C4 Corvette Headlight Options! A must read for C4 drivers.
04-20-2011, 10:22 PM
#21
Race Director
Thread Starter
I'd say 99% of the modifications done on this site aren't exactly what one would consider legal, especially when somewhere like California is involved. So we can safely say, whatever you wish to do, do so at your own risk.
As far as the glare is concerned, this is what I know:
1. The headlight housing itself could care less if your light source is a match, or an HID. The light will reflect off the housing the same way regardless of intensity.
2. Close inspection of a 9003/H4 bulb shows that the low beam element is shielded so as to prevent light from hitting the bottom of the reflector. The high beam element is further back, and unshielded. A properly shielded HID bulb accomplishes the exact same thing, but rather than having two elements, the bulb moves and uncovers the shield.
3. Combine 1 and 2 and you have the idea that the only fundamental difference between the HID setup and a traditional Halogen setup is the brightness. Logic then dictates that if HID's cause excessive glare to oncoming traffic, so too would the Halogens if they were a higher wattage. This does not mean that the HID's are at fault, it means the reflector / lens / beam pattern is at fault.
4. Since we have clearly established that the beam pattern is at fault, we must do something about it. The Europeans figured it out MANY years ago. Americans are only just figuring it out with projector beams. The principle is exactly the same, put the light where you need it instead of scattering it, thus eliminating the need to compromise on light output.
Now, with all that being said, are my HID lights installed in e-spec housings as good as a set of projectors? No, never claimed that they were. What I did claim was that the e-spec housing controls light well enough that you can run HID's (good, properly shielded ones) in them without blinding oncoming traffic or attracting unnecessary attention.
Your mileage may vary. Where I live, every 3rd car has mis-aligned headlights anyway which are way worse than a set of properly aligned HID's.
As far as the glare is concerned, this is what I know:
1. The headlight housing itself could care less if your light source is a match, or an HID. The light will reflect off the housing the same way regardless of intensity.
2. Close inspection of a 9003/H4 bulb shows that the low beam element is shielded so as to prevent light from hitting the bottom of the reflector. The high beam element is further back, and unshielded. A properly shielded HID bulb accomplishes the exact same thing, but rather than having two elements, the bulb moves and uncovers the shield.
3. Combine 1 and 2 and you have the idea that the only fundamental difference between the HID setup and a traditional Halogen setup is the brightness. Logic then dictates that if HID's cause excessive glare to oncoming traffic, so too would the Halogens if they were a higher wattage. This does not mean that the HID's are at fault, it means the reflector / lens / beam pattern is at fault.
4. Since we have clearly established that the beam pattern is at fault, we must do something about it. The Europeans figured it out MANY years ago. Americans are only just figuring it out with projector beams. The principle is exactly the same, put the light where you need it instead of scattering it, thus eliminating the need to compromise on light output.
Now, with all that being said, are my HID lights installed in e-spec housings as good as a set of projectors? No, never claimed that they were. What I did claim was that the e-spec housing controls light well enough that you can run HID's (good, properly shielded ones) in them without blinding oncoming traffic or attracting unnecessary attention.
Your mileage may vary. Where I live, every 3rd car has mis-aligned headlights anyway which are way worse than a set of properly aligned HID's.
04-28-2011, 02:22 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
Just understand a crimped connection is a longer lasting connection. Wire wicks up solder, and where the solder starts on the wire, it can flex enough to make it crack. Crimp is by far the best (unless it is a circuit board, etc.) and we all know about poor solder joints on circuit boards, relays, etc.
Last edited by coupeguy2001; 04-28-2011 at 02:24 AM.
04-28-2011, 07:31 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Morgan Hill and Marina California
Posts: 1,021
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A good solder joint will be covered with heat-shrink as
a strain-relief. And there are a lot of crappy crimps
around, including just about anything you buy at the
auto parts or HW store.
a strain-relief. And there are a lot of crappy crimps
around, including just about anything you buy at the
auto parts or HW store.
05-02-2011, 07:42 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
DOT approved housings are available (and about half the price) of Euro housings. Just to keep it legal, I am thinking about ordering some of these and installing some 9003 bulbs.
07-05-2011, 04:18 PM
#26
Advanced
07-05-2011, 04:26 PM
#27
Drifting
Why does this thread go about 3 feet to the right of my screen. I have to scroll over twice just to read a line? My monitor would have to be 6 feet wide just to read a line. Am I doing something wrong just on this one thread? Confused
Just page #1 also.
