Nathan Plemons

I know exactly where you're coming from. My car has encountered a fair amount of blood sweat and tears, mostly blood and sweat. It has also been called some really unfriendly names before.

If I were you, here is what I would do. Hotwire the fuel pump in the cheapest yet safest temporary way you possibly can just to make sure you've got that problem resolved. If it starts and stays running, you're actually making progress!

As far as the keyless entry system goes, I would just rip it out. Way more trouble than it's worth. Then you've only got one problem, the fuel pump relay. Start running it down methodically until you figure out why it's not triggering. You've got some great ideas on where to start already. It's just a matter of approaching it with a level head. I bet you can find the problem without spending any more money. You may not be able to fix it for no money, but at least you can find it.

mtnmanut

Dumb ? you say you only have 10 volt at the ign. pin. whats the voltage at the batt.?

wolfsinc

mtnmanut, the voltage at the battery was above 12V. I think I have it narrowed down to a short in the wires leading to the pump.

I decided to take Nathan's advice and just hotwire the pump in for now. I was going to add a switch under the dash if necessary for the time being. So I disconnected the fuel pump connector and put the volt meter on the power, read 10.8V.

I removed the fuel pump relay to jump the pins so I could make sure it worked before putting it back together. Then I was going to run the wires into the car. But wait, with the Fuel pump relay removed, 10.8V still. I remembered the oil pressure switch was in that circuit, so I disconnected the oil pressure switch connector, still 10.8V.

So I did a current test, 1.2AMP. Ohm out the wires and it's not reading 0ohms, it is reading 3.5K ohms. But it should be open, so it definitely has a short somewhere. So I am going to try and just replace the wires this weekend. Hopefully the ECM is not dead, but my guess is that the short is what caused the original relay to short out, and most likely took out the circuits within the ECM for the fuel pump. What I don't understand is why/how it was working before, unless the short is near the back of the car and my moving the wires around so much while changing the pump made the short worse.

In either case, I am hoping rerunning the wires will not be a total pain in the rear, but of course it probably will be.

So much work ahead of me. But it will be worth it once I get the car running like a champ again. Luckily I am patient, just frustrated because I don't have an endless supply of money to invest in the car all at once, that would be so nice. So I have to at least get it to where it runs good enough to finish testing everything else out. Maybe with luck I'll get it running this weekend.

Again thanks everyone for your continued patience and support. I love this forum so far, it's been a godsend.

Tom400CFI

Sounds like you are doing some good diagnostic work. That is nice to see on this forum. Good luck keep us posted!

wolfsinc

Ok, I finally ordered my FSM and FSEM. I also got a years subscription to:

www.eautorepair.net

I have checked it out and it seems easy to use and intuitive. I won't get the FSM for 5 to 10 days, so hopefully the eAutoRepair will get me by in the meantime so I don't have to stop making progress on getting my Vette to run again.

Going to attempt to rewire the fuel pump, or trace down the short, this weekend and get the pump in. I still think the ECM's Fuel Pump Relay circuits are fried so I am looking for a cheap replacement, but no luck so far. I don't want to spend full price, because I still plan on upgrading to a ODB2 ECM so I gain the benifits of more advanced tuning. Even though I don't have any mods at the moment, I plan to get some if the Vette will stop wasting my money on wiping it's ...... ops was I ganna say something rude, sorry, but if you think about it that is exactly what I did last week, cleaned out the gas tank, right.

Anyway I just thought I would keep everyone posted on my progress. I WILL GET THIS VETTE RUNNING. I didn't buy my Vette as a garage decoration, it will run, or sadly I will have to get rid of it, so someone else can come along and put $100 into something I missed and make it run like a champ again, because I've done so much work on it already.

Rambling again, sorry, working on that as well....not really though...

Stay tuned for the next episode of "As Crane's World Burns" Will his Vette Run, will it once again evade it's timely repair, or does it have bigger plans in mind, perhaps the Vette is merely awaiting the fuel to be added so it can put it's dastardly deed into action, burning down Crane's house and all that he owns, you won't want to miss the next episode, the suspense is killing me as well.

Again Sorry for the ramble.

Billwrin

So, how did it turn out?

wilcar

I have an 84 and I had problems with the fuel pump circuit. I made a new fuel pump circuit. Using a new relay I pull power from the back of the alternator, then run the "out" wire of the relay to a new 12 gauge wire that goes all the way back to the fuel pump connection at the tannk. To trigger the relay I use power from the HEI 12V wire. Now when I turn the key on the pump starts pumping. I have a shut off switch under the hood just in case I need to shut the pump off for some reason and I also have a Ford inertia switch installed in case I get rear ended or crash the car, then the pump will shut off. Just make sure you fuse your new circuit(I used a 40 amp circuit breaker) and a quality relay( I actually use a continuous duty cole-hersee 24059 marine type solenoid for my relay which is overkill for sure but works great).

wolfsinc

I ran into other external finacial issues which resulted in my putting the Vette repair on hold.

