please help,cloyes t/chain problem!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
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please help,cloyes t/chain problem!!
hello guys,
i have a cloyes # 9-3145 true roller timing chain set.
i also have a 4 bolt roller block ,casting number # 14093638 and comp cam hydraulic roller cam.
i went to fit the cloyes timing sprocket onto the cam and the bolt holes dont line first of all.
then the sprocket sits to close to the block and has no clearance.
the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.
what is wrong??
do i have the wrong timing chain kit or some thing ??
is there another option please ??
what about the comp cam brand billet style double timing chain kits,any good at all ?
thsi comp cam tech guy said i have to use the old style timing chain,what does he mean by that ??
and he said to use a roller cam button also and leave off retainer/ thrust plate, why is that??
are the old style timing chains any good though??, i dont want to run/use a single chain sh#it set up,i want a bilet style/dual roller kit to use !!
can you guys please help and advise me please
thanks very much guys.
cheers
i have a cloyes # 9-3145 true roller timing chain set.
i also have a 4 bolt roller block ,casting number # 14093638 and comp cam hydraulic roller cam.
i went to fit the cloyes timing sprocket onto the cam and the bolt holes dont line first of all.
then the sprocket sits to close to the block and has no clearance.
the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.
what is wrong??
do i have the wrong timing chain kit or some thing ??
is there another option please ??
what about the comp cam brand billet style double timing chain kits,any good at all ?
thsi comp cam tech guy said i have to use the old style timing chain,what does he mean by that ??
and he said to use a roller cam button also and leave off retainer/ thrust plate, why is that??
are the old style timing chains any good though??, i dont want to run/use a single chain sh#it set up,i want a bilet style/dual roller kit to use !!
can you guys please help and advise me please
thanks very much guys.
cheers
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
then the sprocket sits to close to the block and has no clearance.
what is wrong?? thsi comp cam tech guy said i have to use the old style timing chain,what does he mean by that ?? and he said to use a roller cam button also and leave off retainer/ thrust plate, why is that??
what is wrong?? thsi comp cam tech guy said i have to use the old style timing chain,what does he mean by that ?? and he said to use a roller cam button also and leave off retainer/ thrust plate, why is that??
I am using the 9-3145 w/no problem, the sprocket fits close (back side of cam gear) still the chain and gear has enough clearance to the block .
Why would CC recommend old syle (cam button)and leave plate off? It sounds like there is a cam issue for the application (non-roler block), have you cross checked the part number on there site?
Last edited by mseven; Feb 16, 2008 at 07:10 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
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hi mseven,
how are ya!
thanks for the quick reply mate!, im not sure i guess the cam was designed for a roller block.
i told the tech guy at comp cams to be for a roller block for corvette and 4 bolt mains caps .
also the sprocket has no clearance at all and rubs up against the block housing no matter which way you turn the sprocket around!!
i havent cross checked the part numbers at all,but here is my cam part numbers, # 12-000-14,
cs 47 3017s / 3018s hr111.0
sn# m 6440-08
duration@ .50" is 236/242
advanced duration 286/292
lobe sep 111
valve lift .580/.585
gee i hope i havent got the wrong style cam,it cost me about $380.00,its got the lot with 4-7 fire order swap,billet core e.c.t
thanks for the reply
cheers
how are ya!
thanks for the quick reply mate!, im not sure i guess the cam was designed for a roller block.
i told the tech guy at comp cams to be for a roller block for corvette and 4 bolt mains caps .
also the sprocket has no clearance at all and rubs up against the block housing no matter which way you turn the sprocket around!!
i havent cross checked the part numbers at all,but here is my cam part numbers, # 12-000-14,
cs 47 3017s / 3018s hr111.0
sn# m 6440-08
duration@ .50" is 236/242
advanced duration 286/292
lobe sep 111
valve lift .580/.585
gee i hope i havent got the wrong style cam,it cost me about $380.00,its got the lot with 4-7 fire order swap,billet core e.c.t
thanks for the reply
cheers
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,838
Likes: 31
From: Australia
Don't know why you insist on buying out of the USA ( no offense guys ) ,taking into account exchange rates and shipping when there are top of the range local products that are exported to the States.
Rollmaster #CS-1020 ,
guaranteed to fit if you have a factory style roller cam.
"the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.what is wrong??"
The retainer plate doesn't cover the cam , it fits into a recess cut in the front of the cam.
