What is too much torque?
Thread Starter
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From: Overland Park Kansas
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(The lack of pee is how I know I haven't seen too much torque yet!
)
For curiousity, I'll see what Superior says. OTOH, I'm fairly sure I already have some 85W140 in the garage (left over from the Jeep). Moreover, it'd be the ONLY weight I have on hand. (Kinda why I asked about putting it in the Isuzu.)
IIRC, it's Lucas brand. Gotta anything against Lucas diff lubes? I know people bash the stabilizers that may cause foaming. Never tried them as such, but it seems like [other] Lucas products come up pretty often in racing circles.
I also use Lucas PS pump stabilizer. Its stopped my whine. (Unless you count the earlier posts in this thread!
)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
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Reread this thread is you didn't think I was ALREADY the "worried & scared" type! Good news is I haven't wet my pants yet!
(The lack of pee is how I know I haven't seen too much torque yet!)
For curiousity, I'll see what Superior says. OTOH, I'm fairly sure I already have some 85W140 in the garage (left over from the Jeep). Moreover, it'd be the ONLY weight I have on hand. (Kinda why I asked about putting it in the Isuzu.)
IIRC, it's Lucas brand. Gotta anything against Lucas diff lubes? I know people bash the stabilizers that may cause foaming. Never tried them as such, but it seems like [other] Lucas products come up pretty often in racing circles.
I also use Lucas PS pump stabilizer. Its stopped my whine. (Unless you count the earlier posts in this thread!)
(The lack of pee is how I know I haven't seen too much torque yet!
)For curiousity, I'll see what Superior says. OTOH, I'm fairly sure I already have some 85W140 in the garage (left over from the Jeep). Moreover, it'd be the ONLY weight I have on hand. (Kinda why I asked about putting it in the Isuzu.)
IIRC, it's Lucas brand. Gotta anything against Lucas diff lubes? I know people bash the stabilizers that may cause foaming. Never tried them as such, but it seems like [other] Lucas products come up pretty often in racing circles.
I also use Lucas PS pump stabilizer. Its stopped my whine. (Unless you count the earlier posts in this thread!
)Lucas is OK.
Use the additive if you want to.
I don't use it.
I trust the additive packages in premium engine oils & gear oils as is.
GM E.O.S. - Engine oil Supplement was great stuff when it was still available from your local GM Dealership.
Its gone now.
Was full of ZDPP per ounce.
Nothing scares me much either Greg.
But I was wrong last night...........US Budget shortfalls are far from being resolved before Tuesday Aug 02, 2011.
Yahoo news is crap...............LOL
You can believe that they are going to TAX every man, woman, & child even more so to make up the difference.
And major cuts are going to be made across the board.
We will see what states get what $$ from now on soon.
The chi town communist hitler leading us all forgot about Illinois.
Trust me on that.
Likely to get worse before it gets better.
That scares me.
Brian
Last edited by 87 vette 81 big girl; Jul 31, 2011 at 09:52 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Lucas is OK.
Use the additive if you want to.
I don't use it.
I trust the additive packages in premium engine oils & gear oils as is.
GM E.O.S. - Engine oil Supplement was great stuff when it was still available from your local GM Dealership.
Its gone now.
Was full of ZDPP per ounce.
Use the additive if you want to.
I don't use it.
I trust the additive packages in premium engine oils & gear oils as is.
GM E.O.S. - Engine oil Supplement was great stuff when it was still available from your local GM Dealership.
Its gone now.
Was full of ZDPP per ounce.
My Lucas gear oil is not an additive. It's gear oil. (This isn't the same as that additive chit for motors. Lucas makes several products.)
I bought a small bottle of "pure" ZDDP (zinc) for my break-in run. Seems like it was about 5oz for about $7. Maybe a bottle of that should go in the Dana? If you're SURE ZDDP was originally part of the GM additive, I gotta consider (and submit) that idea for others. (OTOH, it's probably not necessary if applied at least once (in 1989 & 1999). Following with a synthetic, the coating should still be there.)
FYI: This ZDDP additive is specifically designed as a break-in additive for people building new engines.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Man...Don't EVEN get me started on this polical B.S.!!!
My Lucas gear oil is not an additive. It's gear oil. (This isn't the same as that additive chit for motors. Lucas makes several products.)
