patsfan

As the title Say's i replaced my spark plug wires about a month ago . I did the wires , cap and rotor about the same time . The motor has had a skip and would kinda sputter a bit every since. I posted a message about it here and got some great replies . One of the messages was to go out @ night and make sure the wires weren't sparking @ all . So I went out about a month ago and opened up the hood and started the car to look for sparks. I followed all of the wire close from the plug to the cap and didn't see any sparks . So that wasn't the issue correct ? Well myself being the rookie I am I never unplugged the lights for the engine under the hood so even if there was a million sparks i would have never seen them . It's been running about the same since I replaced all that stuff ( by the way I replaced the rotor and Cap a 2nd time just to make sure I didn't mess it up the first time ) . So 2-nite I'm cleaning under the hood and it starts getting dark and I notice those lights and think to myself I wonder if there was sparks and I just couldn't see them because of the lights . So I track down the plug ( 2 of them )for those under the hood lights and I get them turned off. I wait till it gets nice and dark ( 10:15 neighbors love me ) and go open up the hood . What I saw reminded me of a toss up between Christmas and the 4th of July . There we're so many sparks on each side it was just crazy . I'm so happy I think I found whats causing my spittering and sputtering problems . There are so many sparks I don't even know we're to begin chasing them down . Here's the wires I got

http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?p...dept%5Fid=1784

I did some reading here on the forum when I bought them and it seemed like allot of members liked them and they seemed like a descent price . When I installed them it was my first time putting wires in a car . Could it be the way I routed them or do U think the wire's could be bad out of the box ? I took some pic's of my routing job and here they are


There were some sparks here ( driver's side by the way )


Along the drivers side


around the back corner of valve ( drivers side )


Wires behind Valve to cap ( drivers side and bright sparks here )


sparks here ( passenger side )


Sparking so much it was like a energy ball under that pipe that's over the valve


A couple of sparks here and 1 or 2 that seemed like they we're sparking off from the plenum cover near the spark plug wire boot and some sparks down lower ( passenger side)


So whats the verdict how do you guys recommend I solve this problem . Its hard to pinpoint exactly we're the wires are sparking do to the darkness even though I shine a flashlight on the area instantly after the
spark .


Thanks again for all the help and I don't mean to be a nuisance but I'm learning with this car . As I'm sure you have noticed I can use all the help I can get .


PatsFan

jfb

Well congratulations for the good condition of your looms, these keep the plug wires from touching metal. All plug wires have microscopic holes in the insulation and are a potential for sparking through to ground if it is near,(plug wire touching metal) causing missing and rough idle etc. One thing that makes plug wire sparking worse is too large a plug gap. I believe the gap is supposed to be .035, check yours. I am inclined to blame the plug wires even though they look new. There's no arguing with the fireworks display under your hood. If you didn't have this problem with the wires your replaced, and you still have them, install an old one on a cylinder that is now sparking and see if it stops. If it does, then you have plug wires with inadequite insulation. Another thing that cause sparking is an open circuit conductor in the plug wire. Pull each plug wire one at a time and measure the resistance from end to end , it should measure close to 5000 ohms per foot. Also wiggle each end to see if the ohmeter stays steady. If not, a disconnected plug will also cause sparking somewhere along the plug wire.

patsfan

So if the plug wire is touching any metal from point a to b then it will ground ? There are allot of places that the wire are touching metal even with the looms ( which I replaced when i did the wires and might have missed one or two ) . The wires are touching or very close to the valve covers, A.I.R pipes off the manifolds and the little metal that holds the plugs in place .kinda like in this picture ( by the way it looked like on big glow here )

So if I understand the wire can not be touching any of the metal and if it does it will jump to it ? I don't have the original wires still i have a awful habit of throwing stuff away. Is a wire still good after it has grounded on to something or does it have to be replaced ?

