Budget 2-row radiator comparison
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Yessir... 
I was reluctant initially, being suspicious of a "good deal" but went ahead and am very glad that I did.
I have absolutely nothing against the other brands mentioned here, and might even lean toward one of those if I were absolutely obsessed with the idea that paying more means getting more...I do not suscribe to that theory. I have a buddy that thinks like that and his Wilwood brakes (6 piston caliper, yeah) on a plain-Jane Mustang convert pretty much explain everything......(can't begin to tell me what he'll do when he needs pads or other service). Waste of money.
If I had a $25000 build then I might be more inclined to look for the absolute best available, maybe even have it fabricated like many custom builders will do. But IMHO the typical street car like most that are here, will survive with the less expensive unit and allow the owner to use the cash difference to enhance his ride in some other way. Again, lower cost does not equate to lower quality. Poor quality seems to always cost less, but its not always the other way around.
One other note worth mentioning, the idea that lower cost products always come from China is absurd. Thats a myth. The ECP unit that I bought had a tag that indicated that it was mfg'd in Chicago Ill and the new condensor
($75 +shipping) was made in Michigan (purchased thru different seller).
The last Delco ign module I bought had a tag in spanish...made in Mexico.
THAT was depressing....Our beloved Corvette braking systems (PBR) come from an Australian company...The car is already outsourced, so even IF China made most replacement parts, its a little late to start complaining about that..
The distributer (ECP) for these radiators may have multiple vendors or sources...I dunno.
All I DO know is that mine was a locally made
product that fit exactly as they described and it was actually less hassle than described to fit the blocks to the bottom of the radiator. Hardest part was getting the nipples back in the small holes in the shroud....A great result for a days work to disassemble the shroud system, clean, install radiator, change all hoses, new condensor, steam clean and reassemble.
I'm satisfied.
I was reluctant initially, being suspicious of a "good deal" but went ahead and am very glad that I did.
I have absolutely nothing against the other brands mentioned here, and might even lean toward one of those if I were absolutely obsessed with the idea that paying more means getting more...I do not suscribe to that theory. I have a buddy that thinks like that and his Wilwood brakes (6 piston caliper, yeah) on a plain-Jane Mustang convert pretty much explain everything......(can't begin to tell me what he'll do when he needs pads or other service). Waste of money.
If I had a $25000 build then I might be more inclined to look for the absolute best available, maybe even have it fabricated like many custom builders will do. But IMHO the typical street car like most that are here, will survive with the less expensive unit and allow the owner to use the cash difference to enhance his ride in some other way. Again, lower cost does not equate to lower quality. Poor quality seems to always cost less, but its not always the other way around.
One other note worth mentioning, the idea that lower cost products always come from China is absurd. Thats a myth. The ECP unit that I bought had a tag that indicated that it was mfg'd in Chicago Ill and the new condensor
($75 +shipping) was made in Michigan (purchased thru different seller).
The last Delco ign module I bought had a tag in spanish...made in Mexico.
THAT was depressing....Our beloved Corvette braking systems (PBR) come from an Australian company...The car is already outsourced, so even IF China made most replacement parts, its a little late to start complaining about that..The distributer (ECP) for these radiators may have multiple vendors or sources...I dunno.
All I DO know is that mine was a locally made
product that fit exactly as they described and it was actually less hassle than described to fit the blocks to the bottom of the radiator. Hardest part was getting the nipples back in the small holes in the shroud....A great result for a days work to disassemble the shroud system, clean, install radiator, change all hoses, new condensor, steam clean and reassemble. I'm satisfied.
The PBR brakes on my 87 Vert stop fast from 150MPH.
They build excellent parts in Australia.
GM made the right choice I believe in 1984 to 1996,
PBR.
Are you a professional mechanic like me ?
If you were, I think you would feel different toward China made parts.
Summit & local speed shop carry Wilwood brake pads.
All part #'s at my local speed shop her in IL.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Whatever the rating is what they flow......all the time!
