Brodix Track 1 (1X) vs. AFR 195 Comp port
10-28-2006, 10:23 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Brodix Track 1 (1X) vs. AFR 195 Comp port
Im wanting to upgrade my current heads and have been talking to AFR about the new 195cc comp port elimiantor heads. They claim close to 300 cfm flow out of a 195cc port. However, it will be months before this head is ready and I could wait if I knew that was true.
The Broidix Track 1 CNC ported heads seem like a great choice from what I read. I 'd like others opinions who have used this head. Here are some questions:
1. Has anyone used these with TPIS headers? My current AFR heads with L98 plug angles seem wrong because the #7 plug touched the header pipe. I had to pound the pipe to barely get it to fit.
2. Is the 1X head any better and are there other issues other than having to use a Jesel shaft rocker system.
3. Will the Jesel shaft system fit under a standard valve cover?
4. Does anyone have independant flow data for these heads?
Most likely I would not opt for the 1X version.
Thanks
The Broidix Track 1 CNC ported heads seem like a great choice from what I read. I 'd like others opinions who have used this head. Here are some questions:
1. Has anyone used these with TPIS headers? My current AFR heads with L98 plug angles seem wrong because the #7 plug touched the header pipe. I had to pound the pipe to barely get it to fit.
2. Is the 1X head any better and are there other issues other than having to use a Jesel shaft rocker system.
3. Will the Jesel shaft system fit under a standard valve cover?
4. Does anyone have independant flow data for these heads?
Most likely I would not opt for the 1X version.
Thanks
10-28-2006, 10:49 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
The new AFR heads sound great and i hope their new facility & equipment can turn out quality product more quickly than before. However if the recent past is any idicator, You wont see those heads until March and it's hit or miss on the quality. 300 cfm out of a 195 head is pretty impresive tho and AFR heads have always made good power.
I currently have a set of Track 1s. They took 2 weeks to build to my specs including the week between christmas and new years. And their quality and valve train geometry is very good. My cars performance is a little less than what i expected, but i don't know if i can attribute that to the heads. The track 1x has offset valve placement (60/40) and you'll need to see what challenges that represents. And i dont know for sure, but i'd assume shaft rockers will need a tall valve cover.
Between Corky and Jesse and myself, i've seen independent flow data on both AFR and Brodix heads. Both flow reasonably close to the advertised numbers......if anything AFR out flows their numbers slightly.
Good luck on your choice......if you don't have a deadline, it might be interesting to see how the new AFRs perform.
I currently have a set of Track 1s. They took 2 weeks to build to my specs including the week between christmas and new years. And their quality and valve train geometry is very good. My cars performance is a little less than what i expected, but i don't know if i can attribute that to the heads. The track 1x has offset valve placement (60/40) and you'll need to see what challenges that represents. And i dont know for sure, but i'd assume shaft rockers will need a tall valve cover.
Between Corky and Jesse and myself, i've seen independent flow data on both AFR and Brodix heads. Both flow reasonably close to the advertised numbers......if anything AFR out flows their numbers slightly.
Good luck on your choice......if you don't have a deadline, it might be interesting to see how the new AFRs perform.
10-28-2006, 11:31 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by 89vette
Im wanting to upgrade my current heads and have been talking to AFR about the new 195cc comp port elimiantor heads. They claim close to 300 cfm flow out of a 195cc port. However, it will be months before this head is ready and I could wait if I knew that was true.
The Broidix Track 1 CNC ported heads seem like a great choice from what I read. I 'd like others opinions who have used this head. Here are some questions:
1. Has anyone used these with TPIS headers? My current AFR heads with L98 plug angles seem wrong because the #7 plug touched the header pipe. I had to pound the pipe to barely get it to fit.
2. Is the 1X head any better and are there other issues other than having to use a Jesel shaft rocker system.
3. Will the Jesel shaft system fit under a standard valve cover?
4. Does anyone have independant flow data for these heads?
Most likely I would not opt for the 1X version.
Thanks
The Broidix Track 1 CNC ported heads seem like a great choice from what I read. I 'd like others opinions who have used this head. Here are some questions:
1. Has anyone used these with TPIS headers? My current AFR heads with L98 plug angles seem wrong because the #7 plug touched the header pipe. I had to pound the pipe to barely get it to fit.
