their profit (incentive) is gone.

If your not satisfied with their work now, why are you negotiating with them to do more work? I think I would get the first issues resolved then decide if you want them for the molding job or anythign else. Why not buy the parts at discount and do it yourself?

As far as the color quality I have to agree with Mojo, et.al. Dark Green Metallic II (Polo Green) is a very green color. There is no mistaking it for black. Even at night. I am in agreement that they have probably loaded the wrong color code and got BG Green.

Unless this shop used an acrylic enamel, they should have been doing a base coat - clear coat. And unless you had the vehicle stripped completely and repainted, you'll have areas of original paint to compare against (door jam, hatch-top area, inside hood). Polo Green does have a tendency to alter shades depending on the type of light and intensity. For example in direct sun lights its a solid green, but in dusk in can appear almost emerald. Cloudy days can make it look flat. Florescent lights will make the color appear the way it is suppose to and it will also show any imperfections. If you don't have any installed in your garage, take it to a local gas station. They always use florescent lights in the overheads at the pumps.

I think its going to get nasty with regards to the scratched transparent roof. For the GM hardcoated top its about 1200. for a cheaper replacement your looking just under 700. Obviously the lesser doesn't have the hard coating for scratch protection. If they buff it, it will remove the hard coating. And its a piece of acrylic, once it is scratched, that's it. The reason I say nasty is because it may very likely turn in to a he said she said deal, in other words you claim it was fine they said it was there. Unless your lucky and they own up to it, it will either be a small claim court suit or an insurance claim for vandalism while at the shop or in-between. Pictures are fine, but time-date stamping is important. It always good, (grass is greener) to do a walk around with them before you hand your vehicle over for service of any kind. My local chevy dealer does that with each client, heck rental car companies do that too before they turn you loose with their car. Had this been done it would not be a question now.

I hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction. It sucks when you voluntarily do business with someone expecting a quality job and they end up being a bad company to have done business with. And then they become royal pains to resolve issues.

Good luck.

scorp508

In the eyes of the court that is theft. You'll have to pay up front and then go to court hoping to get your $ back.

VenkmanP

No it isn't. It's one of the services provided by credit card issuers.

The other idea of paying with a bad check is illegal, but using your credit card company to fight for you is a great idea.

Whether the card company will actually do this for you is another matter, and probably depends on your relationship with the card issuer. Most of them will fight for you on online or telephone orders, but I'm not sure about something like this.

Jet-Jock

Yes, it does depend on the level or grade of credit card services you have. It's sometimes known as a warranty usually from Visa. Disputing the charge until some form of satisfaction is obtained is not illegal. Intentionally writing a bad check would be.

Shortimer

I owned a '95 coupe that was Polo Green Metallic II and it was clearly green and the metallic was very noticeable, especially in bright sunlight. Good luck with your paint issues.

C5VetteLS1

I agree that writing a bad check (insufficient funds) is illegal. However the entire concept of (stop payment) offered by banks, is not illegal. This concept was created to protect the consumer from poor services rendered ... and/or later discovered. The only point questionable in what I mentioned, would be putting the stop-pay on the check a day or two prior to payment. I'd still do it just to be sure it wouldn't clear. I'm pretty sure any judge would understand that he did this to regain possession of his vehicle. If he wants to be sure all is legal and above board, fine, put a stop-pay on the check from a cell phone the moment he pulls out of their parking lot.

nx-01

Gentlemen,

Thank you for responding and for the advice that has been given.

I have created a few mins ago, two pages that show the C4 at the bodyshop outside and the car parked at the storage location that I used (where the hood was hit by the rear of the RV). If you have a modem connection, it will be slow since the pics were taken with a 2 meg pix camera.

Before:
http://homepage.mac.com/nx74205/C4Be...toAlbum11.html

At the Body Shop:
http://homepage.mac.com/nx74205/C4Bo...toAlbum10.html

Part Two:

I felt a little better today after viewing the car with some sun hitting the rear corner passenger side (see pics).

1) The door jam (passenger side - see pics) and inner door (both sides - see pics) need to be painted, Jim said he does not know how it was missed. I showed Jim the black areas. There were no black areas when I dropped off the car. It also looked like (on the passenger side door jam), some of the old paint was chipping off. It was the old paint since it looked a bit brighter then the rest of the body. Jim asked me if the doors were ever replaced. I said not under my ownership. I told him that the previous owner's wife had a truck hit her in the back. He said the looked like black glossy. It was more flat black in my mind.

2) Jim is going to work with his glass guy "to see if he can get the two scratches filled in with the clear stuff, just like when you get a stone chip in the windshield". I indicated that to him that might not work and that I did not have those scratches before (see original post). Jim said that he trusted me. He asked again the price of a new top, I told him $1200. He went on to day lets see where it goes from here. (so $1200 would be a loss to the shop but they own 4 shops now and I found out the owner owns a Mercedes car dealership).

3) The paint code....so someone was in the office, a guy named Jeff. Jim asked Jeff to talk to someone (I forget the name) to get the paint code. Jeff then said to me "the code is somewhere in the car". I did tell him it was the 91U (Polo Green Metallic). He found it after some searching...door jam label, popping up the hood, looking near the battery...ahhh it's under the center glove box lid. "It must be the right code that the car was painted" he stated. I am going back later next week (see below) and I will ask to show me proof of the color code.