From what the tech is saying sounds like they sold you a old style "retro" fit cam that needs a thrust button.
Does the front of your new cam look like the old one????
12-000-14 is a custom grind , you will have to phone them for info
Rollmaster #CS-1020 ,
guaranteed to fit if you have a factory style roller cam.
"the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.what is wrong??"
The retainer plate doesn't cover the cam , it fits into a recess cut in the front of the cam.
From what the tech is saying sounds like they sold you a old style "retro" fit cam that needs a thrust button.
Does the front of your new cam look like the old one????
12-000-14 is a custom grind , you will have to phone them for info
Last edited by rodj; Feb 16, 2008 at 07:17 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
hi mseven,
how are ya! thanks for the quick reply mate!, im not sure i guess the cam was designed for a roller block.
i told the tech guy at comp cams to be for a roller block for corvette and 4 bolt mains caps .also the sprocket has no clearance at all and rubs up against the block housing no matter which way you turn the sprocket around!!
how are ya! thanks for the quick reply mate!, im not sure i guess the cam was designed for a roller block.
i told the tech guy at comp cams to be for a roller block for corvette and 4 bolt mains caps .also the sprocket has no clearance at all and rubs up against the block housing no matter which way you turn the sprocket around!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Don't know why you insist on buying out of the USA ( no offense guys ) ,taking into account exchange rates and shipping when there are top of the range local products that are exported to the States.
Rollmaster #CS-1020 ,
guaranteed to fit if you have a factory style roller cam.
"the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.what is wrong??"
The retainer plate doesn't cover the cam , it fits into a recess cut in the front of the cam.
From what the tech is saying sounds like they sold you a old style "retro" fit cam that needs a thrust button.
Does the front of your new cam look like the old one????
12-000-14 is a custom grind , you will have to phone them for info
Rollmaster #CS-1020 ,
guaranteed to fit if you have a factory style roller cam.
"the thrust plate fits over the cam end ok, but only covers the cam about 1.5 mm each side all round.what is wrong??"
The retainer plate doesn't cover the cam , it fits into a recess cut in the front of the cam.
From what the tech is saying sounds like they sold you a old style "retro" fit cam that needs a thrust button.
Does the front of your new cam look like the old one????
12-000-14 is a custom grind , you will have to phone them for info
how are ya mate,
i dont like to buy local, they are rip offs man.
so if i do have a retro fit cam, are they sh#it or any good??
can i still use a true dual roller timing chain with it ??
i dont have the old cam to look at mate,sorry.
btw mesevn,no engine is still on stand.
i brought already a crane cam roller style cam button,will this work with it ??
will this rollermaster timing chain kit fit then what i have ?
do they come in billet sprockets ??
are they true dual roller chain ??
i wouldnt mind buying next if i have buy a new timing chain kit a billet style set
my bolt hole measurements from centre of hole to centre of hole measure 33 mm apart on the end of cam.
the cam fits ok into block no problem though
thanks guys.
Last edited by prism_kiter; Feb 16, 2008 at 07:34 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,838
Likes: 31
From: Australia
True roller timing set are available for either.
"i dont like to buy local, they are rip offs man."
Rollmaster set A$100 -$110
Cloyes US$90 =A$105 + shipping A$35
Can't see any rip off there
"i dont like to buy local, they are rip offs man."
Rollmaster set A$100 -$110
Cloyes US$90 =A$105 + shipping A$35
Can't see any rip off there
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
I also agree with comparing the new one w/the original.
prism klter, if after inspection the cam is for a non-roller, and since you asked them (CC) specifically for your application (roller block), I would call and ask for exchange (policy on custom orders maybe be a problem), and not just a "fix" to make it work. I would also state that is why you ordered it from them to begin with, so as to not use a button/cover set-up, and not have any problems.
of course, this is all provided that is where the problem is, and not somewhere else in the set-up
I just read new block (slow typing), who installed bearings and rear "plug" which would control cam endplay (to some degree)in the block. If the new cam has a a recess cut for the cam retainer, you could put the cam in, bolt down plate for mock up and check end play and see where you are at.
If you end up going w/button set-up, I would also invest in a good Timing cover.