I bought a small bottle of "pure" ZDDP (zinc) for my break-in run. Seems like it was about 5oz for about $7. Maybe a bottle of that should go in the Dana? If you're SURE ZDDP was originally part of the GM additive, I gotta consider (and submit) that idea for others. (OTOH, it's probably not necessary if applied at least once (in 1989 & 1999). Following with a synthetic, the coating should still be there.)
FYI: This ZDDP additive is specifically designed as a break-in additive for people building new engines.
My Lucas gear oil is not an additive. It's gear oil. (This isn't the same as that additive chit for motors. Lucas makes several products.)
I bought a small bottle of "pure" ZDDP (zinc) for my break-in run. Seems like it was about 5oz for about $7. Maybe a bottle of that should go in the Dana? If you're SURE ZDDP was originally part of the GM additive, I gotta consider (and submit) that idea for others. (OTOH, it's probably not necessary if applied at least once (in 1989 & 1999). Following with a synthetic, the coating should still be there.)
FYI: This ZDDP additive is specifically designed as a break-in additive for people building new engines.
Going ahead & use it if want to.
It has been race tested & street driven on for millions of highway miles.
I have been using Royal Purple Gear Oil since 1994.
Long before it was mainstream with hotrodders, racers, & Corvette owners.
So I am loyal to there gear oils & other products.
I am not sure about adding ZDDP to gear oils yourself.
The original GM Limited slip additive was made from Sperm whale oil concentrate.
It came in a clear bottle with red stenciled on labeling.
I think it was the best ever additive for GM Posi-traction / Limited Slip differentials such as used in our C4 Corvettes.
Its around that original formulation but very difficult to track down.
You may Find it somewhere put away by someone.
The modern GM Formulation of GM Limited Slip additive is a synthetic formulation.
Comes in a black bottle.
I have used both with "0" problems.
I would use the Original Formulation GM Limited slip additive myself if I could find it easily yet.
Brian
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Based on the price of the Royal Purple stuff, maybe it's got some of that Sperm whale oil in it too!
Maybe we should check Washington? I bet they have a lot of it over there!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Well, if it came from Sperm whale oil, I can understand why it's discontinued. Just imagine how much trouble it is to make a Sperm whale happy!
Based on the price of the Royal Purple stuff, maybe it's got some of that Sperm whale oil in it too!
Maybe we should check Washington? I bet they have a lot of it over there!
Based on the price of the Royal Purple stuff, maybe it's got some of that Sperm whale oil in it too!
Maybe we should check Washington? I bet they have a lot of it over there!
Shop around for it carefully.
Sometimes I find the 75-90W or 85-140W for $8.50 per quart instead of $18.99 per quart.
You need to buy 3 quarts for your C4 Dana 44.
You will use around 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 quarts.
Have some left over.
Add the GM limited slip additive 1st.
What they are doing in Washington right now ?
Who knows.
They are Jerking everyone off these days...................
Brian
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
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From: Suwanee,Ga
[QUOTE=GREGGPENN;1578283259]Hmmm....I can't decide if you think my heavily modified SLP is really equivalent to an HSR. If so, you're dead wrong. My setup doesn't even have the top-end breathing of a superram -- which is less than a HSR or MR.
Surprised your breathing is still restricted with all that length removed???
But Yes I do [ did? ] think the runner lengths where more LT4 ish?
I have way better breathing and we have the same [ sort of ] intakes?
Seat of the pants, but it does not flatten out like it did with the stock runners at 4500. It pulls past 5500 and I STOP. I don't trust the bottom end much past that?
Ran great the one time I had it at the track. Kept right up with the stock C5????
Could be driver's though???????????
Surprised your breathing is still restricted with all that length removed???
But Yes I do [ did? ] think the runner lengths where more LT4 ish?
I have way better breathing and we have the same [ sort of ] intakes?
Seat of the pants, but it does not flatten out like it did with the stock runners at 4500. It pulls past 5500 and I STOP. I don't trust the bottom end much past that?
Ran great the one time I had it at the track. Kept right up with the stock C5????
Could be driver's though???????????
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Well Tom, I can't remember if you're running a cam or just the Tri-Y headers on a stock motor. If so, I would think a C5 would still have a little more zip than a SLP/Tri-Y/L98 combo. But, as you mentioned, drivers (and a willness to "risk" their ride) could have an affect at the autocross track. Also, maybe you did more siamesing that I did?????