Max cooling at idle and no wasted horsepower at higher than cruise rpms..
Why 30%????
Why did I say 30%? Because most high flow (belt driven) water pumps for SBC are advertised at 30% over OEM flow. When I called PRW, that's what they quoted on mine.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 27
From: Valparaiso
i have a nice edelbrock 8825 hi flow pump, the temps were noticeable lower
but i would like to replace it with a electric meziere pump for 15 horsepower.
I read that they are good for 3000 hours of use which i think its fine.
But i would be scared somehow what would happen if it fails out of the blue ???
For that reason ...now im sticking with the mechanical pump....mmmm
Interesting.
but i would like to replace it with a electric meziere pump for 15 horsepower.
I read that they are good for 3000 hours of use which i think its fine.
But i would be scared somehow what would happen if it fails out of the blue ???
For that reason ...now im sticking with the mechanical pump....mmmm
Interesting.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
When I asked the Engineered Cooling Products owner about the quality, price, and lack of contact phone number, here was his reply....
You completely misunderstood my point about pricing. It's about
expectation, a lot of which is based on price. When you spend $500 for a BeCool or DeWitts, you have an expectation that it's going to fit, work well and not fall apart in 3 weeks. When you spend $169, you have a different expectation unless you live in a land of rainbows and
unicorns.
When you have an outrageous HP cooling guarantee, a lifetime guarantee (that's really unrealistic if you read the fine print), a return-it-for-whatever reason if you're not happy with it guarantee (and we WILL charge you a restocking fee and not refund your shipping
charges - they just did this to a customer of mine) and your target customer has an unrealistic expectation. With that comes a lot of problematic customers that they can have. That's why ECP is not the lowest priced player in the game and have no intention of being one. I'm a straight shooter and not laying snake oil on to sell you
anything and can sleep at night knowing I represent my product without gimmicks.
I used to have my phone number in my listings, but 95% of the phone
calls I would get would be something to the effect of: "Would you take $90 for the radiator you have listed for $219? I'll tell all my friends about you." Again, that's not who I am catering to.
My website is sparsely functional since we are moving it to a faster
server and it's not functional at times. By next weekend it will be
fully functional again and reloaded with products and contact info. I've
been in business for 6 years at the same location.
I can do better on the price if customers are willing to buy direct
from my website. I can give you a coupon for the Corvette forums. I
can do $179 and flat rate $29 shipping.
Getting to the differences between our 829 model and the other 2-row units:
1) Mine is sexier looking. Rounded corners versus Chinese designed square. We design all of our radiators in house and don't farm it out to the Chinese. In the 84-90 case, not that it matters much since you can't see it once it's installed.
2) The hose connections on my unit are much longer. My picture shows
the old style, however the radiators are made now with longer hose
connections to clear the plastic housing with ease.
3) We use a plate cooler. They use a cheap concentric cooler. It may
not be a big deal to you, but it is to someone who is going to use the
transcooler.
4) We don't spray paint our radiators. It's more than for just a faux
aluminum look - it's because they do a crappy job leak testing their
radiators and the paint is actually a sealer to seal all of the leaks.
Take the paint off to polish it up and you'er going to have a
sprinkler under the hood.
After re-reading this tonight, I realize I misinterpreted more than one thing. Since they said they DESIGN radiators in-house and don't farm them out to the chinese, I assumed they farmed theirs out to some foreign country. He should have said they were made in America!!!
He was wrong about the spray paint (as I already noted). Mine wasn't sprayed.
If his sale picture is not current, I wonder how much more like the DeWitts his look? leesvet said his fit w/o modification. In leesvet thread, he said they look identical. In ECP's response, they say their radiators have round corners -- not like their old picture.
Maybe the ECP really is a great alternative and made in the USA???
Personally, I don't like a seller who doesn't provide contact information but he says he will in the future... I guess we'll see.
