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You can easily have a 2500 lbs c4. 84 curb weight is3087 auto and 3060 manual. I think you can shave off 560 lbs easily:carpet,passenger seat,stereo(heavy magnets),storage bins,spare tire,carbon fibre hood,plastic targa,plastic rear window,glove box, take off that stupid bread loaf,heavy headlights,air pumpand hoses,smaller pulleys,change to lighter wheels and tires,cigarette lighter,ash tray,plastic side windows,winsheild washer fluid bottle,coolant reservoir,put in lighter racing gas tank,staight pipe exhaust, the list goes on and you would easily be 2500 or less.
Nelson, It sounds like you are thinking similar to what I have been thinking.
I would have to question many who are saying that a 2500lb C4 is easily doable. How many of them have actually done it? What is often overlooked is that there will be offsetting weight added back to the car for safety and rigidity. If you plan on racing the car, then it will be mandated depending on how fast the car is and the sanctioning organization (NHRA,IHRA,SCCA, etc) . Some of the add ons could include 6 point rollbar or full cage, halon system, parachute, wheelbars just to mention a few.
I also question whether a carbon fiber hood is lighter than a stock hood. Stronger...yes, but lighter...hmmm. I know someone with a CF hood. I will ask them.
I can assure you that a CF hood is lighter than the standard and lightweight versions of the C4 fiberglass hoods. Harry Glass, VFN and even Toledo Pro have all confirmed this with me. Toledo Pro is no longer making CF hoods but you can get a C4 hood to weigh anywhere from 20 lbs to 50 depending on what understructure you want, if you want it in race version, a lightweight street version or simply a stock replacement that is still substantially lighter than the factory
C4 hood.
You can buy a brand new World aluminum block for under $3500 and
get 427 cubes out of it. You will also weight 95 to 110 lbs lighter than
a factory case or iron aftermarket block so again more weight savings.
But you are still stuck with old world ignition, induction, engine
management and so on. For similar money, wouldn't it be better to
take the LSx plunge?
CHarrisVette and kpforce1 are documenting the steps - a
no-compromises mandate would save some of the headaches they
are coping with.
But you are still stuck with old world ignition, induction, engine
management and so on. For similar money, wouldn't it be better to
take the LSx plunge?
CHarrisVette and kpforce1 are documenting the steps - a
no-compromises mandate would save some of the headaches they
are coping with.
.
I certainly understand where you are coming but for what I am trying to do the added cost would not be justified since I have most of the higher end racing parts already such as jesel belt drive, shaft rockers, brodix heads, Pat Musi induction system with nitrous port system...I could switch but I would rather put the money into removing other weight on the car...which will make the car react faster and I will certainly destroy fewer parts with a lighter car.
Many people have asked me why I am on a mission to cut so much weight from my 84 and the answer is very simple...you can go faster and be substantially easier on parts if your car is light. When is the last time you saw a dragster break something? It is very rare and one of the biggest reasons is the initial hit on the car even with an 8 inch 5500 to 6500 torque converter and trans brake behind a 800 horsepower engine is mild compared to the same setup put in one of my 2800 to 3000 lbs cars. Put the same setup in one of my cars and that same drivetrain will start breaking stuff much faster in my car than in a super lightweight dragster.
I have a couple of fast cars and as I was beginning to build bigger horsepower (700 to 1,000 horsepower) I would start finding or uncovering weak links in the vehicles and it seemed like every weekend I was breaking something. Once I lightened the vehicle up it lessoned the strain on the drivetrain and my car hasn't been trailered to or from the track since...it runs deep 9's and 60 foots in the 1.20's on hoosier street tires all day long and I have had zero breakage since I cut the weight. For me lighter a lighter weight car will be better than building even bigger power.
Not to mention the wealth of experience you've accumulated
with building and tuning that equipment. Switching entails
not only walking away from money in hardware, but also time,
schooling, even tools.
Allow me to be a disturber for a few moments.
At the level you are at now, consider how much
money/time/effort it would take to cut another 150-200 lbs
off the non-engine components. I believe you are into
the realm of diminishing returns.
Now, suppose you were to sell off the current hardware at say
$0.30-0.40 on the dollar, take the plunge into the LSx pool and
set initial expectations at 600-800 HP instead of 700-1000.
At the end of the day, where would the chips lay?
With newer engine technology stressed to a lower level in
a lighter car, would this lead to equal/better performance,
better durability and more room for future development?
While switching platforms might not be feasible today, if
it seems like something the future might hold, then it
might influence you to rebalance short and long term
objectives.
I do not play at the level you have attained and really
have no idea about the full impact of such a suggestion.
I just put it out on the table for thought.