That said, it would be interesting to see/feel my modified SLP intake on a "stock/headered" 350 car. It would probably be more as you describe since I'd guess mine breathes about 25% better than the factory tubes. That's similar to a CAST superram. But my tubes are still a bit longer. Many people running a superram port it. If ported as heavily as my SLP, they'd get at least 30cfm on top of that. And, short-runner intakes are in the 300cfm range.
Since a FIRST intake can easily hit 300cfm, that's why it's so impressive for torque (and HP) builders. It's tubes are gi-frigging-normous. It's the level of breathing I could use on my 383.
That said, it would be interesting to see/feel my modified SLP intake on a "stock/headered" 350 car. It would probably be more as you describe since I'd guess mine breathes about 25% better than the factory tubes. That's similar to a CAST superram. But my tubes are still a bit longer. Many people running a superram port it. If ported as heavily as my SLP, they'd get at least 30cfm on top of that. And, short-runner intakes are in the 300cfm range.
Since a FIRST intake can easily hit 300cfm, that's why it's so impressive for torque (and HP) builders. It's tubes are gi-frigging-normous. It's the level of breathing I could use on my 383.
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Aug 1, 2011 at 11:16 AM.
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Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
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From: Suwanee,Ga
Well Tom, I can't remember if you're running a cam or just the Tri-Y headers on a stock motor. If so, I would think a C5 would still have a little more zip than a SLP/Tri-Y/L98 combo. But, as you mentioned, drivers (and a willness to "risk" their ride) could have an affect at the autocross track. Also, maybe you did more siamesing that I did?????
That said, it would be interesting to see/feel my modified SLP intake on a "stock/headered" 350 car. It would probably be more as you describe since I'd guess mine breathes about 25% better than the factory tubes. That's similar to a CAST superram. But my tubes are still a bit longer. Many people running a superram port it. If ported as heavily as my SLP, they'd get at least 30cfm on top of that. And, short-runner intakes are in the 300cfm range.
Since a FIRST intake can easily hit 300cfm, that's why it's so impressive for torque (and HP) builders. It's tubes are gi-frigging-normous. It's the level of breathing I could use on my 383.
That said, it would be interesting to see/feel my modified SLP intake on a "stock/headered" 350 car. It would probably be more as you describe since I'd guess mine breathes about 25% better than the factory tubes. That's similar to a CAST superram. But my tubes are still a bit longer. Many people running a superram port it. If ported as heavily as my SLP, they'd get at least 30cfm on top of that. And, short-runner intakes are in the 300cfm range.
Since a FIRST intake can easily hit 300cfm, that's why it's so impressive for torque (and HP) builders. It's tubes are gi-frigging-normous. It's the level of breathing I could use on my 383.
The fact is that mine stopped being a L98 when the parts started changing. Like all SBC it is pretty responsive to changes. Headers Intake tune, ect,
All add up, granted it's hard to get a practical calculator for it all.
Well, the good thing is that if you do go with a Holley there may be a used one to try? Always lots of parts floating around! And nothing succeeds like a Try?
Keep us posted
Last edited by TJM; Aug 2, 2011 at 01:43 PM.
Team Owner
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
This thread entertains me! Does anyone know that hp is simply a calculation combining torque & rpm? Saying one is better than the other is pure masturbation.
Lastly - my 415 LT5 holds over 480 rwtq from 3000-6000 rpm, with peak rwhp @ 7500 rpm. THAT is area under the curve baby!!! Mph in the quarter? 132.
Lastly - my 415 LT5 holds over 480 rwtq from 3000-6000 rpm, with peak rwhp @ 7500 rpm. THAT is area under the curve baby!!! Mph in the quarter? 132.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 658
Likes: 7
From: Perth Amboy New Jersey
This thread entertains me! Does anyone know that hp is simply a calculation combining torque & rpm? Saying one is better than the other is pure masturbation.
Lastly - my 415 LT5 holds over 480 rwtq from 3000-6000 rpm, with peak rwhp @ 7500 rpm. THAT is area under the curve baby!!! Mph in the quarter? 132.
Lastly - my 415 LT5 holds over 480 rwtq from 3000-6000 rpm, with peak rwhp @ 7500 rpm. THAT is area under the curve baby!!! Mph in the quarter? 132.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
If you ACTUALLY READ the thread, you'd know it wasn't about bragging rights or masturbation BOTH of which you seem to be doing well at.