You completely misunderstood my point about pricing. It's about
expectation, a lot of which is based on price. When you spend $500 for a BeCool or DeWitts, you have an expectation that it's going to fit, work well and not fall apart in 3 weeks. When you spend $169, you have a different expectation unless you live in a land of rainbows and
unicorns.
When you have an outrageous HP cooling guarantee, a lifetime guarantee (that's really unrealistic if you read the fine print), a return-it-for-whatever reason if you're not happy with it guarantee (and we WILL charge you a restocking fee and not refund your shipping
charges - they just did this to a customer of mine) and your target customer has an unrealistic expectation. With that comes a lot of problematic customers that they can have. That's why ECP is not the lowest priced player in the game and have no intention of being one. I'm a straight shooter and not laying snake oil on to sell you
anything and can sleep at night knowing I represent my product without gimmicks.
I used to have my phone number in my listings, but 95% of the phone
calls I would get would be something to the effect of: "Would you take $90 for the radiator you have listed for $219? I'll tell all my friends about you." Again, that's not who I am catering to.
My website is sparsely functional since we are moving it to a faster
server and it's not functional at times. By next weekend it will be
fully functional again and reloaded with products and contact info. I've
been in business for 6 years at the same location.
I can do better on the price if customers are willing to buy direct
from my website. I can give you a coupon for the Corvette forums. I
can do $179 and flat rate $29 shipping.
Getting to the differences between our 829 model and the other 2-row units:
1) Mine is sexier looking. Rounded corners versus Chinese designed square. We design all of our radiators in house and don't farm it out to the Chinese. In the 84-90 case, not that it matters much since you can't see it once it's installed.
2) The hose connections on my unit are much longer. My picture shows
the old style, however the radiators are made now with longer hose
connections to clear the plastic housing with ease.
3) We use a plate cooler. They use a cheap concentric cooler. It may
not be a big deal to you, but it is to someone who is going to use the
transcooler.
4) We don't spray paint our radiators. It's more than for just a faux
aluminum look - it's because they do a crappy job leak testing their
radiators and the paint is actually a sealer to seal all of the leaks.
Take the paint off to polish it up and you'er going to have a
sprinkler under the hood.
After re-reading this tonight, I realize I misinterpreted more than one thing. Since they said they DESIGN radiators in-house and don't farm them out to the chinese, I assumed they farmed theirs out to some foreign country. He should have said they were made in America!!!
He was wrong about the spray paint (as I already noted). Mine wasn't sprayed.
If his sale picture is not current, I wonder how much more like the DeWitts his look? leesvet said his fit w/o modification. In leesvet thread, he said they look identical. In ECP's response, they say their radiators have round corners -- not like their old picture.
Maybe the ECP really is a great alternative and made in the USA???
Personally, I don't like a seller who doesn't provide contact information but he says he will in the future... I guess we'll see.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
When I asked the Engineered Cooling Products owner about the quality, price, and lack of contact phone number, here was his reply....
You completely misunderstood my point about pricing. It's about
expectation, a lot of which is based on price. When you spend $500 for a BeCool or DeWitts, you have an expectation that it's going to fit, work well and not fall apart in 3 weeks. When you spend $169, you have a different expectation unless you live in a land of rainbows and
unicorns.
When you have an outrageous HP cooling guarantee, a lifetime guarantee (that's really unrealistic if you read the fine print), a return-it-for-whatever reason if you're not happy with it guarantee (and we WILL charge you a restocking fee and not refund your shipping
charges - they just did this to a customer of mine) and your target customer has an unrealistic expectation. With that comes a lot of problematic customers that they can have. That's why ECP is not the lowest priced player in the game and have no intention of being one. I'm a straight shooter and not laying snake oil on to sell you
anything and can sleep at night knowing I represent my product without gimmicks.
I used to have my phone number in my listings, but 95% of the phone
calls I would get would be something to the effect of: "Would you take $90 for the radiator you have listed for $219? I'll tell all my friends about you." Again, that's not who I am catering to.
My website is sparsely functional since we are moving it to a faster
server and it's not functional at times. By next weekend it will be
fully functional again and reloaded with products and contact info. I've
been in business for 6 years at the same location.