Just page #1 also.
Last edited by 1963SS; 07-05-2011 at 04:29 PM.
09-13-2011, 02:56 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Morgan Hill and Marina California
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I'm about to install Hella 003427811 in my '87. For the record, that
part number has two lamp housings, two 60/55 bulbs, and two rubber
boots.
Some place I saw where somebody said 15 minutes. It looks to me
like you have to take the whole assembly off the hood (six nuts/bolts),
then take off the bezel (the colored part that shows when the lights are up)
(four screws), then replace the lamp housing and reassemble. Right?
That sounds more like 30 minutes.
I'll post pix.
Chuck
part number has two lamp housings, two 60/55 bulbs, and two rubber
boots.
Some place I saw where somebody said 15 minutes. It looks to me
like you have to take the whole assembly off the hood (six nuts/bolts),
then take off the bezel (the colored part that shows when the lights are up)
(four screws), then replace the lamp housing and reassemble. Right?
That sounds more like 30 minutes.
I'll post pix.
Chuck
Last edited by Chuck Tribolet; 09-13-2011 at 02:59 PM.
09-14-2011, 12:30 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Morgan Hill and Marina California
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Yup, definitely more than 15 minutes. It took 40 minutes to get the
assembly more or less out. And about 15 more minutes to get loose the
four screws that clamp the chrome ring (I had to grab the foot (other end
from the head) with a small ViseGrip to get things loose No way was a
Phillips Head screwdriver going to bust that loose).
Current state is the that the spring that hold the light in place has flown
off somewhere, I've spent about 20 minutes trying to find it. I'll look
some more tomorrow.
assembly more or less out. And about 15 more minutes to get loose the
four screws that clamp the chrome ring (I had to grab the foot (other end
from the head) with a small ViseGrip to get things loose No way was a
Phillips Head screwdriver going to bust that loose).
Current state is the that the spring that hold the light in place has flown
off somewhere, I've spent about 20 minutes trying to find it. I'll look
some more tomorrow.
09-14-2011, 07:18 PM
#31
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
This thread is AWESOME. Props to the OP for a fantastic write up. 
11-19-2011, 08:05 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Dec 2008
Location: Morgan Hill and Marina California
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I went through this upgrade recently and made a lot of notes:
Time: the first one took about four hours, but I tend to
go real slow and be real careful around the paint work.
Tools:
Medium-sized flat-blade screwdriver
Big pair of needle-nose pliers.
Two towels.
3/8 ratchet
13mm deep six-point 3/8 socket
10mm deep six-point 3/8 socket
Torx T20 driver
Torx T10 driver
#2 Phillips head screwdriver. Don't use an old beat-up one.
3" vise grips
Cotter pin remover (optional)
White lithiun Grease (optional)
24" of 1/8" parachute cord (optional)
I like deep sockets for this small stuff because you can
take them off the ratchet and use them as a nut driver. I
like six-point sockets for everything because they tear up
the nuts and bolt heads less than 12-point.
When I talk about front and rear I mean front and rear if the
hood were down.
When I talk about fastener size, I mean the size of the wrench
you use, which is what you care about, not the diameter of the
fastener itself.
Inside means closer to the centerline of the car. Outside
means the other way,
Start with the headlights down.
Raise the hood.
Unplug the underhood lights, or switch them off if you have
installed a switch for them.
There are two electrical cables running from the headlight
assembly through a circular retaining ring. Use a
medium-sized flat-blade screwdrive to pop the retaining ring
open.
Disconnect the two electrical connectors from below the
outside of the head light. The headlight side of these
connectors is attached to the frame with a plastic barb.
Curse the GM engineer who made this decision. It would be a
lot easier if the chassis side of the connector were
attached to the frame. I basically pulled the barb through
with the big needle-nose pliers which tore up the barb. The
NCRS types would do something else but I haven't the
foggiest what it is. The passengers side was easier than
the driver's side where there's a spherical (vaccuum?) tank
in the way.
Put a towel under the head light. One about the size of a
gym towel is about right. It will protect the paint on the
headlight and maybe catch any hardware you drop.
Have another towel or piece of carpet beside the car to lay
headlight assembly on when you get it out.