It is not a problem and your questions were certainly valid. What I didn't mention is that at some point most of my engines find there way into another car I own so the aluminum engine I am wanting to do in my Vette could easily go into my S-10 at a later time and who knows maybe an all aluminum 632 could find it's way into my Vette...with every day comes new ideas. I have been involved in probably 30 weight reduction threads and there is always something new that comes out of one of them that I add to my list. At this time I have roughly 30 pages full of tips and tricks to reduce weight, relocate weight, the weight of certain parts that I have removed from the car along with the weight of some specific replacement parts. This will be an ongoing process for me and hopefully I can continue to share my research with others as others have done for me.
As for the argument of diminished returns on weight, there is some argument to that point. However, even diminished returns are still returns. If your goal is to go as fast as possible with what you alread have (and Sam has a pile of killer parts), what's left is weight and efficiency.
With regards to how light a C4 can actually go . . . 2500lb, 2700lb, whatever, the conversation of how to get the weight down is really what this is about. Perhaps there are no 2500lb C4s because its not possible, or only because nobody has truly made it a goal and spent the time, effort, and money to ge there. Either way, all the weight loss threads add up to a slew of fantastic dialog and ideas on how to shed weight on these C4s.
New data on old thread. 1987 4+3 car less all interior, exhaudt, and ac, on ccw wheels weighed 2690 (with all glass). I'll let you know what it weighs with the ls7 (-110 or so), tremec (-50 or so), hood (-60 or so) and with seats and custom interior back in (+40 or so), brakes (+30), and cage (+60 or so) back in and done. Should be 2600 and thats with all glass and a cage.
I may do a rear hatch, some bumper work, some door lightening, etc., and hope to ultimately get it down to 2500 in street legal, drive to the track or show form.
I know of only one C4 that is down around 2200lbs. Completely gutted. Too much items to list; Beerman is his forum name.
I went on a weight reduction program in winter 2014. Got it down to 3000 with 5gals fuel. I did have to maintain interior for class, so there is a little more to be able to take out. However to get to 2500lbs there will be some serious fab and reworking.
The roadkill "Vette Kart" was around 2100 lbs and it was nothing but the frame. "m not sure many can even come close to that without shedding the body like they did.
My '84 which has been completely gutted, roof removed, B-pillars gone, hood hacked all up, all the crash protection filler stuff removed, front end shortened, auto swapped for a manual, LT1, and a cage, weighs a smidge below 2800lbs.
My '84 which has been completely gutted, roof removed, B-pillars gone, hood hacked all up, all the crash protection filler stuff removed, front end shortened, auto swapped for a manual, LT1, and a cage, weighs a smidge below 2800lbs.
2500 lbs is pushing it.
cool - still i see 25 pounds just in the rear wheels, and probably 100 lbs of cage. then the LT1 is a good 100, and if you aren't running a hell of a light flywheel that could be up to 45 as well. The ZF is almost 50 heavier than a tko, and there you have it. Depending on your answers to those details, that could be 230 lbs right there, down from 2800
and if that's a stock hood that could be 60 as well.
It would be VERY difficult and quite costly. My 1993 is as stripped as you can go "for free" and currently weighs in at about 2950. Key items removed:
interior (everything - carpet, sound mat, airbags, wheel replaced with race version, dash, IP, all electronics except engine computer and ABS computer, all wiring except engine harness, smaller battery, etc). In the engine bay everything is gone except the motor (heater core, ducting, all emissions, AC, headlights, wiring, etc.) I added a thin-guage aluminum IP skin and
autometer guages (Oil Press, tach, Oil and water temp). I have a four point hoop but not full cage.
The only thing left to do for me is replace body panels with lightweight. The hood and glass would be the biggest improvements. However, even if I did lightweight panels and lexan windows I doubt I could get 500 more pounds of savings. My estimation - 2700lbs is not far off with some cash, 2600 is possible with cash and creativity, and 2500 is really unlikely - but possible. You'd have to do the things that only a high dollar team could do like rifle drilling fasteners, lightweight wheels, aluminum block, etc. Possible but a little ridiculous. High dollar teams aren't racing C4's anymore.
i would love to come up with a c4-r race car that would go head to head and defeat c6r and c7r race team's - at a fraction of the cost
06-13-2006, 12:31 AM
I have been involved in probably 30 weight reduction threads and there is always something new that comes out of one of them that I add to my list. At this time I have roughly 30 pages full of tips and tricks to reduce weight, relocate weight, the weight of certain parts that I have removed from the car along with the weight of some specific replacement parts. This will be an ongoing process for me and hopefully I can continue to share my research with others as others have done for me. 