I can do better on the price if customers are willing to buy direct
from my website. I can give you a coupon for the Corvette forums. I
can do $179 and flat rate $29 shipping.
Getting to the differences between our 829 model and the other 2-row units:
1) Mine is sexier looking. Rounded corners versus Chinese designed square. We design all of our radiators in house and don't farm it out to the Chinese. In the 84-90 case, not that it matters much since you can't see it once it's installed.
2) The hose connections on my unit are much longer. My picture shows
the old style, however the radiators are made now with longer hose
connections to clear the plastic housing with ease.
3) We use a plate cooler. They use a cheap concentric cooler. It may
not be a big deal to you, but it is to someone who is going to use the
transcooler.
4) We don't spray paint our radiators. It's more than for just a faux
aluminum look - it's because they do a crappy job leak testing their
radiators and the paint is actually a sealer to seal all of the leaks.
Take the paint off to polish it up and you'er going to have a
sprinkler under the hood.
After re-reading this tonight, I realize I misinterpreted more than one thing. Since they said they DESIGN radiators in-house and don't farm them out to the chinese, I assumed they farmed theirs out to some foreign country. He should have said they were made in America!!!
He was wrong about the spray paint (as I already noted). Mine wasn't sprayed.
If his sale picture is not current, I wonder how much more like the DeWitts his look? leesvet said his fit w/o modification. In leesvet thread, he said they look identical. In ECP's response, they say their radiators have round corners -- not like their old picture.
Maybe the ECP really is a great alternative and made in the USA???
Personally, I don't like a seller who doesn't provide contact information but he says he will in the future... I guess we'll see.
You completely misunderstood my point about pricing. It's about
expectation, a lot of which is based on price. When you spend $500 for a BeCool or DeWitts, you have an expectation that it's going to fit, work well and not fall apart in 3 weeks. When you spend $169, you have a different expectation unless you live in a land of rainbows and
unicorns.
When you have an outrageous HP cooling guarantee, a lifetime guarantee (that's really unrealistic if you read the fine print), a return-it-for-whatever reason if you're not happy with it guarantee (and we WILL charge you a restocking fee and not refund your shipping
charges - they just did this to a customer of mine) and your target customer has an unrealistic expectation. With that comes a lot of problematic customers that they can have. That's why ECP is not the lowest priced player in the game and have no intention of being one. I'm a straight shooter and not laying snake oil on to sell you
anything and can sleep at night knowing I represent my product without gimmicks.
I used to have my phone number in my listings, but 95% of the phone
calls I would get would be something to the effect of: "Would you take $90 for the radiator you have listed for $219? I'll tell all my friends about you." Again, that's not who I am catering to.
My website is sparsely functional since we are moving it to a faster
server and it's not functional at times. By next weekend it will be
fully functional again and reloaded with products and contact info. I've
been in business for 6 years at the same location.
I can do better on the price if customers are willing to buy direct
from my website. I can give you a coupon for the Corvette forums. I
can do $179 and flat rate $29 shipping.
Getting to the differences between our 829 model and the other 2-row units:
1) Mine is sexier looking. Rounded corners versus Chinese designed square. We design all of our radiators in house and don't farm it out to the Chinese. In the 84-90 case, not that it matters much since you can't see it once it's installed.
2) The hose connections on my unit are much longer. My picture shows
the old style, however the radiators are made now with longer hose
connections to clear the plastic housing with ease.
3) We use a plate cooler. They use a cheap concentric cooler. It may
not be a big deal to you, but it is to someone who is going to use the
transcooler.
4) We don't spray paint our radiators. It's more than for just a faux
aluminum look - it's because they do a crappy job leak testing their
radiators and the paint is actually a sealer to seal all of the leaks.
Take the paint off to polish it up and you'er going to have a
sprinkler under the hood.