There are seven fasteners that need to be removed. Locate them
but don't start turning wrenches just yet.
- There are two screws with 10mm heads at the front of the
frame around the light.
- There are four 10mm nuts, two on each side of the light.
- The 10mm nut at the front inside also secures an angle
bracket. The other part of the angle bracket is secured
by a carriage bolt and a 13mm nut on the inside.
First remove the 13mm nut and the carriage bolt. Make sure the
towel is under that area as the carriage bolt is a little fiddely
especially if you have big fingers and you might drop it.
Now remove the two 10mm screws.
Now loosen the four 10mm nuts most of the way, until the stud
is just ready to start disappearing into the nut.
Now remove the two front nuts. The one at the angle bracket will
be a bit fiddelly.
Now remove the two rear nuts. Support the light assembly with your
free hand while you do this. Give some consideration to which nut
you want to do last.
The headlight assembly will now come out. Lay it on the second
towel. We are going to remove the fibre glass that's visible when
the lights are on.
Turn the white **** until the two Torx T20 screws that are hiding behind the
frame and motor are accessable. Remove these two screws.
Remove the two Torx T10 screws right by the headlight and remove
the fiberglass part.
Remove the four #2 Philips head screws that hold the chrome bezel around
the headlight. These were pretty badly frozen, and I had to grab the
tip portion with a tiny pair of vise grips to break them loose.
Now you can remove the headlight.
If you are a glutton for punishment, you can remove the spring that holds
the headlight bucket in place and put some white lithium grease on where
it contacts the frame. To put the spring back, I used a loop of 1/8"
parachute cord. When I tried it with a cotter pin puller like the FSM
says, the spring flew off and it took two beers to find it. It ended up
perched on top of something, not down low.
When you reassemble the head light, if the new light has rubber around
the electrical pins, note that you need to push the rubber ALL the way
down so ALL of the pins show.
Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly.
When you reassemble angle bracket, tighten the 10mm nut only finger tight.
Then tighten the 13mm nut finger tight. Then tighten each one a little
bit at a time (1/8 turns) alternating between the two nuts. Make sure
the square part of the carriage bolt fits in its square hole.
Be sure to align your lights when done.
Time: the first one took about four hours, but I tend to
go real slow and be real careful around the paint work.
Tools:
Medium-sized flat-blade screwdriver
Big pair of needle-nose pliers.
Two towels.
3/8 ratchet
13mm deep six-point 3/8 socket
10mm deep six-point 3/8 socket
Torx T20 driver
Torx T10 driver
#2 Phillips head screwdriver. Don't use an old beat-up one.
3" vise grips
Cotter pin remover (optional)
White lithiun Grease (optional)
24" of 1/8" parachute cord (optional)
I like deep sockets for this small stuff because you can
take them off the ratchet and use them as a nut driver. I
like six-point sockets for everything because they tear up
the nuts and bolt heads less than 12-point.
When I talk about front and rear I mean front and rear if the
hood were down.
When I talk about fastener size, I mean the size of the wrench
you use, which is what you care about, not the diameter of the
fastener itself.
Inside means closer to the centerline of the car. Outside
means the other way,
Start with the headlights down.
Raise the hood.
Unplug the underhood lights, or switch them off if you have
installed a switch for them.
There are two electrical cables running from the headlight
assembly through a circular retaining ring. Use a
medium-sized flat-blade screwdrive to pop the retaining ring
open.
Disconnect the two electrical connectors from below the
outside of the head light. The headlight side of these
connectors is attached to the frame with a plastic barb.
Curse the GM engineer who made this decision. It would be a
lot easier if the chassis side of the connector were
attached to the frame. I basically pulled the barb through
with the big needle-nose pliers which tore up the barb. The
NCRS types would do something else but I haven't the
foggiest what it is. The passengers side was easier than
the driver's side where there's a spherical (vaccuum?) tank
in the way.
Put a towel under the head light. One about the size of a
gym towel is about right. It will protect the paint on the
headlight and maybe catch any hardware you drop.
Have another towel or piece of carpet beside the car to lay
headlight assembly on when you get it out.
There are seven fasteners that need to be removed. Locate them
but don't start turning wrenches just yet.
- There are two screws with 10mm heads at the front of the
frame around the light.
- There are four 10mm nuts, two on each side of the light.