4) Jim had a phone call, I told him he could take it since I was not going anywhere. While he placed the customer on hold and looking something up on the computer, I asked him how the car was painted. He told me, but as soon as he finished he picked up the phone and I totally forgot what he said and I forgot to ask him when I came back inside after talking to Jeff. I am going to be back at the shop later next week - see below.

5) I forgot to ask why the car was moved from Wayne to West Chester and why I was not notified. I will ask next week - see below.

6) The scratches are going to be buffed out.

I am going back later next week to drop off the antenna that I am replacing since it is 14 years old and much easier to replace now (rear bumper off and antenna is hanging).

I am going to order the outer molding for the car. I asked Jim if his shop would get a better price vs. me. He indicated that the shop does not know of any Chevy Dealership that they do regular business, to get a discount. I had made up a list of the GM part numbers for the outer molding to give to Jim so he can order it. I will call a local GM parts department or I have seen reference to Superior Chevy in Kansas City that has a 5% discount.

Thank you again for your time and assistance in this matter guys...if I could buy all you guys a lunch I would in thanks.

Take care...John

JrRifleCoach

Now thats a trick to remember!

Oly

Check my signature picture, it was taken on a sunny day. That's the original factory paint; most people are surprised when they get up close to it, their original perception is that it's black.

redvtt

I looked at your pics.
My Theory #2: I think I know what they possilby did & why it came out dark:

They sprayed a black base coat under the color coat (that's the color in the jams). They didn't use enough of the actual color coat (green metallic base) to show up over the black coat. The green base coat is thin enough to be very transparent, letting the black color thru. It probably looked good in the booth (& wet), but changed outside, or started to change when clear was applied, then they just left it (to save time).

Why? Either the painter got it wrong (not enough color coat, don't want to mix any more or can't) and/or he used some black under the base coat (it's cheap) to save money (another Oldie but Goodie!)! That base is probably about $450 to $550 a gallon, they might of used 2 (or 3) quarts instead of 3 (or 4). The additional to be used on the fairings.

The job looks good overall, but now they gotta shoot the jams, another change in the color. Let's see how they deal with that.

If it were me (and I was definitely unhappy with the color), now's the time to push for another color coat. The disadvantage here is: you're adding more paint onto an already painted car. But, if it's not right ...

My .02

redvtt

Oly, does his first pic (with damage to R.R. quarter) look like yours in the sun? The shots he took are pretty clear.

What's the color code of your Vette?

redvtt

Oly

His does look a little darker up close. The color code for mine is: 45 - polo green II metalic.

redvtt

And his is: 91U (Polo Green Metallic) from:
3) The paint code....so someone was in the office, a guy named Jeff. Jim asked Jeff to talk to someone (I forget the name) to get the paint code. Jeff then said to me "the code is somewhere in the car". I did tell him it was the 91U (Polo Green Metallic). He found it after some searching...door jam label, popping up the hood, looking near the battery...ahhh it's under the center glove box lid. "It must be the right code that the car was painted" he stated. I am going back later next week (see below) and I will ask to show me proof of the color code.


Yours looks a lot closer to the new color than his original, doesn't it? Looks like they didn't look for the color code, picked it out of a color catalog instead.

StealDads67

I was under the impression there were 2 different Polo Greens. I think they changed the color slightly. They probably looked in the book and saw a Polo Green and used that one.

bsimard

I don't believe you're going to get anywhere with this outfit. They have screwed up too many things on too many occassions and on too many levels. Get your car out of there, take it to a reputable shop and have them fix the glass and do the repaint. Pay them then pursue shop 1 for the fix.

What a mess.

redwing76

I agree a black base is possible and indeed a lot of shops will use a dark base on an over all paint job.
I try to use the factory base color on a panel repair. if you don't you'll have a hard time with a color match especially a butt match.

The color doesn't look that bad in the photos but photos are hard to judge. It does look a little dark.

The paint that they used was probably Acyrlic Enamel. Its a standard for an over-all.

I've used Dupont Centari for 30 years and its probably the best out there. Centari is super depenable.

If everything else is ok I'd work on the top to get a adjustment for the repairs.
Good luck.

redvtt

There's not enough green in the base or it's transparent. It closely matches Oly's paint & as I illustrated, his color number is different.

Speculation: Used black as a base, got the wrong color number, mixed the paint themselves, with out enough green pigments. The combo of all 3 makes the grade. It does look good, but only if you don't mind a darker color. But, if something else happens to the car later, that'll be another mess! And, lets see how this individial "gets it right" when he touches up the jams. Probably another change in the color ...

jrp

Here's a good photo of my Polo Green '96 (not sure which code that is - might be 45U but I can't be sure without looking). Lots of different light & shade here to give you ideas, and it's pretty close to what it looks like in person.

I have no ideas for dealing with the shop, though. I hope I don't have to go through that kind of thing. Good luck to you.

Jet-Jock

Here's some pictures on the off topic link of base coat clear coat application:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=933374