2. Is the 1X head any better and are there other issues other than having to use a Jesel shaft rocker system.
3. Will the Jesel shaft system fit under a standard valve cover?
4. Does anyone have independant flow data for these heads?
Most likely I would not opt for the 1X version.
Thanks
10-28-2006, 11:47 AM
#4
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St. Jude Donor '05
Id hold out for the Comp Eliminators, nice head.
You will more than likely need a tall valve cover for the Jesels.
You will more than likely need a tall valve cover for the Jesels.
10-28-2006, 11:47 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
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Another alternative is Brodix 180cc or 200cc Racerite (cnc ported) and support upto .570 lift, yep u need some tall vc's or modify the original's i think u need to remove drift tabs. I have dart pro Al 200cc heads with comp cam 1.6 RR's i could not fit in stock VC's so i bought VC's from Lpe fit perfect. I do have hooker LT headers, the only problem is with #8 plug which is too tight but i still be able to change plugs with just little patience. If it is 400 chp car i would consider Brodix 180cc Racerite heads and can be have in just 2 weeks instead of months for AFR. Check brodix.com. sami
10-28-2006, 11:59 AM
#6
Safety Car
There is alot more to look at than just the flow numbers. You are considering 2 cyl heads that reperesent 2 complete different spectrums of 23 degree cyl heads. You can make either run but it takes 2 very different engines to do so.
One one hand you have the medium size port AFR 195. This head has high port velocity and exellant flow over the entire lift range. It also has a big enough port to sustain a fairly big motor (400inches) to 7000 rpm (depending on cam) without giving up anything on smaller engines. On the other hand you have the big 221cc port Brodix. Also the Brodix has 60/40 valve spacing and 2.10 intake valves, something to consider since they require different pistons and valve train parts. Personally I wouldn't put the Brodix on anything smaller than a 400 inch engine. I have worked on a bunch of Track 1's and they all had the same problems. Horrid low lift flow numbers and low port velocity. The customers engines were lazy and flat did not give the performance they expected. I ended up epoxying up the intake floor and cutting the push rod slots out of every set I ever touched before they would run. I did however find an engine combo that these heads loved. (Think big bore, long stroke, short stroke to rod ratio, high compression, with a long LSA camshaft and lots of NO2.) I'm not knocking Brodix's heads they make some great ones that I have used forever on my engines (like the -8/-10, 10X and -12) but the Track 1 has been a lame duck on most every thing that has ever come in my shop with them on it. I have never put them on one of "my" engines. I have had customers and former customers buy them and try them on my engines but the results were like I said not what they expected. I have had people bring them to me to fix and I was able to pick them up to where they wanted to be, but nothing from my shop with my name on it will ever have a set of Track 1's on it. Some people are running well with them but I think the would improve alot by epoxying them up like I stated above (but that is a lot of $$$ work) or going to a different cyl head.
Depending on what size engine, stroke, rod length, cam specs, you have either head may or may not work for you well. And yes there are lots of alternative heads between these two out there to choose from.
Will
One one hand you have the medium size port AFR 195. This head has high port velocity and exellant flow over the entire lift range. It also has a big enough port to sustain a fairly big motor (400inches) to 7000 rpm (depending on cam) without giving up anything on smaller engines. On the other hand you have the big 221cc port Brodix. Also the Brodix has 60/40 valve spacing and 2.10 intake valves, something to consider since they require different pistons and valve train parts. Personally I wouldn't put the Brodix on anything smaller than a 400 inch engine. I have worked on a bunch of Track 1's and they all had the same problems. Horrid low lift flow numbers and low port velocity. The customers engines were lazy and flat did not give the performance they expected. I ended up epoxying up the intake floor and cutting the push rod slots out of every set I ever touched before they would run. I did however find an engine combo that these heads loved. (Think big bore, long stroke, short stroke to rod ratio, high compression, with a long LSA camshaft and lots of NO2.) I'm not knocking Brodix's heads they make some great ones that I have used forever on my engines (like the -8/-10, 10X and -12) but the Track 1 has been a lame duck on most every thing that has ever come in my shop with them on it. I have never put them on one of "my" engines. I have had customers and former customers buy them and try them on my engines but the results were like I said not what they expected. I have had people bring them to me to fix and I was able to pick them up to where they wanted to be, but nothing from my shop with my name on it will ever have a set of Track 1's on it. Some people are running well with them but I think the would improve alot by epoxying them up like I stated above (but that is a lot of $$$ work) or going to a different cyl head.
