0ski_dwn_it

Thanks again for the questions.

Let's just get this out in the open and state it here. I can't openly say this setup is for street use for the obvious legal reasons. All documentation supplied with it, as with all aftermarket stuff will state for off-road use ONLY. How you use it once its in your car, is entirely up to you. Same goes for the tunes that I sell. They all state this as does 99% of the stuff you buy from SummitRacing, or any aftermarket supplier. Same goes for emmissions and other related items....most crumble them up and throw them away with the packaging, but I can't openly state its for the highway. We all understand how this stuff works and I don't want or care to have a legal discussion here about it since 99% of us are not legal gurus anyways. That is what I was advised to include, so I do.

Now depending on how you want the car to ride you have endless options for coil over springs that simple slip over and give you different spring rates. Again if you have special requests, then all you have to do is ask. To me it makes no difference; when I order them I simple replace what I normally get with what your request is. I am as stand setting them up with what I know works for the strip which is what most guys will want these setups for. But the ride on the street in mine is not bad at all.

It should also be mentioned that you have adjustability with the shocks as well. They have 12 dial settings that range from soft to very stiff. Again that coupled with the coil over spring rate you should be able to get the car to ride like a caddy.


One last thing is you can very easily slam the car down over the wheels with this setup if your choice is to lower your car. It has a TON of shock adjustment that allows for different ride heights. Its designed for at stock height, but it will go much lower too. Stock ride height allows for tires as large at 30" to with no problem. That is where I have mine.

BerniesVette

Ski down it,
I understand completely having used a lot of "performance" parts on my vehicles. I like the reliability and serviceability of the solid rear axle. The adjustability is nice as well.
Thanks for replying!
Bernie

0ski_dwn_it

Not a problem. You are exactly right with the reliability and serviceability. Even with changing gears it makes thing so much easier. No wrestling the entire IRS down out and spending 4 hours reinstalling it. Simply put the car up, pop the back cover, remove the 4 axle end retaining bolts and pull the axles. Remove the 4 bolts holding the bearing caps and out comes the differential.

Anyone that has wrestled with the c-clips that are on the IRS stub axles will greatly appreciate the simplicity. I had my fair share of times. Dad and I had a laugh last night when he revealed that he used to insist that I drive his chevelle on racedays, just so I would leave the vette at home because he did not want to spend the entire next week fixing it. Now we can both go with confidence and spend the next week not under the cars.

FOXX

Setup looks good! Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is most likely to break if one were to just leave the stock rear alone but put about 350hp to the ground? Not into racing my car. Just daily high speed cornering.

MR NICE

I would never lose sleep over that rear end in my car,that is what insurance is for.In fact I'd bet it is safer than stock,holds up to 10 second runs with out coming apart,can't say that about the stock dana.

88BlackZ-51

You dont need a solid rear. Ask the guys that road race.

0ski_dwn_it

In stock form you are good with the IRS. The advantage of this over the IRS even in stock form is easier gear changes, maintenance is virtually zero, ability to fine tune it for better handling, as mentioned its all-around stronger, etc.

Even my father's stock vette has developed the typical IRS clicking and clunking problems. Pretty sad since the thing only has 20k miles on it. There are just too many angles in the setup. Will it make the car move forward....yep....is the IRS a reliable setup....NOPE.

Should everyone go out and get this setup...probably not, does it definately make sense for many - you bet. Each person has to make up their mind what makes sense. The Dana stuff is getting tough to find and every day more people are breaking them. Even my father is thinking about one of these in his complete stock driven car. I think it would be awesome to see his car in bone stock form go to the track and pull the wheels off the ground 1ft and only run a high 13sec run. A stocker with this setup would be a KILLER bracket car.

88BlackZ-51

Are you saying that your unit will have better handling characteristics then the IRS? Is that because yours has coilovers? What about an IRS with coilovers?

0ski_dwn_it

I am not going to say that outright, but I do know that the IRS is nothing special in that everything is constantly changing angles on it, even your tires to the pavement.

I have done a LOT of tuning of the IRS to get my car when it had the IRS to 60' like it did (1.37sec) which I have yet to see another one do, not saying it hasn't been done, but that is CRANKin.

