STL94LT1

Great design, poor placement.

joe wilson

Whew, I'm glad my old 85 doesn't have anything like the opti-spark on it, just a plain old distributor. I was thinking about buying an LT-1 but now I think I'll pass.

whobub

Unfortunately placement is PART of the design. That's why we design single engine aircraft to have a propeller in the proper position--to work and not fail from any other source. With proper inspection/maintenance there was a fail-safe environment. With autos, all they do is convene a meeting and give that collective "Ooops--we'd better redesign that". Thank goodness for aftermarket parts

Yes, I'm a fan of the older Vette as well (older American cars in general), but in your '85 year I'm sure you didn't get fully away from the CA emissions crap--I believe that's when it all started going downhill.

The good ol' fashioned distributor cap would have been fine by me. Unless racing, there's no need for all that high tech synchronicity; but I guess the California emissions messed it up for quite a few of us these past 30+ years Besides, many of us "old school" hot rodders were content with replacing the distributor for a magneto "back in the day".

But I digress. . . latest start attempt to be tested in about another hour or so (1800 PDT).

Bluewasp

Did she start up fine today? If not, let her sit for a day or two in the garage with the hood open. She'll dry out.

whobub

No luck today 'Bluewasp'. . . Yeah, got the hood up, changing fan positions, now adding a drop light to the area to keep (dry) heat circulating. Here in Salem, Oregon it's been 107 degrees for a couple of days straight with 44% humidity, so it's a bit uncomfortable for ME to get started so I'm cutting the C4 some slack.

So I hope you're right Bluewasp--I'll sit this one out as long as I can take it. I'm too low on cash after my layoff at HP. . . Friday, 7/31 will be a full 2 days, so I hope it is soon.

theadmiral94

Whobub,

re: codes, no need to start the car, in fact procedure specifies that you DO NOT try.

suggest pulling them immediately, as it will tell us all where to go from here...

However, I'm starting to wonder if you may not have a completely different problem causing your no start...

Have you checked some of the basics (spark, gas)?

Some common problems that occur are:

on gas: fuel pump failure, fuel pump fuse failure, fuel pump relay failure, clogged fuel line (pump sock, fuel filter). Do you have fuel at the fuel rail (check schrader valve, with key on and then key off -- but be careful)?

on spark: coil, coil wire, ingition coil module, fuses, wiring. (old trick is start with a timing light on spark plug wires and work backwards).

whobub

Thanks again 'admiral' for the pointers/suggestions. I'll engage these after today's "dry out" attempt/hopes.

Re: code "reads". . . Now that I've disconnected the battery to charge it, have I compromised the "memory" of these codes? Or are they stored? If so, I assume there are some non-volatile memory storage capabilities?

As I alluded in another post, I too am starting to suspect possible other gremlins. . .But it's still my guess is that since it ran fine immediately BEFORE the wash (and since it's purchase in early July), and with the known issue with the opti (to everyone but me until recent days ) that there was/is fuel, spark, etc. It HAS started in previous turn-overs, but has run extremely rough, backfires, etc along with classic timing issues.

I actually have the tool for spark recognition (simple tool short of a timing light) and will follow-up with the fuel line check you mention.

BTW--stupid question since my FSM is on order. . . where is the "fuel rail"?

Thanks again for your follow-up suggestions, this all helps tremendously towards research offline of this forum. I'll report back later today, again after a (hopefully) final day of 'dry out hopes'.

theadmiral94

Whobub,

re: codes -- didn't realize you were disconnecting battery -- unfortunately, that 'clears' the codes -- however, after you reconnect the battery to try to start it again, it will create them again, so after trying, if it doesn't start, then turn it off, do paper-clip thing, and then turn on the key (don't try and start) and read the codes per the previous link and advise..

re: it maybe being other things -- whereas water is known to damage the opti, water can also play havoc with other things (e.g. coil had a crack and sucked-in water) -- and most often by now the OPTI would have dried-out enough to start -- so I'd start looking at all the other posibilities (don't forget the simple things too, like fuses)...

re: fuel rail -- it is the aluminum tube-like object sitting just below the plastic engine covers (if your has them), between the head and intake manifold and to which the fuel injectors are attached. Somewhere before or along it (possibly on the passenger side) should be a schrader valve (bicycle valve) to which a pressure gauge can be connected.

good luck

whobub

To all: My apologies in advance for the length of this latest "report", but wanted to recap for all interested, and listing below the "lessons learned" thus far as well as "next steps", so I hope it is useful and worth your time. Thanks in advance also to the many contributors on this re-visited topic.