Go grab your shifter.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,049
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Thanks captain obvious - it is also a completely different engine configuration - the point is that torque that spans across into the high rpms makes lots of hp, & makes for a fast car. He needs to shift his torque curve to the right.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,049
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Get your 'shifter' outta your wife's purse!
Race Director
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From: WI
That would make the car faster but he wants torque monster feel. A feeling not results.
The topic hp vs torque has been beaten to death for a long time.
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
The topic hp vs torque has been beaten to death for a long time.
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
Safety Car
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,659
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From: Toronto ontario
here's a friends dynograph..
Thread Starter
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From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Let me break this down for the simple-minded...
This thread is about what levels torque becomes a hinderance...you know too much for the car or for the conditions. It's about when loading up low-end-torque (for a street application) should be shifted for high-end-torque (horsepower).
Some simple-minded people will always choose HP even if they make 200ft/lbs at 2500rpms JUST so they can get 350hp at 6500rpms. That's an extreme THEORETICAL example to clarify my point.
In my case, I shot for developing torque in the lowest rpms possible. I have valid reasons as posted in this thread. Some of them don't even include the power itself.
When people come out bragging about 500+ HP applications and snub meaningful discussion about mechanical tuning for their needs, it's shows their idiocy. Personally, I could care less about track car, racers, or 1000hp. That's not my deal. Many people have that for a profession or hobby. Others have it because their self-esteem is so low that they feel compelled to brag about the power of their car. I can usually spot those people by their propensity for putting others down.
This thread is about what levels torque becomes a hinderance...you know too much for the car or for the conditions. It's about when loading up low-end-torque (for a street application) should be shifted for high-end-torque (horsepower).
Some simple-minded people will always choose HP even if they make 200ft/lbs at 2500rpms JUST so they can get 350hp at 6500rpms. That's an extreme THEORETICAL example to clarify my point.
In my case, I shot for developing torque in the lowest rpms possible. I have valid reasons as posted in this thread. Some of them don't even include the power itself.
When people come out bragging about 500+ HP applications and snub meaningful discussion about mechanical tuning for their needs, it's shows their idiocy. Personally, I could care less about track car, racers, or 1000hp. That's not my deal. Many people have that for a profession or hobby. Others have it because their self-esteem is so low that they feel compelled to brag about the power of their car. I can usually spot those people by their propensity for putting others down.
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Aug 4, 2011 at 05:44 PM.
:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Let me break this down for the simple-minded...
This thread is about what levels torque becomes a hinderance...you know too much for the car or for the conditions. It's about when loading up low-end-torque (for a street application) should be shifted for high-end-torque (horsepower).
Some simple-minded people will always choose HP even if they make 200ft/lbs at 2500rpms JUST so they can get 350hp at 6500rpms. That's an extreme THEORETICAL example to clarify my point.
In my case, I shot for developing torque in the lowest rpms possible. I have valid reasons as posted in this thread. Some of them don't even include the power itself.
When people come out bragging about 500+ HP applications and snub meaningful discussion about mechanical tuning for their needs, it's shows their idiocy. Personally, I could care less about track car, racers, or 1000hp. That's not my deal. Many people have that for a profession or hobby. Others have it because their self-esteem is so low that they feel compelled to brag about the power of their car. I can usually spot those people by their propensity for putting others down.
This thread is about what levels torque becomes a hinderance...you know too much for the car or for the conditions. It's about when loading up low-end-torque (for a street application) should be shifted for high-end-torque (horsepower).
Some simple-minded people will always choose HP even if they make 200ft/lbs at 2500rpms JUST so they can get 350hp at 6500rpms. That's an extreme THEORETICAL example to clarify my point.
In my case, I shot for developing torque in the lowest rpms possible. I have valid reasons as posted in this thread. Some of them don't even include the power itself.
When people come out bragging about 500+ HP applications and snub meaningful discussion about mechanical tuning for their needs, it's shows their idiocy. Personally, I could care less about track car, racers, or 1000hp. That's not my deal. Many people have that for a profession or hobby. Others have it because their self-esteem is so low that they feel compelled to brag about the power of their car. I can usually spot those people by their propensity for putting others down.
Ah Chit.............let it go............. again.
You are on the verge of snapping off the rear wheel studs,
especially if you let me drive........
You would want to Kill me afterwards.........LOL
I would like a ride in your 1989 600+ ft/lb normally aspirated 383 ci little monster.
You have to shoot me up to 140 mph + or I will be disappointed.
Life starts at 140 in a fast street driven Vette.
Brian