After re-reading this tonight, I realize I misinterpreted more than one thing. Since they said they DESIGN radiators in-house and don't farm them out to the chinese, I assumed they farmed theirs out to some foreign country. He should have said they were made in America!!!
He was wrong about the spray paint (as I already noted). Mine wasn't sprayed.
If his sale picture is not current, I wonder how much more like the DeWitts his look? leesvet said his fit w/o modification. In leesvet thread, he said they look identical. In ECP's response, they say their radiators have round corners -- not like their old picture.
Maybe the ECP really is a great alternative and made in the USA???
Personally, I don't like a seller who doesn't provide contact information but he says he will in the future... I guess we'll see.
LOL
I want a 5 - gallon total cooling system capacity minus the overflow reservoir 2 quart capacity.
5 gallons water total between the block, radiator, & coolant hoses.
That is exact what my 1970 TA holds for water- coolant mix.
I checked with a 5- gallon bucket in the past draining & refill.
factory 4- core heavy duty Brass & Copper radiator.
160 F T- stat.
Engine coolant temps hold steady between 160F - 165F.
Runs great at that coolant temp.
I read Vizzard's article in the past too.
It works & he is right.
Smart man.
He is The Modern day "Smokey Yunick".
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I won't be buying that guys radiator Greg.
LOL
I want a 5 - gallon total cooling system capacity minus the overflow reservoir 2 quart capacity.
5 gallons water total between the block, radiator, & coolant hoses.
That is exact what my 1970 TA holds for water- coolant mix.
I checked with a 5- gallon bucket in the past draining & refill.
factory 4- core heavy duty Brass & Copper radiator.
160 F T- stat.
Engine coolant temps hold steady between 160F - 165F.
Runs great at that coolant temp.
I read Vizzard's article in the past too.
It works & he is right.
Smart man.
He is The Modern day "Smokey Yunick".
LOL
I want a 5 - gallon total cooling system capacity minus the overflow reservoir 2 quart capacity.
5 gallons water total between the block, radiator, & coolant hoses.
That is exact what my 1970 TA holds for water- coolant mix.
I checked with a 5- gallon bucket in the past draining & refill.
factory 4- core heavy duty Brass & Copper radiator.
160 F T- stat.
Engine coolant temps hold steady between 160F - 165F.
Runs great at that coolant temp.
I read Vizzard's article in the past too.
It works & he is right.
Smart man.
He is The Modern day "Smokey Yunick".
I think you'd be close (to 5 gal) with one of these dual radiators. IIRC, the stock fill-up was very close to 4 gallons. That was after the engine install. So, it included all passageways.
The dual core radiator holds more. I didn't dump everything out to get an exact measure. I only drained the OEM radiator, replaced it, and refilled with distilled water + the green stuff. My guess is it took about 1/2 gallon more. It's possible it holds another whole gallon but I won't say that for sure.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,765
Likes: 5
Besides Autos, I work on diesels also.
Common rating for diesel engines, hours of use on it.
3,000 hrs ='s 150,000 miles driving steady at 60 mph.
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Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 16
From: Little Elm TX
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll go ahead and throw in my experience.
I have the Champion 3 row..... it fit perfectly, no issues at all, but, that is a little deceiving because my shroud has long been cut-up. (I've had a Be-Cool and other radiators in my car in the past at one time or another)
I did not plan on purchasing a Champion.... was actually all set to order a DeWitt Radiator, but accidently ran into the Champion for practically free.... so I figured what the hell, its not costing me anything. I'm told its guaranteed to cool 700 HP.... I've got no idea how they figure that, so don't ask.
My cooling is "fantastic" with it in the car.... blows away the BeCool that I had that couldn't cool my 6000 rpm 383 as well as this Champion is doing for my 6500 rpm 436..... this afternoon, I took my car for a spirited drive (In 107 degree temps) followed by 20 minutes of idle time in the garage in this heat and it never went over 196 degrees at any point in time. Bear in mind, this is a 6500 rpm 436 sbc making an easy 550+ HP. I am extremely happy with this.... my old 383 after a single 1/4 mile pass and then the drive back to the pits would be 215-220. Tonight, I had the equalivent of at least 2 or 3 1/4 mile passes in my drive tonight in much hotter weather and it never touched 200... this is new for me.