Special thanks to 'the admiral' (theadmiral94) for taking the time to specifically address my lame/uninformed questions of "where is the fuel rail?" -- your verbal/written description led me right to it!!!!

I held off writing until today as I wanted to see what today's morning would bring (Saturday, Aug 1, 2009) other than the 'honey do' list that was mounting up from too much time spent on HER Vette that I broke).

Some GOOD news to report folks!!! Thanks again to those of you whom contributed to the "what ifs" in this thread, I was able to start it up last night!!!

I'll try not breaking my arm patting myself on the back for being just too lazy and cheap for and not wanting to do the other "worst case scenario" or replacing all those parts Like the saying goes, "Hard work pays off in the long run; laziness pays off immediately" But I couldn't help but be inspired with the great hopes that 'Bluewasp' laid down so well

It still ran really rough at first, but actually STAYED running. Kept it running for 15+ minutes just at an idle--seemed to smooth out. Continued the fans on it for another hour+, attempted another restart. This 2nd restart started to act like another timing issue (backfired), so it startled me for a bit that I'd be back to square one. But another 15+ minutes at idle seemed to do the trick.

Whereas before it was dying straight away and not able to regain its composure to restart, this morning it fired up and said "take me for a drive" (lyrics of Jimi Hendrix--some of you might remember ).

Let it sit overnight. . . Today it is running as good as it seems it ever has been after a 10+ mile test drive. Not ONE backfire when I turned it loose at 35 MPH, peddle to the medal and hit 90 MPH without a hitch or burb.

I still plan on pulling the codes and do the "paper clip" thing the 'admiral' mentions, as well as checking out the other potentially leading issues he mentioned (fuel, spark, etc). I too am still curious if there might possibly be some other thing affected as the admiral and others have alluded, so I'm going to stay on this. Here's that link again so others that might run across this thread don't have to "back peddle"). The well-written artlcle/step-by-step process is entitled "Recovering the C4 ECM/PCM Codes"

http://corvettebuyers.com/c4vettes/ecm.htm

So in summary, reporting all is going well/better--I think patience and laziness won out here -- and the moving of the direction of the fans used for drying, adding some dry heat to the area didn't hurt I'm sure (and added one to come from underneath the engine as well). Thanks again 'Bluewasp' for the confidence that ". . .she'll dry out. . ."

I'll report back with any derogatory codes (or unintelligible ones for that matter ) that I find from the process/link mentioned earlier in this thread. I now have some planning to do for future repairs based on all who chimed in here. My God. . . if heavy water or rain can effect this opti-spark as one of the posters stated, then the work is bound to HAVE to be done eventually.

Summary of lesson learned thus far:

1. DON'T wash the engine!!!!! (stupid me)
2a. One poster mentioned, even if opti is "vented" issue will not eliminate getting water to/on the opti
3. Plan on replacing the opti from 60K miles or thereafter.
3a. Look into MSD or Dynaspark opti and not the GM OEM replacement
4. May as well start saving $$$ now to plan for what sounds to be an inevitable exercise -- my estimated are approximately $2K - $3K
5. Replacing all parts possible from the opti-spark forward to the radiator, or as many as you can afford in time and $$$

Thanks again to the many. Hopefully this more recent coverage of this topic (that no doubt was covered over the years past) and our recap of the "issues" and mitigating them will be useful for the others to come, and even those that have been around for some time.

Again, apologies for the length of this latest "report", but wanted to recap for all interested.

Jesse/whobub (WHO-BE-YOU-BE, not WHO-BUB)

theadmiral94

Jesse/whobub (WHO-BE-YOU-BE),

you are more than welcome and very glad it has all worked out in the end... best of luck...

Talk to you soon...

P.S. in case I didn't say it in any earlier posts, welcome to the forum and congrats on your 'new to you' Vette...

whobub

BTW--Codes checked out "okay", but a code reader would probably make the job of counting "Check Engine" light a bit less time-consuming. All I could get was what that article mentioned as code 12 repeating itself over and over (which as you know is that "start/end" to the code pull sequence).

Yes, this "new to me" Vette is the wife's -- I got it for her, hence was desperate to see what her "new" car had wrong with it. I already told her "the folks at the Corvette Forum obviously have more experience with these than I". In other words you all got the credit and not my "master mechanics" in aviation. I can make it fly

Thanks again, Jesse/whobub

theadmiral94

whobub,

odd that there was no codes (presume the battery was not disconnected since this last 'not starting' to now running -- if it was, then might explain the no codes as ECM forgets codes when battery is disconnected).