Last edited by mseven; Feb 16, 2008 at 07:53 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 117
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hi guys,
i still prefer to buy usa made!!!
the machine shop installed new cam bearings and rear plug.
there doesnt seem to be a reccess cut in the cam for the retainer plate though.
also there doesnt seems to be much end play either.cam fits nice and ok.
i dont think you can return custom grind cams also,dam!!
please keep the thoughts and ideas coming as im off to bed now and will respond back in the morning
thanks
i still prefer to buy usa made!!!
the machine shop installed new cam bearings and rear plug.
there doesnt seem to be a reccess cut in the cam for the retainer plate though.
also there doesnt seems to be much end play either.cam fits nice and ok.
i dont think you can return custom grind cams also,dam!!
please keep the thoughts and ideas coming as im off to bed now and will respond back in the morning
thanks
Last edited by prism_kiter; Feb 16, 2008 at 07:58 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
I'm sure the MFG.s over here like hearing that stuff 
I kind of figured that w/custom ordered stuff. Sounds like you will be using a button set-up, I wouldn't worry about using a button/cover set-up, many have for years and still do.
the machine shop installed new cam bearings and rear plug.
there doesnt seem to be a reccess cut in the cam for the retainer plate though. also there doesnt seems to be much end play either.cam fits nice and ok.i dont think you can return custom grind cams also,dam!!
there doesnt seem to be a reccess cut in the cam for the retainer plate though. also there doesnt seems to be much end play either.cam fits nice and ok.i dont think you can return custom grind cams also,dam!!
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 35,065
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
hi guys,
thanks for your help and input with my darn timing chain problem.
this block i have is a 4 bolt roller block,so do i still need to remove a small area like you said larry behind the sprocket thrust plate @ 12.00 o,clock position??
ok so if i have to use the a roller cam buton,no problem,but im still confused on what timing chain kit to use guys??
thnaks jsup for the link that was your problem,may be i should find out from comp cam tech guy who sold me the cam what the cam is for !!
then see if reccoemnd what timing chain kit i need.
in the link i read,there was the cloyes,#9-3100,# 9-1145,# 9-3145 which i already have here,# 9-1157,# 9-3039
this is giving the sh#its i tell ya.
one problem after another.
i guess i will have to wait to hear back from the comp cam tech guy by email.
but regradles of my problem,i will be stil using/installing a duel roller timing chain yeah??
even if my cam is a retro fit old style wont i ??
thanks once again fellas...
thanks for your help and input with my darn timing chain problem.
this block i have is a 4 bolt roller block,so do i still need to remove a small area like you said larry behind the sprocket thrust plate @ 12.00 o,clock position??
ok so if i have to use the a roller cam buton,no problem,but im still confused on what timing chain kit to use guys??
thnaks jsup for the link that was your problem,may be i should find out from comp cam tech guy who sold me the cam what the cam is for !!
then see if reccoemnd what timing chain kit i need.
in the link i read,there was the cloyes,#9-3100,# 9-1145,# 9-3145 which i already have here,# 9-1157,# 9-3039
this is giving the sh#its i tell ya.
one problem after another.
i guess i will have to wait to hear back from the comp cam tech guy by email.
but regradles of my problem,i will be stil using/installing a duel roller timing chain yeah??
even if my cam is a retro fit old style wont i ??
thanks once again fellas...
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 35,065
Likes: 0
From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
hi guys,
thanks for your help and input with my darn timing chain problem.
this block i have is a 4 bolt roller block,so do i still need to remove a small area like you said larry behind the sprocket thrust plate @ 12.00 o,clock position??
ok so if i have to use the a roller cam buton,no problem,but im still confused on what timing chain kit to use guys??
thnaks jsup for the link that was your problem,may be i should find out from comp cam tech guy who sold me the cam what the cam is for !!
then see if reccoemnd what timing chain kit i need.
in the link i read,there was the cloyes,#9-3100,# 9-1145,# 9-3145 which i already have here,# 9-1157,# 9-3039
this is giving the sh#its i tell ya.
one problem after another.
i guess i will have to wait to hear back from the comp cam tech guy by email.
but regradles of my problem,i will be stil using/installing a duel roller timing chain yeah??
even if my cam is a retro fit old style wont i ??
thanks once again fellas...
thanks for your help and input with my darn timing chain problem.
this block i have is a 4 bolt roller block,so do i still need to remove a small area like you said larry behind the sprocket thrust plate @ 12.00 o,clock position??
ok so if i have to use the a roller cam buton,no problem,but im still confused on what timing chain kit to use guys??
thnaks jsup for the link that was your problem,may be i should find out from comp cam tech guy who sold me the cam what the cam is for !!
then see if reccoemnd what timing chain kit i need.
in the link i read,there was the cloyes,#9-3100,# 9-1145,# 9-3145 which i already have here,# 9-1157,# 9-3039
this is giving the sh#its i tell ya.
one problem after another.
i guess i will have to wait to hear back from the comp cam tech guy by email.
but regradles of my problem,i will be stil using/installing a duel roller timing chain yeah??
even if my cam is a retro fit old style wont i ??
thanks once again fellas...