It might blow-up on me tomorrow, I don't know and if it does, I don't care, I'll buy a DeWitt or another Be-Cool.... but purely from a cooling perspective, its been freakn great. As a note, I also run a high flow reverse rotation Edelbrock water pump and the stock puller fan. (I haven't had the front fan on my car for over 10 years) I was planning on upgrading the puller fan.... but figure why at this point. Also, my fan is wired to my dash.... I turn it on/off when I want. It was on for my entire trip.
We'll see if it lasts.
I have the Champion 3 row..... it fit perfectly, no issues at all, but, that is a little deceiving because my shroud has long been cut-up. (I've had a Be-Cool and other radiators in my car in the past at one time or another)
I did not plan on purchasing a Champion.... was actually all set to order a DeWitt Radiator, but accidently ran into the Champion for practically free.... so I figured what the hell, its not costing me anything. I'm told its guaranteed to cool 700 HP.... I've got no idea how they figure that, so don't ask.
My cooling is "fantastic" with it in the car.... blows away the BeCool that I had that couldn't cool my 6000 rpm 383 as well as this Champion is doing for my 6500 rpm 436..... this afternoon, I took my car for a spirited drive (In 107 degree temps) followed by 20 minutes of idle time in the garage in this heat and it never went over 196 degrees at any point in time. Bear in mind, this is a 6500 rpm 436 sbc making an easy 550+ HP. I am extremely happy with this.... my old 383 after a single 1/4 mile pass and then the drive back to the pits would be 215-220. Tonight, I had the equalivent of at least 2 or 3 1/4 mile passes in my drive tonight in much hotter weather and it never touched 200... this is new for me.
It might blow-up on me tomorrow, I don't know and if it does, I don't care, I'll buy a DeWitt or another Be-Cool.... but purely from a cooling perspective, its been freakn great. As a note, I also run a high flow reverse rotation Edelbrock water pump and the stock puller fan. (I haven't had the front fan on my car for over 10 years) I was planning on upgrading the puller fan.... but figure why at this point. Also, my fan is wired to my dash.... I turn it on/off when I want. It was on for my entire trip.
We'll see if it lasts.
Last edited by Beach Bum; Aug 19, 2011 at 12:12 AM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Noted on two of our four automobiles, the avg mph is less than 30. I guess we don't travel that far. Now that you say it, I'm still thinking it should last about as long as a belt-driven model. Even that wouldn't be rated over 75k (IMO).
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll go ahead and throw in my experience.
I have the Champion 3 row..... it fit perfectly, no issues at all, but, that is a little deceiving because my shroud has long been cut-up. (I've had a Be-Cool and other radiators in my car in the past at one time or another)
I did not plan on purchasing a Champion.... was actually all set to order a DeWitt Radiator, but accidently ran into the Champion for practically free.... so I figured what the hell, its not costing me anything. I'm told its guaranteed to cool 700 HP.... I've got no idea how they figure that, so don't ask.
My cooling is "fantastic" with it in the car.... blows away the BeCool that I had that couldn't cool my 6000 rpm 383 as well as this Champion is doing for my 6500 rpm 436..... this afternoon, I took my car for a spirited drive (In 107 degree temps) followed by 20 minutes of idle time in the garage in this heat and it never went over 196 degrees at any point in time. Bear in mind, this is a 6500 rpm 436 sbc making an easy 550+ HP. I am extremely happy with this.... my old 383 after a single 1/4 mile pass and then the drive back to the pits would be 215-220. Tonight, I had the equalivent of at least 2 or 3 1/4 mile passes in my drive tonight in much hotter weather and it never touched 200... this is new for me.