Depending on what size engine, stroke, rod length, cam specs, you have either head may or may not work for you well. And yes there are lots of alternative heads between these two out there to choose from.
Will
Last edited by rklessdriver; 10-28-2006 at 12:03 PM.
10-28-2006, 12:08 PM
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St. Jude Donor '05
www.airflowresearch.com
How much cam are you planning on running? Solid, Hydraulic, or?
Interesting..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php
How much cam are you planning on running? Solid, Hydraulic, or?
Interesting..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php
Last edited by cv67; 10-28-2006 at 12:12 PM.
10-28-2006, 12:31 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
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Why don't you send your 195's out to be ported. Ask Cork about it. My 195's flow phenominally and we took them to Kaufman racing to verify their flow.
10-28-2006, 07:13 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
89vette,
Just curious, why did you pick the 1X over the M2 Track1s? The M2 215 flows almost ~292cfm@.500, 296 cfm @.550 & 300cfm @.600 along with good low lift #s. M2 T1s don't need the Jesel, standard valve gear works fine. BTW, what combo are you putting these on(350-383-406-434?) and what application, street or dedicated drag?
Dave
Just curious, why did you pick the 1X over the M2 Track1s? The M2 215 flows almost ~292cfm@.500, 296 cfm @.550 & 300cfm @.600 along with good low lift #s. M2 T1s don't need the Jesel, standard valve gear works fine. BTW, what combo are you putting these on(350-383-406-434?) and what application, street or dedicated drag?
Dave
10-28-2006, 07:51 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Jim,
It's funny how you overlook the obvious! I guess I could just have my 195's ported.
Hookedup,
I didn't know about the M2 Track 1's. These heads will be going on a 396 with a ported Super Ram intake. The car is a 6 speed also. It will be used for street and no drag racing.
It's funny how you overlook the obvious! I guess I could just have my 195's ported.
Hookedup,
I didn't know about the M2 Track 1's. These heads will be going on a 396 with a ported Super Ram intake. The car is a 6 speed also. It will be used for street and no drag racing.
10-28-2006, 09:38 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Super ram base doesn't really fit the Track 1s. You can make it work, but it's tricky unless you have the base welded to add material. The Track 1s are a true 1206 gasket match and the super ram is more like a 1205 when fully ported. If you already have 195s, you could have work done to them as Jim mentioned. His flow excellent and the runners aren't all that big. A nice match for the SR.
10-28-2006, 10:41 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by 85vet
Why don't you send your 195's out to be ported. Ask Cork about it. My 195's flow phenominally and we took them to Kaufman racing to verify their flow.
10-29-2006, 07:35 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by ralph
Super ram base doesn't really fit the Track 1s. You can make it work, but it's tricky unless you have the base welded to add material. The Track 1s are a true 1206 gasket match and the super ram is more like a 1205 when fully ported. If you already have 195s, you could have work done to them as Jim mentioned. His flow excellent and the runners aren't all that big. A nice match for the SR.
10-29-2006, 11:53 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
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IF YOU ARE KEEPING THE SUPER RAM AND ARE SAYING MORE STREET THAN STRIP I WOULD EITHER KEEP THE 195 OR GET THE ELLIMANATOR 195S
NOW MY QUESTION ON THE NEW 195S ARE JUST BECAUSE THEY FLOW MORE AIR DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL MAKE MORE POWER THEY ARE AN UNTESTED HEAD RIGHT NOW SO DO YOU WANT TO BE ONE OF THE FIRST TO TRY THEM OUT GOOD OR BAD?
NOW MY QUESTION ON THE NEW 195S ARE JUST BECAUSE THEY FLOW MORE AIR DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL MAKE MORE POWER THEY ARE AN UNTESTED HEAD RIGHT NOW SO DO YOU WANT TO BE ONE OF THE FIRST TO TRY THEM OUT GOOD OR BAD?
10-29-2006, 08:02 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Cork,
I think at this point my best option will be to port my current 195's. Your right about spending a ton of money on a new head that may or may not meet my expectations. Also, I do not get a good feeling that the new 195's will be ready any time soon.
I think at this point my best option will be to port my current 195's. Your right about spending a ton of money on a new head that may or may not meet my expectations. Also, I do not get a good feeling that the new 195's will be ready any time soon.