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
hi guys,
got a new update progress.
well i went to my local auto barn outlet and took my new comp roller cam with me.
i came across a brand of qulaity timing chain kit called " jp performance" timing chain kits
sell for about $95.00 trade price.
here is the website, www.jp.com.au and click on jp performance products link up near the top.
part # jp 5981 or # jp 5981 T which comes with a Torrington bearing fitted.
they are billet sprockets,heat treated,dual roller chain and multiple crank sprocket key way settings.
and the jp 5981 they had in stock fitted my cam shaft and i took it home and it also cleared my front of 4 bolt roller block with the thrust plate kept off.
so i think i found what i need guys now.
thanks for all your replies and advise,much appreciated
cheers
got a new update progress.
well i went to my local auto barn outlet and took my new comp roller cam with me.
i came across a brand of qulaity timing chain kit called " jp performance" timing chain kits
sell for about $95.00 trade price.
here is the website, www.jp.com.au and click on jp performance products link up near the top.
part # jp 5981 or # jp 5981 T which comes with a Torrington bearing fitted.
they are billet sprockets,heat treated,dual roller chain and multiple crank sprocket key way settings.
and the jp 5981 they had in stock fitted my cam shaft and i took it home and it also cleared my front of 4 bolt roller block with the thrust plate kept off.
so i think i found what i need guys now.
thanks for all your replies and advise,much appreciated
cheers
Last edited by prism_kiter; Feb 17, 2008 at 05:19 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,838
Likes: 31
From: Australia
"i dont like to buy local, they are rip offs man.
well i went to my local auto barn outlet .i came across a brand of qulaity timing chain kit called " jp performance" timing chain kits sell for about $95.00 trade price."
Hate to say ;told you so .
JP and Rollmaster are some of the best parts out there.Very popular with Oz drag racing crowd.
well i went to my local auto barn outlet .i came across a brand of qulaity timing chain kit called " jp performance" timing chain kits sell for about $95.00 trade price."
Hate to say ;told you so .
JP and Rollmaster are some of the best parts out there.Very popular with Oz drag racing crowd.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
I know it is to late and that you've solved the problem, but just FYI, that is a retro fit cam for a non-roller block. That is why CC told you to use a cam thrust button. One that OE roller cams don't need due to the retainer plate. If that cam were intended to be for a roller block the part number would have been "8-000-XX", instead of starting with a "12". As you now know, the main concern, after the plate/retainer question, is the timing set. Ironic, I think. With all that concern over getting a roller cam block, you end up with a retro fit cam, where the block used makes no difference. I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
hi there guys,
even though i brought this time local, i still prefer to buy usa made stuff,oh well!
i otta say though,the cam sprocket only just clears the block though,is it suppose to be that close ??
now having a darn retofit cam,what a pain and nuisance i say !
is it a problem long term having a retro fit cam and having to use a roller cam thrust button ??
is my timing chain cover going to wear and be destroyed at all ??
i dont like the idea at all having to use this roller cam thrust button crap actually guys !!, but there is no choice is there!!
now what about the sprocket with a built in Torrington bearing fitted,is that a good idea and can help some what ??
the cam sprocket should only fit on one way isnt it ??
thanks
even though i brought this time local, i still prefer to buy usa made stuff,oh well!
i otta say though,the cam sprocket only just clears the block though,is it suppose to be that close ??
now having a darn retofit cam,what a pain and nuisance i say !
is it a problem long term having a retro fit cam and having to use a roller cam thrust button ??
is my timing chain cover going to wear and be destroyed at all ??
i dont like the idea at all having to use this roller cam thrust button crap actually guys !!, but there is no choice is there!!
now what about the sprocket with a built in Torrington bearing fitted,is that a good idea and can help some what ??
the cam sprocket should only fit on one way isnt it ??
thanks