Damien89

Iv'e read in a book that you have to retard the timing 4degrees for every 100hp shot. Is this true or false. I know that you have to retard the timing when using N20 but by how much?
If yes is this applicable to all engines?

Thanks

BKVIEW4U

i thought it was 4 for the first 100 and 2 for every 100 after that

neat

It's going to be different on every engine. 2 degree's for every 50 HP is a safe number, that's why you see if quoted a lot.

I don't pull any for my 100 shot, but I pull 4 degree's for 150.

What are you considering using N20 on?

rklessdriver

It depends on the type of NO2 kit also. My old Top Gun plate system didn't require any timing retard until you hit the 300 pills. But I have had other brands over the years that required timing to be pulled reguardless of the pills.

Best advice with nitrous is to folow the manafacture of YOUR NO2 systems recommendations, until you have a lot of experience reading plugs and tuning engines under your belt. Leave those local self proclaimed nitrous gurus to their own devices and to blow up their own sh**.
Will

Damien89

No, i am not going to use N20 but i had a curiosity and had to ask to know if its true.
Thanks to all of you for all your answers.

GrtWht91

im putting a Holley NOS wet tpi plate kit on mine this weekend, Holley suggests 2 degree retard per 50 hp....

REDC4CORVETTE

With a crank firing timing unit 1 1/2 degrees for every 50 shot.
That is if you are runing the proper plugs.

neat

There's a lot of BS out there about nitrous. Trying to be correctly informed is hard, especially with all the BS floating around on the web. There's a couple things about nitrous on my website that are good for beginners.

d48mclain

Have to agree and also amoung the ill informed, but I know enough to follow the instructions that come with the nitrous kit and they all say to retard the timing. Sounds like how much is the real issue.

byedan

how would you pull timing out on a lt1 engine? and what heat range plugs should i run for a 50 shot

neat

Some guys do it by using a resistor in the inlet air temperature sensor, other's run a specific chip/tune for nitrous.

For a 50 shot you don't need to run cooler plugs or pull timing on an LT1.

The colder plug thing is being mis-represented here, and most places on the net. When you run nitrous, hot spots in the combustion chamber are bad, they can lead to detonation or worse yet, pre-ignition. The most likely candidate to develop a hot spot is the spark plug electrode. The electrode must pass heat all the from it's very tip, into the base of the plug, and then into the head to be dissipated by the cooling system. Because the heat must travel such a long ways, the tip of the electrode gets hot. The common 'work around' style solution is to run a cooler plug. Shortening the electrode to the near side of the puck is all that is necessary in most applications. IMO, shortening the electrode is the 'correct' solution, but that's just me.

That's an example of one of the millions of bull **** lines spewed by Internet nitrous users. Most people on the net are just regurgitating what they read elsewhere on the net.

The nonsense above about running a 300 HP shot with no timing retard. That's ludicrous. Either the engine was specifically built for nitrous, the base timing was extremely low, or the nitrous shot was not making anywhere near 300 RWHP. It's also nonsense that different nitrous systems will require a different amount of timing retard. The only reason the nitrous systems would call for different amounts of timing retard is because they are rated differently for their respective HP levels. NX for example, rates their systems at the wheels. For a 100 HP shot, they expect you to realize an additional 100 HP at the wheels. NOS rates their systems at the flywheel. For a 100 HP shot from NOS, you should expect approximately 60 RWHP. The NX kit will call for more timing retard because it is flowing more nitrous, not because it is a different brand kit.

All the kit's use the same nozzle design. There should be no difference in the required timing retard between NOS, NX, cold fusion, Holley, or anyone else. There may be discrepancies in the directions based on what each manufacturer feels is a safe amount of timing retard, but the actual requirements are no different. If NOS feels that 2 degree's per 50 HP is the safest way to go, that's what they'll put in their instructions. If NX feels that only 1.5 degree's is necessary per 50 HP, that's what they will print. In either event, the actual amount of timing retard necessary is going to vary from engine to engine. The timing requirements might also change based on the style of the kit, direct port, single nozzle, dry, wet, etc... But I would like to reiterate that the timing retard necessary is directly determined by the amount of nitrous entering the engine and engine characteristics, the brand of the kit makes no difference.

I am rambling, but 1-2 degree's for every 50 HP is a good, safe number.

REDC4CORVETTE

To answer your question B8EFS NGK is what I use,gaped to .35 ths.
I have the 6al msd and the msd retard dial unit,but the msd retard box will work with the pins,for 2 degree ,3 degree and so on.
I would get the plug for the 6al unit instead of cutting up the wiring harness at the coil.
If you have a 94 or newer vett you don't have to program your computer,your computer is a flash not a chip computer.
I don't know if they even make a 50 shot for an LT1,most I have seen start at 75 shot.

d48mclain

My feeling is you don't have to do a damn thing for just a 50 hp shot.

byedan

so i can install a retard box from msd and this will work, but to do this do i need to run a msd 6a box

neat

You have to run the ignition box if you want to retard timing that way. There is no seperate component that will retard the timing without the box as well.

The best one out there (reasonably priced anyway) for nitrous is the Mallory 685. You should be able to find it for about $230 online somewhere.

bigwave71

i have the msd6al plus box. it has the timing retard box built into it. very easy to hook up with the wiring harness for the coil. http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_18_6520.htm

rickneworleansla

An MSD box is one option for retarding the timing. Another option would be to send off for a custom tune. A third alternative would be to get an MSD opti that you can adjust the timing on.

I chose to go with the custom tune I bought from PCMFORLESS. You tell them your mods and they will email you the bin file to upload to the PCM. (No need to send in PCM) I use my laptop and a data cable I purchased from Moates. I can switch between tunes, N2O or NA, in 3 minutes. You also get the benefit of having other performance enhancements added to each tune. This setup will also allow for datalogging with the proper software. It is well worth the investment, especially when troubleshooting. It has saved me a lot of $$$ in mechanic fees. Check out TunerCat and Datamaster TTS software. They have trial versions on their websites.


http://www.pcmforless.com/

http://www.moates.net/

http://www.tunercat.com/

http://www.ttspowersystems.com/DataMaster.html

bigwave71

with the 6al plus box you dont have to get anything tuned. all you have to do is put the box on on adjust the screws to the timing you want. when the 12 volts are activated to the nitrous solenoids the box automaticly retards the timing. you dont have to upload, download nothing. its fairly cheap for all it does.