For a simple test or demonstation of what I am talking about, simply jack up the rear of your car, watch how the tires tip downward and end up on an angle. Now bring the plane of the floor up to the bottom of the tire......what you will see if your riding on the outside of your tire. Conversely if you take out super hard, you are then compressing the suspension. At that point you will have the exact opposite effect, and you will see that your now riding on the inside of your tire with the outside for all intense purposes off the ground.

I am no traction expert, but having 10.5" of a 10.5" tire on the ground has to better than having 4" of a 10.5" tire on the ground

Here are two video demonstrating the IRS vs the solid rear. Keep in mind the IRS video was after YEARS of refinement, and the solid rear video was the FIRST time EVER out at the track. The IRS was running low 1.4 60' times and BROKE the run after this one shown (outter spindle) and the solid rear went quicker that first day out with no tuning! Same motor size, worst air with the solid rear, awesome air with IRS.

IRS RUN: (watch how "sloppy" the launch is and the car kicks sideways a little - also keep in mind that is a highly refined 60' time)
http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...nt=1033ski.flv

Solid Axle Run: (literally the 2nd run EVER on the suspension!) watch how positive the controlled the car is, and it ran quicker in WAY worst air than prior).

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...rrent=Run1.flv

And a little tweak to the 4link bars resulted in this:

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ent=Good60.flv

And then to this which is a little too far:

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...t=1008run2.flv

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...t=330ftRun.flv

What you see though is a completely TUNABLE setup that you can accomplish anything you want with. That is far beyond anything you can do with the IRS. Trust me I have as much time as anyone on the IRS and put it through every possible combination and it just doesn't have the adjustment/reliability/efficiency the solid axle does. I firmly believe as some others pointed out that the solid rear could be made to perform for handling WAY better than the IRS could ever dream of being. As one pointed out "the highest forms of road racing, typically when you see a 'vette racing on TV it's a solid axle car (except in stock based classes, of course). If you saw the handful of 'vettes in the Rolex 24 at Daytona you saw a solid axle car. "

I will also add that my car has seen ZERO degradement of handling since putting in the Solid Rear, and in my opinion and that is all it is, the car handles better now than before. It certainly is no worse and you can go back and read my comments about how the IRS used to feel under heavy loads. Others have commented and experienced the same thing. First time down the track with the SR, I was shocked at how smooth and controlled the car felt.

Dr. Evil

Jesse, I've been following your progress over the years. I'm glad to see this come to fruition . My concern is the handling as previously mentioned. I autox ALOT and also go to the occasional track day. Once you put some seriously sticky tires on and start cornering it puts all kinds of weird stress on parts. Having the ability to dial in toe in/out with the irs is an advantage in autox and road course work but the neg camber is the biggest advantage especially with the hoosier tires but thats another thread. If it were able to come with some neg camber setup and hold up to the rigors of road course track use it would be VERY attractive.

red L98

For safety solid axle is the way to go, a friend of mine was playing around on the street few years ago and snapped a half shaft and lost control of the car, the car shot straight to the right and hit a curb. If you like to run your car hard and wanna feel safe doing it, solid axle is the way to go. There is nothing worst than staging your car and knowing in the back of your head that something will break. even if your a guy that only races once a month, it would 4 sure suck if on that one day a month where you plan on enjoying the car something breaks and miss up your weekend. With a solid axle there is no limit to are cars,

C4 + solid axle = Perfection

Trust me even with a solid axle you can still pick up girls with your vette , JK

RacerX70CC

Something I haven't seen in any of these threads about solid axles.... what about a driveshaft safety loop? This is mandatory for any vehicle running slicks at a legitimate NHRA/IHRA sanctioned dragstrip.

Does your kit address this concern?

0ski_dwn_it

Thank you for mentioning this. Yes my kits also include provisions for this. Not mentioning it was an oversight. MY BAD.

You are covered here as well, and really solid rear or not you should have one of these installed if your racing - regs say for slick, but I woud recommend ANYTIME.

Again it has EVERYTHING YOU need to be race legal.

Last time I went to Beaver Springs they went over the car very good, because they never really liked my car going like it did with the IRS, but there was nothin in the rules that could stop me. They were grossly impressed with the setup and when they saw it go, the track officials were even more convinced.

I had a couple breakages there, one where the passengers 1/2 shaft broke about 15ft out with the front up in the air, and when it broke the car violently went right and my passengers mirror just missed the starting tree by what the starting offical said was inches! I posted a video of that occurance a while back, NOT good.