Thanks again , PatsFan

patsfan

I also forgot to mention that after the motor warmed up and I was trying to figure out we're they we're sparking exactly ( I couldn't tell by the way )the wires were getting really hot so hot I couldn't tough them with out getting my fingers burned . Is this normal for them to get that hot ? I really noticed it in this area were it follows the valve





Thanks again , PatsFan

AORoads

I don't know how hot is really hot, but it is in the engine and everything especially close to the headers gets really hot. So, I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

To my knowledge, to the extent that it's possible, yes, try to keep wires away from touching metal. That isn't always possible and that's one reason why these are supposedly thick, silicone wires. I don't disagree that all wires are slightly porous but these should be (stress: should be) superior-construction wires.

One thing I don't see in the ad from Eck is the actual wire description itself. It says blah about outside, dual spiral but of what? If it's carbon core, you're not much better off than stock stuff.

Also, I'm going to assume you know how to put on wires at both ends and how to take them off correctly. Namely, you never just pull on the wire or for that matter the plug cap (at either end). You do grab only the capped ends (boots) and wiggle and twist them very, very gently until they release slightly and then pull them straight back, up and out. Or as straight as you can. One of the reasons for putting on dielectric is to keep them from "sticking" rubber boot to ceramic, and/or metal clip to distributor socket. Otherwise, you run the risk of literally pulling away the wire from its clip at either end.

If you ask me, if you're seeing a fireworks display, the test and swap out of good wires is a good idea as is plug gap (altho I'd think that wouldn't/shouldn't affect sparking through the wires). And the routing of the wires is a good idea, too--probably the first thing you should try and do. However, with that much sparking, it just seems to me you have a defective set of wires.

After you've moved the wires as far away from metal as you can and still be properly routed, rather than start and stop the car 8 or more times, I'd put some easily removable tape on the wires farthest from the plugs (closest to you distance-wise and as far from heat so they don't melt or burn onto the wires), wait til it's dark, start it, look for the light shower, mark the ones on the tape with a pen and flashlight that are sparking and replace them with your originals and see how it looks again in darkness. Also of course see how the engine is running then.

Other more knowledgeable types may chime in, but that's my take on it.

Aardwolf

Just a small add, the wires on the passenger side by the EGR have plastic wire protectors on stock. I reused the ones from my stock wires. This may help with metal contact.

MikeC4

If you have excessive gap, you will have greater energy potential built up in the wires. This energy(30-40KV), will want to go somewhere, and if it has trouble jumping a large gaped plug, it will find the next path of least resistance, which may well be microscopic holes in the insulation......

patsfan

now that i think of it my wires ( originals )Did have that on them and I forgot . I remember trying to get it off the old ones to put it on the new ones and it just all breaking apart . I would like to get some of that stuff when I reroute the wires this afternoon does any-one know what its called ?

Thanks Patsfan

patsfan

Im going to reroute the wires today . If theres still a isue I'll take out the plugs and check there gap . i just had the plugs out 2 weeks ago to exaine them and never checked the gap .

Thanks again , PatsFan

patsfan

Thanks for the great Ideas and I'll go through the bulk of them through out the next day or so


PatsFan

rick lambert

My plastics crumbled the first time I replaced the wires, I got new ones at the dealers.BTW, I have to say I've had good luck with Belden plug wires from NAPPA, thing they were 35 maybe 45 for the set.Main thing is do your best to keep them away from anything metal.

patsfan

I spent a few hours this afternoon rerouting all of the wires. I got some new wire holders ( looms) to make sure I had them we're they all we're from the factory . I also bought some of that stuff that wraps around the wires in issue spots ( black tube with a slice down the middle to put the wires in ). I started the car up after and didn't really notice much of a difference ( maybe a little ) . I just went out now because it got dark to see if I noticed any sparks and there we're still allot of them . I noticed it on about every plug boot . It was like the whole boot that hooks on the plug was glowing in little circles . I also noticed it in other area's that we're close to metal ( not touching but very close to metal ). All of the black tubing I put on was melting on the passenger side towards the rear ( were the wires go under the egr tube ) . I hope if indeed the wires were not the problem that the melted plastic doesn't ruin them . I guess I'm going to have to ohm all of the wires tomorrow and take the plugs out to see how the gap is on them .
On a side note with letting my car idle for so long in the drive way while I was checking out the light show I noticed that my Secondary fan doesn't come on. The motor was getting very worm ( close to the worry lines on the temp gage ) . Only the main fan would run . It looks like I have 3 projects to take car of now ( a suspension issue on another thread is # 3). @ least I can't say that the car doesn't keep me busy lol .

