can you read this spark plug?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
he thinks I have a vacuum leak
Here is a snapshot of datamaster
Last edited by ch@0s; Jun 3, 2009 at 12:05 AM.
Team Owner
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From: Riverside County Southern California
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turn you camera's macro on
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
The snap on the left doesn't tell the whole story, the histogram when clicking on a cell tells the average.....however the dark red shows very rich, including de-cell. The white blocks/cells in your histogram shows cells (rpm vs. load) that are functioning about normal. The base of that plug despite the picture qualty looks completely sooted. I also wouldn't be flooring the car (100kpa areas)until you have the tune sorted out.
Did you read what I posted yesterday when you said the BLM was 108?
Did you read what I posted yesterday when you said the BLM was 108?
Last edited by mseven; Jun 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
The snap on the left is still in open loop, the histogram w/out clicking on a cell doesn't tell the average.....however the dark red shows very rich. The white blocks/cells in your histogram shows cells (rpm vs. load) that are functioning about normal. The base of that plug despite the picture qualty looks completely sooted. I also wouldn't be flooring the car (100kpa areas)until you have the tune sorted out.
Did you read what I posted yesterday when you said the BLM was 108?
Did you read what I posted yesterday when you said the BLM was 108?
Hopefully soon after 9 months and 5 teardowns it will be right
Pro
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 682
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From: loxahatchee fla
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...php?f=70&t=202
the sub-linked info should help
if the picture was crystal clear a great deal of info about the cylinder temp and burn conditions could be found in the plugs appearance
the sub-linked info should help
if the picture was crystal clear a great deal of info about the cylinder temp and burn conditions could be found in the plugs appearance
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 34,988
Likes: 515
From: Riverside County Southern California
Co-winner 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C4 of Year
2016 C7 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '20
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Your min IAC cts. tells me that you still need to bring down the cts. at idle.
Getting a tune right takes time and good datalogs to provide your tuner what is going on and the trend of what is happening w/the fueling, timing etc.. This will take effort on both parties to get the tune consistant and a locked in BLM.
Last edited by mseven; Jun 3, 2009 at 11:18 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 30
From: Los Angeles CA
the ecm will operate in a broad range and compensate, thats what the o2 sensor, intergrater and the BLM will do, real time
my datalog swings lean and rich all the time, I'm no expert but you may have recored some knock events, if not you many not be too lean.
my datalog swings lean and rich all the time, I'm no expert but you may have recored some knock events, if not you many not be too lean.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
, the 02 provides the input, the BLM does not comp. anything....in real time or other wise. The ecm can comp but only to a small degree, and are by nature very slow. Unless it is very close you will have to drive for quite some time for it to comp. There is also a point of no comping in an SD ecm, as the ecm uses look up tables to calculate fueling etc. Try as it might, if the numbers aren't there the ECM has no capability of reasoning...in other words in cannot take numbers provided in the tables and make it equal what it may actually be needed. (for example. 2+2 does not equal 5). In the snap he provided he has recorded knock events (67 at that point in the log), however it would have retarded the timing and being that his overall blm is 108, does not suggest lean.
Last edited by mseven; Jun 3, 2009 at 11:41 AM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...php?f=70&t=202
the sub-linked info should help
if the picture was crystal clear a great deal of info about the cylinder temp and burn conditions could be found in the plugs appearance
the sub-linked info should help
if the picture was crystal clear a great deal of info about the cylinder temp and burn conditions could be found in the plugs appearance
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
your welcome, looking at your snap on the left I also noted that the target AFR 14.63 and not 14.73, additonally the PW at 2.9 is high for only 1350 rpm @60kpa. If you compare that to the histogram you will note that the area is overall rich but not when in trim cell 10 (in the snap). So, that means the ecm bumped into 10 but usually in at that rpm/load you would be in trim cell 4 or 5 (providing no one changed the boundries), which would still be rich. Trim cell 10's boundries are usually above 1600rpm from 50-60 kpa (roughly), also note the ST is low and may have been sinking, which would have then changed the BLM for that cell.
Your min IAC cts. tells me that you still need to bring down the cts. at idle.
Getting a tune right takes time and good datalogs to provide your tuner what is going on and the trend of what is happening w/the fueling, timing etc.. This will take effort on both parties to get the tune consistant and a locked in BLM.
Your min IAC cts. tells me that you still need to bring down the cts. at idle.
Getting a tune right takes time and good datalogs to provide your tuner what is going on and the trend of what is happening w/the fueling, timing etc.. This will take effort on both parties to get the tune consistant and a locked in BLM.
Yes I see that now, my tuner has been great and very patient with me.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 30
From: Los Angeles CA
, the 02 provides the input, the BLM does not comp. anything....in real time or other wise. The ecm can comp but only to a small degree, and are by nature very slow. Unless it is very close you will have to drive for quite some time for it to comp. There is also a point of no comping in an SD ecm, as the ecm uses look up tables to calculate fueling etc. Try as it might, if the numbers aren't there the ECM has no capability of reasoning...in other words in cannot take numbers provided in the tables and make it equal what it may actually be needed. (for example. 2+2 does not equal 5). In the snap he provided he has recorded knock events (67 at that point in the log), however it would have retarded the timing and being that his overall blm is 108, does not suggest lean.
he has a 32k bin file and possibly a faster computing with his 730 box v. my 165 although the 8192 baud may be the determining facotr
he could constant the INT perfomance closer to the BLM and shorten reaction time.
the engineers design the INT to sense at 20 a second, this means they were and are aware that comps shold be deploy at adequete rates.
I don't know how modified the engine is, this alone may require more comp than the ECM can provide, but I guess that's where the pressure and the sizing of fueling components meet use needs.