goldeneye_vet

I have my aldl cable built and my first readings from WinALDL and am still quite confused. I did three recordings from idle, smooth drive, and WOT. My car runs good in sound but my mileage is suffering. The only thing I've noticed recently is that my cold start during the day has a fluctuation in idle. Sounds like it is going to die but still stays running and once warmed up is fine. I have no error codes other than what is in WinALDL for: DRP error flag, ALDL mode (10k Ohms), BLM enable flag, old high gear flag, rich flag, and closed loop flag. My 1985 vette has the following mods: open air lid, gutted MAF with no screens, all smog equip from diverter valves to pump has been removed (still have EGR valve though), true dual exhaust with LT headers and has recently had full tune up with cut back plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and timing has been set to 6*BTDC. With WinALDL I have the following readings. Note that these are from the smallest number to the largest:

smooth drive:
Sensor BLM=1-254
Sensor Rich/Lean Counter=1-254
Sensor INT=116-152
Sensor LV*=118

idle:
Sensor BLM=1-254
Sensor Rich/Lean Counter=1-254
Sensor INT=124-133
Sensor LV8=128

WOT:
Sensor BLM=185
Sensor Rich/Lean Counter=185
Sensor INT=128
Sensor LV8=128

I do have a heated Bosch o2 sensor; is this causing some of my problems with the BLM? Am I even close in assuming that the o2 sensor could be suspect? I do have the full readings in .xls format if one of the kind tuners on this board would be interested in looking them over. Looking at these logs and from the reading material on this board and thirdgen.org something just doesn't seem right. I'd like to get this worked out before I do my next round of mods of big mouth intake base and large tube runners. Thanks for taking the time to read this post and hopefully someone has an answer for me.

Thanks
goldeneye_vet

PS....Note: This is a factory chip to the best of my knowledge and no burning or different chip that I'm aware of has been placed in the ECM..hence stock car with the above listed mods. Car runs fine, strong, no smoke on start up but without cats it does smell a little strong at times.

Morley

You can send them to me if you like Khiester200035@comcast.net
From what you have posted there you are running rich at part throttle, idle is a little bit rich, but nothing to worry about "fixing" at this time.

goldeneye_vet

Thank you Morley. The data files have been emailed to you. Thanks for taking the time to look them over. I appreciate it!!!!

Morley

Bah! Its going to bounce back on you...got my own E mail address wrong...try it again.

goldeneye_vet

Files have been resent! Thanks again!!!!!!

Morley

Ok, first things first.
1) On the steady criuse your int (short term fuel trims) seems just fine but your BLM's are really out of wack. They range from 3 to 249. The normal reporting range of a PROM is 108-160.
2) Your MAT sensor reads 0 at all times
3) The MAF readings seem normal in relation to TPS.
4) You definately have a rich flag set.

Idle.
Again the INT seems fine but the BLM's are screwy, ranging from 1 to 254. If the BLM's were swinging that wildly the INT should be doing the same but faster.
The rich flag is switching off and on pretty regularly at idle.

First I'd do a through check for vacuum leaks, using propane or carb cleaner. Pay particular attention to the area where the cold start injector goes onto the LH runner.
Next, check for leaking injectors, especially the cold start injector.

goldeneye_vet

Thanks again Morley for the info. I will do a check tomorrow morning and go from there. I imagine if it proves to be leaking injectors that they should be replaced or is it the o-rings that have to be replaced? I bet after 20 years they haven't been cracked out of their home but soon will be with an intake change coming up.

Morley

Oh gawd...Those are the factory injectors in there still? Yeah, replace them. I replaced mine at 140k miles and they needed it, one was missing half of the plastic cap on the end and they were getting "lazy", not opening and closing as quickly and crisply as they should.
SLP seems to be out of the LS1 pull's they had for $99. Next best thing would be something like this http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp

goldeneye_vet

What to do about the 9th cold start injector? I have not looked at my helms today but is that just another injector like the other 8 or is it something special. Can it be removed if not needed or am I opening another can of worms by trying to eliminate it from the system? Thanks for looking at Summit. I was looking at www.fiveomotorsport.com for the pink top injectors at $267 however the $259 at Summit would be fine too. Some say not to go with Accel injectors. What is your take on that situation? You've been a big help so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Morley

The cold start injector is unique, it is like no other injector made, it has an integral fuel line that goes to the back of the fuel rail, The mounting flange is a partof the injector body and has an O ring that seals in a 7/8" hole in the runner flange.
To eliminate it you'd need to repin and splice your harness to use the 165 ECM and use a calpack for an 89 'Vette, or any 86-89 calpack with a custom burned prom using the 89 code. This is really a simple proceedure, it took me 3 hours to do the repin and splice, then 15 minutes to burn a prom for it.

The Accel injectors get bad reports from lots of people. I ran a set of their 24#'s for a few years but they wern't really 24#. I had to "lie" to the ECM and tell it they were 21# to get it run properly. I just installed an Accel base manifold and a set of the SLP LS1 pulls (25#) and set the injector constant to 25# and everything works fine (no lieing to the ECM)
Other than that, the Accel's worked fine for the time I had them installed.

goldeneye_vet

I'm going to go with the pink top ford injectors then and just replace the o-ring on the cold start injector. The repinning of the ecm isn't going to happen in this lifetime for me. In the next month or so I'll be doing my big mouth intake swap and addling large tube runners so the injector swap will work well. That should just about wrap up 2005 for vette fun as where I'm from November is pretty much the cut off and she goes back to hybernation for the winter. Betweet November and April of 2006 gives me time to save money so the forum can again blow it for me next summer. Can't help it I'm addicted! Almost like AA....yes my name is goldeneye_vet and I love my vette! Thanks for the info and I'll let you know how it goes with the swap of the injectors.

MrNuke

Don't go too deep into the BLM/INT numbers. They don't work the same on '85 vettes with the '187 ECM('871 I know ) as the 86+ with newer ECM's..
After all my tuning and car running AWESOME, my BLM is still counting from 1-254 and then restarts from 1 again.. It's been like that from the first time I hooked up a scantool and winaldl to the car..
I however have programmed a chip so at WOT I get 128 dead on for bext mixture..

goldeneye_vet

I'm going to have to agree Mr.Nuke! The car run's great and strong. No problems except for low mileage. I was going to purchase new injectors until I emailed Rich at Cruzin Performance and he says that he can clean them up and restore them factory fresh for $12 a peice. I can't beat that. I'll be doing my intake swap soon and possibly heads and a cam. I'm not going to worry about the readings. No codes at all but I do believe I have a sticking IAC motor as she wasn't running the best cold but as soon as I tapped on it with a hammer she started purring. I will clean that and should be good to go. Thanks for the info!