Thanks and if any one has anything more to add I'll welcome it with open arms ,

PatsFan

ED HEISER

I just went out and looked at mine in the dark, and it's pitch black, no sparks at all I had quite a time replacing mine also, the way they were routed you couldn't take off just one at a time. I changed the routing by trial and error to avoid metal contact, using the split covering where it wouldn't melt, and even resorted to splitting some heater hose for the air injector pipe area. I bought extra looms and used them all. I used the premium NAPA Auto Parts wires, about $55 if I remember. Seemed like a lot, but they have a lifetime guarantee.
As to your problem, I cannot imagine that it is anything other than bad wires. I've bought plenty of new aftermarket parts that were junk, so I wouldn't be shocked. I don't mean to insult you, but could two wires be switched? I did it, and it ran pretty good. But I seem to make stupid mistakes fairly often considering that I am suppose to be smart.

jfb

You might be seeing corona at the plug boots and this is normal. Also some plugs will have the insulator give a little pulse of light when the plug fires, this is also normal. What shouldn't be happening is a definite crooked bright miniature lightning bolt that you can hear snap. Corona is a blue glow around wires that carry high voltage but do not extend to any nearby grounded metal and corona doesn't go, "snap".
The main fan comes on at 228 F and the auxialliary fan comes on at 238 F.

patsfan

Yeah its so tight in there and there's so much metal and heat its hard to rout them and to move one it seems like U gotta move 3 . I'm not insulted even a little bit and appreciate the feed back . About 3 weeks ago I checked to make sure I didn't swap a wire or 3 . I went through each and verified each wire was on the proper plug and cap twice once alone and the 2nd time with my father in-law just to make sure I had a extra set of eyes to make sure I didn't mess it up . I'm going to Ohm them tomorrow and take off all of the melted split covering . If they don't ohm right I'll got to the local parts store and get there premium wiring ( with the warranty ) $55 doesn't sound bad considering I spent $67.99 for these + shipping . The only issue I have with the local Part stores is they never have anything in stock for my car but what should I expect with a 16 year old beast . They can always get stuff with in a day or so but I have this bad habit of being inpatient .

Thanks for the reply ,

PatsFan

patsfan

So maybe this light @ the plugs is ok then . I don't here a snap when it sparks and its almost a continuous light . Although I don't here a snap when I'm getting spark's to other areas of the wires either ( valve cover metal that holds the wire holders and etc. ) I did mist the wires 2-nite and noticed some sparks through out . Does that mean the wire is bad ?

Thanks again for your replies they have been very helpful ,

patsfan

OK so I took the # 2 plug wire off the car and brought it inside to try to ohm ( it was raining out ) . I got inside and measured the wire and it was 3' 4" from boot end to boot end and 3" from inside boot to inside boot ( only wire no boots ) . I hooked up the digital voltmeter and set it to ohms ( as I do when i check my injectors ) and put the red on one end of the plug wire and the black on the other ( had to push it way in for it to connect ) . The meter read 0.830 ( and would move from 0.830 to 0.833 ) but the 0.830 was the most consistent . The only time I had to use a ohm meter is with my injectors so I'm not real fluent in reading them. Something seems off with the reading though if the wire is about 3" long and its suppose to have 5000 resistance for every foot then we're doe's 0.830 come into play ? what would a 15 ,000 reading look like on the meter ?

Thanks , PatsFan

byedan

check you meter for a m or k next to the ohm

patsfan

theres a k and a upside down horseshoe looking thing next to the 0.830 #

Thanks , PatsFan

MikeC4

did you liberally coat the inside of your plug boots with dielectric grease?
did you get a chance to check your plug gaps?