vetteman9368

anyone done this?

MarkBychowski

Not to be a smarta$$, but why?

I could maybe see some HP/weight/simplicity benefit on a pure drag car from going to manual steering. For street, roadrace, or autocross, the steering would be way too heavy. Most true racecars still use powersteering (non-dragrace).

The only difference between power brakes and non-power is the booster and usually a different ratio master cylinder, so you're not really gaining much except for a couple pounds on the booster. With any type of street or track driving, you're really going to struggle with manual brakes.

redrose

i am definitely gonna try no power steering when i drop the big block in, to save front end weight and avoid mounting bracket skirmishes...i've owned a bunch of earlier vettes, sedans,pick-ups without p/s and had no need for it--parallel parking was a bit pita,but i almost never do that anymore....my 68 c3/ big block was an autocross multiple winner w/o p/s.
deleting the power brakes would require a smaller piston master cyl and reqd longer pedal travel (prob 8:1 ratio manual vs 6:1 power) might be a problem, but far and away the best stopping vette i ever had was my 66 with manual brakes/ h.d. calipers (calipers were race car spares,not oem), and ''wide oval'' tires...pedal effort is higher than with power assist, but the brain adapts almost immediately ( at least back then it did)

AORoads

How about for simplicity's sake? Less things to go wrong? Such as a booster, or a pump. Primitive, but could work.

anesthes

Been there, done that..

Best manual rack are the pinto units. Flaming river makes 'em, their about 3.75 turns lock to lock, which compensates for the lack of power assist. I used to have the rack travel numbers and all that written down, but anyway.. It will work it just won't steer like a vette anymore.

It took me 10 years to realize this, but here goes: if you want a race car, buy a vega, or an older 2,800lbs nova. If you want a nice driving car, that you can race occaisional don't break properly functioning components with race only parts.

-- Joe

bogus

I find it VERY hard to believe that the 66 stopped better than a more modern car.

The chassis dyamics alone are enough to make me find this questionable.

I would leave both behind. The combination of a smaller steering wheel and huge, sticky modern radials will make an unboosted steering system a horrible thought.

hookedup

vetteman,

I did both on my car, Pinto stuff didn't work out so in went a custom unit, works great. Used the 1 1/8" Strange MC along with Aerospace 4 piston fronts and Strange 4 piston rears, no problem stopping.

Good luck,
Dave

vetteman9368

thanks, got any pics of the set up?

I have realized that my 93 is about 90% drag car, and about 10% street car. And it will be easy enough to turn the wheel with skinnys

hookedup

As soon as I get my camera back I'll take a few pic's.

Dave

redrose

. And it will be easy enough to turn the wheel with skinnys[/QUOTE]

i built an asphalt circle track car a couple years ago without p/s or p/b to keep weight off...used an early chevelle manual recirc ball strg box (fit rule book) that ended up about 2-1/4 turns lock to lock ... no problem to drive with 10'' wide, soft compound tires for me or others who took a few laps and were used to p/s cars...500 laps with interior temp of 140* might be different... the rather unique steering knuckle design of the c4 does allow low caster angle which will help a non-power set-up lower req'd effort.
some people pixx on non-power p/s and p/b because they have only experienced no assist when the engine quits on a car equipped with power assists and don't know that the assists are actually becoming a drag in that situation.... without p/s at rest or nearly so the steering effort is high, but over 5 mph you will never miss it...watching "drivers" crank their steering while sitting amuses me cause i know the damage those dummies are doing by using hydraulic rams on mechanisms that remain virtually the same as they were before power assist was marketed ...
be careful if using a rack&pinion without p/s...steering 'feedback' from an unusual wheel load can spin the steering wheel violently and has caused broken bones--broken thumbs are common in circle track mishaps...best to use a power rack without any pump but tie the l/r feed lines together to create a hydraulic damper ---you may need an orifice in the crossover to get damping...recirc ball strg is much less dangerous as it tends to jam and not spin the strg wheel thru your hands....see "paw saver" steering wheels in circle track parts catalogs

ralph

Redrose do you have any details or pictures of these steering modifications you describe? I'm trying to remove the pump on a C4 and there are 4 lines coming into the rack. 2 from the pump and 2 from the rack. Assuming i connect the 2 lines from the rack together, what do i do with the pump lines?

Have you ever doen it or is it just theory?

DanZ51

Ahh, IIRC I think my '86 has about 7 degrees of caster. Definately NOT "low caster" (I think the later year C4s dropped back to 3-4*).

redrose

your 86 should have about 6* caster per the FSM....the steering knuckle , contrary to the illustration in the FSM ,has the spindle shaft located OFF the axis of the ball joints (a somewhat unique condition)...this offset provides an effect similar to what most vehicles obtain stictly thru caster, and may ALLOW the incorporation of less ''kingpin angle" (you have no king-pin, only ball joints).... there are functions of maintaining vehicle control involved here, as well as steering "feel"--do not modify your car if you are not qualified to do so.

if you want to see ''crazy'', look at mid-60's chevelles with NEGATIVE caster

redrose

Have you ever doen it or is it just theory?[/QUOTE]
of course, this is all just theory, legal liabilities would be staggerring if i actually did it...do not modify your car.

theoretically,there is no hydraulic ram in the pinion housing portion of the rack, so whatever YOU decide to do there should have little effect..there are seals and bearings inside, so some lubrication should be retained, maybe just load in some p/s fluid... if there is no pump , you might just plug the four connections at the pinion housing..the two connections at the ram (in the rack), if plugged -would lock up the rack(i'm sure you've already got that figured)....note that the selector valve has a small axial movement relative to the pinion gear to activate the selector valve operation--a small amount of steering wheel ''play'' results and might be distracting without the ''sponginess'' of the power assist to cover it--it might be possible to disassemble the selector valve and remove the ''slop'' and discard the selector valve internal seals since they serve no purpose if no flow diverting is being done, making reassembly of the pinion shaft much easier.
again, only qualified personnel should attempt any of this...i can not say that i have any such qualification, and i do not recommend that you try this at home if you are not qualified.

redrose

delete

ralph

Good thing i'm not going to try this.......

thanks...........I think

hookedup

Ralph,

Phil and I both eliminated the PS pump on our C4s years ago, no problem with it other than it's tough a low speeds.

Dave