It might blow-up on me tomorrow, I don't know and if it does, I don't care, I'll buy a DeWitt or another Be-Cool.... but purely from a cooling perspective, its been freakn great. As a note, I also run a high flow reverse rotation Edelbrock water pump and the stock puller fan. (I haven't had the front fan on my car for over 10 years) I was planning on upgrading the puller fan.... but figure why at this point. Also, my fan is wired to my dash.... I turn it on/off when I want. It was on for my entire trip.
We'll see if it lasts.
I have the Champion 3 row..... it fit perfectly, no issues at all, but, that is a little deceiving because my shroud has long been cut-up. (I've had a Be-Cool and other radiators in my car in the past at one time or another)
I did not plan on purchasing a Champion.... was actually all set to order a DeWitt Radiator, but accidently ran into the Champion for practically free.... so I figured what the hell, its not costing me anything. I'm told its guaranteed to cool 700 HP.... I've got no idea how they figure that, so don't ask.
My cooling is "fantastic" with it in the car.... blows away the BeCool that I had that couldn't cool my 6000 rpm 383 as well as this Champion is doing for my 6500 rpm 436..... this afternoon, I took my car for a spirited drive (In 107 degree temps) followed by 20 minutes of idle time in the garage in this heat and it never went over 196 degrees at any point in time. Bear in mind, this is a 6500 rpm 436 sbc making an easy 550+ HP. I am extremely happy with this.... my old 383 after a single 1/4 mile pass and then the drive back to the pits would be 215-220. Tonight, I had the equalivent of at least 2 or 3 1/4 mile passes in my drive tonight in much hotter weather and it never touched 200... this is new for me.
It might blow-up on me tomorrow, I don't know and if it does, I don't care, I'll buy a DeWitt or another Be-Cool.... but purely from a cooling perspective, its been freakn great. As a note, I also run a high flow reverse rotation Edelbrock water pump and the stock puller fan. (I haven't had the front fan on my car for over 10 years) I was planning on upgrading the puller fan.... but figure why at this point. Also, my fan is wired to my dash.... I turn it on/off when I want. It was on for my entire trip.
We'll see if it lasts.
OTOH, I'm getting kindof used to phone sales not being very familiar with retail products (in general). I call 'em phone jockeys now. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
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That is why I said to Caleb last month with ZF & spec clutch problems...............Give me the Head Engineer to talk to You Mother @#$&&#@ son of bitch................
LOL
Phone Jockey's.
LOL
BR
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From: Hinckley Ohio
Good point, I should have done the math....
Noted on two of our four automobiles, the avg mph is less than 30. I guess we don't travel that far. Now that you say it, I'm still thinking it should last about as long as a belt-driven model. Even that wouldn't be rated over 75k (IMO).
Noted on two of our four automobiles, the avg mph is less than 30. I guess we don't travel that far. Now that you say it, I'm still thinking it should last about as long as a belt-driven model. Even that wouldn't be rated over 75k (IMO).
Reliability was certainly my biggest concern, but so far so good. Seems based on the lack of failure reports here the reliability must be pretty good. Cooling failure reports seem to focus on fans, relays and radiator leaks. Personally I do not recall a single report of an electric water pump failure.
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From: Toronto ontario
Well I don't have an OEM pump anymore. I've posted that 2 or 3 times in this thread. If an electric water pump spins faster than a 30% high flow unit (at idle), then it sounds like a worthwhile consideration.
I did as much reading/research as anyone during my build and never saw if/when it's beneficial to convert to electric.
I did as much reading/research as anyone during my build and never saw if/when it's beneficial to convert to electric.
Now just picture a Mezzier 55 gpm pump, at idle. That's a lot of flow. if you have the upgraded fans get ready for some really cold A/C.
Thread Starter
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I gotta wonder if an electric water pump and the stock cooling system would cut it. Certainly, I can see where an electric pump would serve a better purpose than higher velocity fans.
Melting Slicks
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I thought you had all your cooling system needs met nicely on your 1989 383 Super High Street Torque ZF-6 tire & asphalt melting C4 machine.
BR
Thread Starter
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Plus, you never know if/when a water pump could go out.