ALmost suggests it was not the OPTI as most times a no-start situation occurs, and it turns out to be the OPTI, it did throw codes.

re: code reader, true, but you'll need a more advanced code reader than the typical autozone or wallyworld units, as the 93 is pre-OBDII, so there were no standards between car manufacturers so a reader needed 'cards' or programming for each type of car.

You could look around for a 'tech-1', might find one for sale on ebay by a mechanic upgrading...

Again thanks for the 'credit', I'll look you up when I'm ready to 'leave the ground' for more than a moment over a bad bump...

Heckler45

Another great opti thread. I must say that in the 8 years I've had mine and 7 years here on the forum I always learn something new on an opti thread. Kudos to those who have shared so much on such a PITA problem that we all love and hate.

-Dave

larry00

First off the OEM opti is designed to last 160,000 miles and often go over 250,000 miles. Change the rotor and cap after 60,000 miles.

It's really not the opti's fault Uncle Dave put it under the Water Pump in such a place.
Do your new wires when you do the Opti and put the driver side wires on the opti before stabbing it in.
Here is a good link and replace those pesky seals on both the Water pump and behind the opti even if they were not leaking.

This is vented model but close enough w/pics !
http://www.impalasuperstore.com/nais...TOPIC_ID=30984

jaa1992

whobub - on the 92 and 93 there is another paperclip code reading trick that will display the codes for each module on the digital dash. I think I still have the PDF file somewhere, if I find it I can email it to you. The same information is in the FSM so if I don't find the PDF I'll scan those pages from my FSM.

I'm going to be at Road Atlanta fri, sat, sun so It will probably be early next week.

whobub

As a post-incident follow-up, I thought I'd update everyone on the status of this old 'Vette. After over a week since it "dried out", it appears that it is running just fine. If anything, it actually starts quicker!!! Maybe it needed that cleaning/rinse

To "Larry00" -- thanks for that link/reference for the seal/gasket maintenance!! EXCELLENT pics and step-by-step info there. Even if it was from an Impala, a PITA is a PITA for this part of GM maintenance

To "jaa1992" -- I'd be interested in seeing that other "paper clip" trick. I just got my FSM in (books 1 and 2), but posting something here might help one and all.

To "Heckler45" -- Thanks for the feedback; it helps us all when there is 3rd party feedback on how the thread went. I hope by my setting an example to follow-up AFTER the issues seem to be resolved will help others understand that it is many times the reports AFTER the problem is hashed out that many of us decide "Yeah, I'll try that".

In closing and as a (long) side note to the FSM--the FSM that I ordered was from Helminc.com at a fairly significant cost of $155 ($20+ of that which was shipping and "handling"--a separate $6.75 line item on the order). What upset me with them is that they PHOTOCOPIED volume 2, punched holes in it for a 3-ring binder, and shrink-wrapped in plastic!!!!! They didn't even include the 5" binder required!!!!! That'll be another $10 if I find one. No complaints with their volume #1 as it looked like the original. But I sent a complaint to their customer service "feedback" that this was unacceptable for the cost they charged. Just wanted to warn all whom might be in the market for "factory-authorized" FSM from the "source" may not get what they are paying for. They DO say "reproduction" on their site, but this is not reproduced!!!!! That is a photo copy; a "reproduction" would indicate that they made it like the original, as in a "1955 Chevrolet reproduction car" isn't taking a picture of it and then selling it to unsuspecting customers for $45,000. . . if you know what I mean.

My apologies for my post-ending rant. . .

Thanks again to all, Jesse/whobub

robsball

After reading on all the dangers of engine washing and how best to do it, I finally washed the engine today. I double wrapped the optispark with plastic. I used Gunk, let is sit about 10 mins or so and gently rinsed.

It started right up, ran fine, I pulled it into the garage. Left the hood open and allowed it to run for about 20 mins - no issue

Now 6 hours later no starty. I read through this thread so I guess I'll put a fan on it tonight.

kyyote

That clinches it for me. I MAY, in the future, grab a box of baby wipes to gently pass accross the inside of my hood. Maybe.

robsball

I know right. It'll recover she's just showing me who the boss is.


I'm using a small portable fan so I can place directly on the engine in key spots. This morning, still no starty. I'll give it 5 days then I'll start really crying.

Besides the humidity in good ole Virginia is killer this week.

Blue 92

After almost two years I'm sure the original posters Opti has finally dried out.