- The 10mm nut at the front inside also secures an angle
bracket. The other part of the angle bracket is secured
by a carriage bolt and a 13mm nut on the inside.
First remove the 13mm nut and the carriage bolt. Make sure the
towel is under that area as the carriage bolt is a little fiddely
especially if you have big fingers and you might drop it.
Now remove the two 10mm screws.
Now loosen the four 10mm nuts most of the way, until the stud
is just ready to start disappearing into the nut.
Now remove the two front nuts. The one at the angle bracket will
be a bit fiddelly.
Now remove the two rear nuts. Support the light assembly with your
free hand while you do this. Give some consideration to which nut
you want to do last.
The headlight assembly will now come out. Lay it on the second
towel. We are going to remove the fibre glass that's visible when
the lights are on.
Turn the white **** until the two Torx T20 screws that are hiding behind the
frame and motor are accessable. Remove these two screws.
Remove the two Torx T10 screws right by the headlight and remove
the fiberglass part.
Remove the four #2 Philips head screws that hold the chrome bezel around
the headlight. These were pretty badly frozen, and I had to grab the
tip portion with a tiny pair of vise grips to break them loose.
Now you can remove the headlight.
If you are a glutton for punishment, you can remove the spring that holds
the headlight bucket in place and put some white lithium grease on where
it contacts the frame. To put the spring back, I used a loop of 1/8"
parachute cord. When I tried it with a cotter pin puller like the FSM
says, the spring flew off and it took two beers to find it. It ended up
perched on top of something, not down low.
When you reassemble the head light, if the new light has rubber around
the electrical pins, note that you need to push the rubber ALL the way
down so ALL of the pins show.
Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly.
When you reassemble angle bracket, tighten the 10mm nut only finger tight.
Then tighten the 13mm nut finger tight. Then tighten each one a little
bit at a time (1/8 turns) alternating between the two nuts. Make sure
the square part of the carriage bolt fits in its square hole.
Be sure to align your lights when done.
[/IMG]
01-27-2014, 07:53 PM
#37
Ciebe lamp housings and relays will let you use high watt H4 bulbs.
Where the bulb sits in the lamp is a major design factor on the light beam.
I've had 130/100w bulbs when I drove long distances at night. Properly aimed they put out major light on the road; not up in other drivers eyes.
From what I've read, no experience, the Hella housings won't aim the high and low beams correctly, you get one right and the other one is off.
Only drawback to high watt H4 bulbs; they don't last forever. I got about 18months out of the 130/100 Narva bulbs. I've got some cheap china sourced phillips bulbs with 85w low beams. They've been in about 2 years now. I only have about a 30minute drive to work now.
Why spend the extra effort on HID when a bulb designed for the housing is excellent?
One last thing. Relays will make more light with any bulb. Check the voltage drop through the wiring. Meter between battery pos. and headlight pos. will show the wiring drop. I had over .5vdc Full voltage to the bulb will make over 10% more light with relays alone.
Overwatt bulbs will smoke the wiring out of the dimmer and headlight switch wiring and blow fuses.
Anything is better than the seal beam 6054 bulbs.
JS
Where the bulb sits in the lamp is a major design factor on the light beam.
I've had 130/100w bulbs when I drove long distances at night. Properly aimed they put out major light on the road; not up in other drivers eyes.
From what I've read, no experience, the Hella housings won't aim the high and low beams correctly, you get one right and the other one is off.
Only drawback to high watt H4 bulbs; they don't last forever. I got about 18months out of the 130/100 Narva bulbs. I've got some cheap china sourced phillips bulbs with 85w low beams. They've been in about 2 years now. I only have about a 30minute drive to work now.
Why spend the extra effort on HID when a bulb designed for the housing is excellent?
One last thing. Relays will make more light with any bulb. Check the voltage drop through the wiring. Meter between battery pos. and headlight pos. will show the wiring drop. I had over .5vdc Full voltage to the bulb will make over 10% more light with relays alone.
Overwatt bulbs will smoke the wiring out of the dimmer and headlight switch wiring and blow fuses.
Anything is better than the seal beam 6054 bulbs.
JS
01-28-2014, 03:40 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
When my car was new, the halogen headlights were REAL bright, versus past options. They still are, save for thosewho feel more manly, or something, with 'blinders'.
I have 2 other cars with projector lights and absolutely hate them in oncoming cars; then, I recall when safety inspections checked for properly aligned lights, etc. The Beemer aims them with each start-up, but I know uphills and even many off-center light are blinding.