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Its big deal was water gushing at low speeds, idle. So if you hade the orifice in place and a good stat, it did keep things cooler in heavy traffic,. cruising things were the same. The flow on the stock pump is near nothing at idle...thats where the edelbrock stepped up and made a difference. Wish I had another to go on the big radiator.....someday soon,.
I'll try to get a couple pic tomorrow...I was in there cleaning all day. I know I can see the cooler in front and the new condensor behind that. The new rad is 95% shrouded in...so its a little hard to see anything. Might pull the top just to check for bags and birds....then I can take some pics.
Thread Starter
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From: Overland Park Kansas
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Before my engine upgrade, the comments I'd read were something to the effect of....
If you want to change the cooling capability of an engine, you have to address the waterpump, radiator, and/or fans. More specifically, you have to change at least 2 of the 3. I omitted the later since they are in the best working order of the (former) three. (And, for a street-only car, I hoped two of the three upgrades would be sufficient.)
I still think that 3-row sounds like the better option after reading Beach Bum's post.
BTW...I know people have [debated] and will debate the merits of higher priced vs lower priced. Don't think I didn't go thru and read threads about radiator purchases. There were several recently that led me to think Champion, Silla, and ECP make some decent products. I even found a thread where a DeWitt's failed after only one week. There's nothing that says any given radiator might be delivered defective. All [I think] you can ask for is good performance, a good price, and good longevity.
Hopefully, the debate will continue....If I ever have the misfortune to have a radiator failure, maybe I can pay the difference for an "upgrade" to the 3 row -- especially if it turns out to be the better option.
Thanks for your post Beach Bum!
Last edited by GREGGPENN; Aug 21, 2011 at 01:58 AM. Reason: spelling
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That's nice to know! Because I installed my new high flow waterpump at the same time as the 383, I could not speak to the benefit of high flow waterpumps. Obviously, they can't compete with 55-gal/min constant rate for an electric, but it sounds like they can make a difference.
Before my engine upgrade, the comments I'd read were something to the effect of....
If you want to change the cooling capability of an engine, you have to address the waterpump, radiator, and/or fans. More specifically, you have to change at least 2 of the 3. I omitted the later since they are in the best working order of the (former) three. (And, for a street-only car, I hoped two of the three upgrades would be sufficient.)
I still think that 3-row sounds like the better option after reading Beach Bum's post.
BTW...I know people have [debated] and will debate the merits of higher priced vs lower priced. Don't think I didn't go thru and read threads about radiator purchases. There were several recently that led me to think Champion, Silla, and ECP make some decent products. I even found a thread where a DeWitt's failed after only one week. There's nothing that says any given radiator might be delivered defective. All [I think] you can ask for is good performance, a good price, and good longevity.
Hopefully, the debate will continue....If I ever have the misfortune to have a radiator failure, maybe I can pay the difference for an "upgrade" to the 3 row -- especially if it turns out to be the better option.
Thanks for your post Beach Bum!
Before my engine upgrade, the comments I'd read were something to the effect of....
If you want to change the cooling capability of an engine, you have to address the waterpump, radiator, and/or fans. More specifically, you have to change at least 2 of the 3. I omitted the later since they are in the best working order of the (former) three. (And, for a street-only car, I hoped two of the three upgrades would be sufficient.)
I still think that 3-row sounds like the better option after reading Beach Bum's post.
BTW...I know people have [debated] and will debate the merits of higher priced vs lower priced. Don't think I didn't go thru and read threads about radiator purchases. There were several recently that led me to think Champion, Silla, and ECP make some decent products. I even found a thread where a DeWitt's failed after only one week. There's nothing that says any given radiator might be delivered defective. All [I think] you can ask for is good performance, a good price, and good longevity.
Hopefully, the debate will continue....If I ever have the misfortune to have a radiator failure, maybe I can pay the difference for an "upgrade" to the 3 row -- especially if it turns out to be the better option.
Thanks for your post Beach Bum!
