ScaryFast

I'll tell you the same thing you've heard a million times...driver, driver, driver. Sure, you can have some fun with something like a Lightning or a Syclone on a track, but I promise you guys that no amount of cash will allow a "truck" to keep up with a Viper in the hands of a capable driver. Well - at least until the truck is converted into something non-streetable, but I don't consider that the same thing.

I used to think I was badass becuase I could pass 911's in my old Taurus SHO. Ten years later some of the same 911's can hang with my Corvette. Was my SHO super fast with the brakes and suspension I put on it? Hell no, I was just improving as a driver. The 911's were being driven nowhere near their capability. As a reference, I run Mid-Ohio 24 seconds a lap faster in the vette than in the SHO - and therefore so do those same 911's...

ScaryFast

That's a good question. While I do agree that noobs should run on street tires first, I don't consider you a noob. Hopefully I haven't given you too much credit

I instruct a lot of people, from beginners to advanced guys that just aren't ready to drive solo yet. In most cases, once someone has the basic skills down and 5 or 6 track days under their belt I suggest R tires.

As soon as I started improving I destroyed street tires several times on the track. That's pricey. Last year when the 'vette was down I took my street car to the track a couple of times, obviously on street tires. Chewed up two Michelin Pilot Sports and now I have a nice, soothing high speed vibration on the highway.

Maybe I'm too far removed at this point, but I don't think that street tires give more feedback, and I hear that comment a lot. The high performance street tires (Kumho MX, Mich Pilots, BFG g-force, etc) don't really make much noise on a track. They do, however, overheat and lose grip quickly if you're running fast. And frankly, the 'kooks I run now make a lot of noise. Listen to my videos...sometimes you can hear them howl over the engine.

I think the bottom line is that it's a confidence thing. It does seem like a big jump for a beginner, and yes, you will be faster which is bad if you're not ready. However - I find R tires, even used up (not corded, mind you) old Nittos to be much more forgiving than streets. It is a little frightening the first time you slide around a little, but if you've induced a roostertail on the street you should recognize when the back comes out and correct in time. To boil it down, IMO, streets give you a little more warning before they lose grip, but at that point you're done. R's do not give audible feedback (except the 'kooks, baby!), but if you slide a little you're still a long way from the limit - you have time to correct and ride out the slip.

I certainly won't recommend people to get in over their heads, this is a dangerous endeavor. But if you're going to do this a lot a second set of rims and R's is a must, from both a cost and performance factor.

ScaryFast

Oh, and it's a good point made above about camber. The newer R tires (Kumho and Hoosier R6) have more rounded edges to allow them to be run on "camber challenged" cars. You won't eat them up like the last generation.

That said, however, a better alignment will definately help you maximize their performance.

CentralCoaster

But shouldn't aggressive camber also help a street tire from being chewed up?

It tends to chew the edges off the tire, but overall, I don't see why you can't get some good life out of them if you rotate them. You could even flip them inside out halfway through. Although these tires are non-directional assymettric, so you can put them on all 4 corners but can't flip them on the wheel. Obvioulsy when I start overheating them it's time to move on.

ScaryFast

Absolutely it will. I was simply responding to the comment about the older Hoosiers cording in a day. Street tires are less susceptable to this as they're designed for very little negative camber.


Looks to me like you're already overheating them to some extent. When a street tire gets too hot the tread blocks squirm even more than usual reducing grip. The tread is there to shed water, nothing more. And lastly, the faster you get the less your tires will hold up.

Again, if you're not destroying them and you are comfortable, by all means stay on streets. When you start doing more track days is when you'll want to switch.

BrianCunningham

Looks like my street tires after an autox

See if you can pick up another set of rims for the track.

It winds up being cheaper in the long run.

DoT race rubber is actually pretty cheap compared to melting down decent street tires. And you will melt them down, they're just not meant for that kind of abuse. Then you wind up driving around on bald street tires. Not fun when you take an exit ramp and find lots of water on it Been there done that!

CentralCoaster

Oh I figured the dingleberries were just from the hot tires picking up rubber off the track on the cooldown lap. But they do appear to be on only certain parts of the treadblocks, maybe the other parts were cleaned off due to traction.

ScaryFast

It's both your tires and marbles from others. Based on the location I'd say more your own tires. R's tend to have strips of gunk all the way around the middle after a hot run (depending on inflation, of course). I'd guess you have quite a bit of tire residue on the car behind each tire, also.

Bill Hetzel

On the second tread from the bottom, can see where the rubber is coming off the tread, going into the groove. The stuff on the tread at the top is pickup.

Street tires with full tread will run hot when pushed. This is why they shave tires. The shaved tires won't overheat as fast. Of course, this is for guys that are racing and have a tire budgit. Track day guys can shave them on the track .

I flip tires side to side quite a bit because of camber wear. But these are usually used for practice and I have to remount them(directional).

I was with a student in a Syclone once. Pretty much of a pig in the corners.

comp