It was always in the back of my mind while racing that if one of those thing broke 1/2 track the car would be HISTORY and I could be injured. I did it for a long time and was fortunate - but as Redl98 said, its something to seriously consider. If a kit like this was available it really would have weighed on my mind much more and I definately would have bought one.

I have the utmost confidence this setup is 100% safer, stronger and more reliable than the IRS. Our cars can again be fun - last year was a blast going to the track, pounding the livin daylights out of the car, and going home UNBROKEN.

LT4POWR

Looks awesome...kinda makes me wish that I'd hadn't already dropped a decent amount of money in my current d44.

Bowtie8

Nice work Jesse

Nice and straight

What pound coilovers you specifing for your settup?

John

red L98

big john in the house.... whats up man

Bowtie8

Not whole lot, enjoying the weather in Atlanta.
Pinks All Out is going to be here in April.
I'm going to put old blue in it see if I can get some camera time.
Nothing new to the vette right now. Still aspiring for a power adder, just have to sell some of these houses I have to free up the cash flow.

My Trailer got stolen down here, so I have to get that figured out in the next month. Possible going aluminum this time.

I put CATS on the vette to pass emisisons too. BS3 was pretty simple dialing it in.

Jesse's conversion is quite impressive. He took the initiative and I appreciate the use of a 12 bolt because is lighter. Filapowski in Hartland is running mid 7's in his F body and a 12 bolt. So I'm pretty sure Jesse has taken the right approach for the C4 guys. I am still unclear on what he did with the torque arm, but I'm sure there is a solution in the thread somwhere.

Stay in touch
John

0ski_dwn_it

John, the spring rate is 170# which is what is working great in my car right now. The car absolutely DEAD hooks every run and my 60' times are within .00X every run! No sense in messing with success.

Like I said prior, I have a system/method of supporting that trans that requires NO crossmember and NO torque arm. It doesn't violate the passengers compartment and requires NO welding to install. Its better than any crossmember I could build and does NOT hinder the ground clearance 1 bit.


For now I am keeping the idea/concept under wraps as I know others are trying to duplicate the setup. Their design has NO adjustment and requieres a Cross member. I am sure however after a few of mine get out there it will leak out and they too will be doing the same thing. They are already spouting off about adjustment on the 4 link after seeing my photos. What a grand idea it would be to put adjustments on your 4link setup.

My setups come with photo by step instructions on how to setup and install the 4link into your C4. Plus I am always available for those that require a little help with something that crops up. When designing the system I tried to make it as easy and simple as possible, but offer ALL the functions of a true 4 link. Its really simple and as John mentioned effective to a very rediculous level of performance

Johns car is another prime example of what these cars can do with a solid rear....check out his avatar. Here is another that only runs bottom 11s and is one of the most lethal combos on the West Coast racing circuit. I studied this car for a while when doing my car.

Bowtie8

Very Good Jesse, Your coil overs are exactly what I would have used if I put the coils behind the axle.
My settup is very unique in the C4's being a torque arm settup similer to F body, however I put the QA1's in front of the axle, thus yield a 200# rate.
Giddy Up on torque arm settup. There are a lot of snakes out there thats for sure.
I have been working a buddy on a 4L80E conversion in a C5, started out with Yank and realized there are a lot of FruitCakes out there claiming competency. Bottom line, had to do rebuild the internal trans, replace the output shaft, and cut the car, all things that where supposadly not necessary.

Your design as a bolt in is long overdue. Over 80% of the C4 have already had U-Joints and alignments done at a price of over $1000 a pop at a shop, so its huge cost benifit for those ever intending on putting sticky tires under their car.

Remember when I was running ZF. I was running 11.0's in a SCCA event in MI, with Speed Channel. I ran 11.0 All day Friday, All day Saturday and a 2pm Sunday Final round, I was next to a 13.0 C5 and lost because I twisted the hardened outer spindle. 1.50 60ft for 15 passes. It was quite an honor to have 20K people and the cameras in your face as your buddies push your shiny blue car out of the way for the next guy. This was when I put the Solid Rear in!

Kudos to you.

Best
John

0ski_dwn_it

John.

Thanks for all the comments and encouragement. I think these setups will be a huge hit once people start to see how easy it is to install and how great it transforms these cars.

I might have to put one together for my fathers BONE STOCK vette and take it out just to show what it can do with one of these setups in it. I know it would be pretty impressive even in stock form.

Keep in touch