I admit having concerns about the ensuing install of C6 lights in my Shinoda, but they will be aimed properly to mitigate blinding.
My foglight upgrade was simple. Higher wattage 55W, I think, 'cause the stock was lower. then; rarely used... being FOG lights vs driving lights..
I have 2 other cars with projector lights and absolutely hate them in oncoming cars; then, I recall when safety inspections checked for properly aligned lights, etc. The Beemer aims them with each start-up, but I know uphills and even many off-center light are blinding.
I admit having concerns about the ensuing install of C6 lights in my Shinoda, but they will be aimed properly to mitigate blinding.
My foglight upgrade was simple. Higher wattage 55W, I think, 'cause the stock was lower. then; rarely used... being FOG lights vs driving lights..
Last edited by whalepirot; 01-28-2014 at 03:42 PM.
01-28-2014, 11:41 PM
#39
Pro
Look Ma, my first post!
I don't own a Corvette yet, I signed up awhile back and have been lurking, doing research on the different generations to determine what I want to eventually get. Came across this thread and thought I'd suggest a lighting solution that I didn't find mentioned when I searched.
This is going to sound kind of strange but go to the 4wd.com site and check these out: http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Lighting-Jee..._pn=POI27450CK
I have a 97 Jeep Wrangler with the round version of these and absolutely love them. They're LED so they have a nice bright white light, and they have a very low power draw so there's no need to upgrade wiring like you'd need to do in order to run the high wattage standard bulbs.
I'm just curious if anyone has ever tried these in a C4. If I should end up getting a C4 I know these will be high on my list of immediate upgrades.
I don't own a Corvette yet, I signed up awhile back and have been lurking, doing research on the different generations to determine what I want to eventually get. Came across this thread and thought I'd suggest a lighting solution that I didn't find mentioned when I searched.
This is going to sound kind of strange but go to the 4wd.com site and check these out: http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Lighting-Jee..._pn=POI27450CK
I have a 97 Jeep Wrangler with the round version of these and absolutely love them. They're LED so they have a nice bright white light, and they have a very low power draw so there's no need to upgrade wiring like you'd need to do in order to run the high wattage standard bulbs.
I'm just curious if anyone has ever tried these in a C4. If I should end up getting a C4 I know these will be high on my list of immediate upgrades.
01-29-2014, 01:50 AM
#40
Instructor
On the other end of the price spectrum, there are these for $20 each with a 55/60W bulb:
NeoLite 200mm Rectangular H4 Headlamp Conversion - "E" Code with Bulb Shield
They claim to have the e-code light pattern. If they do, it's a great value. I found a 2009 user review of sorts on a Jeep site, the user liked them.
They also sell a Hella housing with the 55/100W bulb for $51. It is not listed as being an e-code housing though.
I also found a US source for 5x7 Hella e-code housings for $49 (the same vendor also sells the "kit" with both lights for a little over $100). I can vouch for them, as I bought some Hella 7" housings for two of my bikes there.
Hella makes a sold on Amazon for about $10 each. Seems like a good idea, and most reviews are positive. Amazon also sells a Hella for about $36. This combo is cheaper than the one I listed above.
I'm a fan of better road lighting and like the sharp cutoff pattern the Hella housings give me on my bikes. I'm looking forward to improving my C4's lights as well.
NeoLite 200mm Rectangular H4 Headlamp Conversion - "E" Code with Bulb Shield
They claim to have the e-code light pattern. If they do, it's a great value. I found a 2009 user review of sorts on a Jeep site, the user liked them.
They also sell a Hella housing with the 55/100W bulb for $51. It is not listed as being an e-code housing though.
I also found a US source for 5x7 Hella e-code housings for $49 (the same vendor also sells the "kit" with both lights for a little over $100). I can vouch for them, as I bought some Hella 7" housings for two of my bikes there.
Hella makes a sold on Amazon for about $10 each. Seems like a good idea, and most reviews are positive. Amazon also sells a Hella for about $36. This combo is cheaper than the one I listed above.
I'm a fan of better road lighting and like the sharp cutoff pattern the Hella housings give me on my bikes. I'm looking forward to improving my C4's lights as well.
Last edited by C5_Shopper; 01-29-2014 at 08:21 AM.