I don't think I am supposed to own a Vette. I get a really good deal, get it running about 90%, great power, good acceleration (other than the occasional bog down off the line), no stalls, just a bit of a slightly rough ideal and as mentioned before an occasional bog down off the line) but not all the time. I just needed to get the fuel pump and fuel filter replaced and figure out why the fuel pump relay never went high. Then BLAM, no start, no power to the fuel pump at all, keyless entry box fried (which is where I had the fuel pump relay wired into the Ignition pin), I killed the sending unit trying to clean it so the fuel gauge doesn't work now. And hasn't ran since. I have the new fuel filter in, the fuel pump is ready to go in, the 1/4 to 1/2 inch of gunk on teh bottom of the tank is cleaned out.

According to the FSM I troubleshot it down to the ECM or if that doesn't fix it the ECU. So once things calm down, hopefully in October, I will get an ECM and replace it and see what I get. If nothing else I will wait to see if I get an X-Mas bonus this year, or for tax season and take it to a real mechanic to get it fixed.

I have had some fun working on the Vette, but I still HATE mechanics. Mostly because of stuff like this, get it so close, then it all goes wild and I am worse off then when I started. In most cases it ends up being something that isn't too bad, but it just takes me so long to get it working.

It is a toy anyway, I just bought a 2011 Nissan Sentra, so I have my daily driver now. Just want the Vette running so I can go cruising and take it to the Texas Mile just to show it off. I was hoping to go this year on the Aug. 25th, but gonna have to wait and try to catch the next one.

Thanks for the inquiry. I will post more once I begin working on it again.

tkyterry

Get a engine other than a junk crossfire, or sell it and get a one without that 2 yr factory engine. Sorry

tkyterry

I agree to tkterry

GMAN1953

I don't agree since I have a crossfire with 79K now and sure I've had a few issues, but the cf seems to be working ok and runs fine now since I replaced the alternator....

Regards; G

ccrazor

Wow.. A noob that agrees with himself.. There is nothing wrong with a properly maintained 84.. Get lots of miles with smiles from mine..

mustangsmoker

I disagree with getting a different motor I have a 84 with 136000 on it n it runs great n since I put a fuel pump on it have had no problems just took it on a 500 mile trip a couple weeks ago n it got 20 mpg on the highway n drove awesome

GMAN1953

I drove mine on a 1600 mile trip and got 24 MPG doing 75 MPH...in May of this year. Of course my alternator went out last week.... got a new batt and alternator and runs fine again...

G

mustangsmoker

I'm driving mine south of chattanooga next month n leaving it so it don't have to deal with michigan winters its 670 miles so I'm hoping nothing goes wrong I just have to check my trans fluid for some reason its using it but ill have it fixed before the trip

GMAN1953

I was on your side of the state this past weekend for the Dream cruise..what a great time!!!!

Rick Trotta

i just seen this forum
im having the same exact issues.
I've replaced everything you did and more
I'm mechanically inclined but electrical isn't my strong area
ive haven't seen any updates on where you got with it
please let me know what ended up fixing it???
stalls stallsd randomly then frequently now wont stay running for more then 5 seconds
please help?!?!?

Rick Trotta

Please Help
i just seen this forum
im having the same exact issues.
I've replaced everything you did and more
I'm mechanically inclined but electrical isn't my strong area
ive haven't seen any updates on where you got with it
please let me know what ended up fixing it???
stalls stallsd randomly then frequently now wont stay running for more then 5 seconds
please help?!?!?
That topic aside though, I have to get it running good first, which I thought I had done, until things took a turn for the worse.

So I bought the Vette knowing that it had been sitting for about 4 years, and needed some work. I test drove it and it truly appeared to be basic tune up stuff, no taps, clicks, ticks, clatters or clucks. Just really rough idle, poor acceleration and an occasional stall. But for $3500 I had to have it, since I've loved Vett's my whole life and have passed up my Vette 5 times in the past.

I picked up the Vette and Drove it the 35+ miles home. It ran decent on the interstate, but I knew it was in dire need of a good tune-up and some tender love and care before I began pushing it too hard.

During the first two weeks I changed the spark plugs, spark plug wires, cap and rotor, serpentine belt, fuel filter, fuel pump relay, overdrive Relay, air filter (K&N), O2 sensor and rewired the security system/keyless entry system so it would work (someone had cut the main wire to the stock security system, most likely to install their own custom system, and they left the keyless entry system wired, but not powered.

The fuel pump stayed on all the time when I first got the Vette, this was draining the battery and of course causing the system to loose it's settings and codes, because I would either have to use the battery disconnect to spare the battery, or it would be dead within 12 hours anyway. After tracing things and changing the fuel relay I could not get the ECM to trigger a High (12 Volts) to turn on the pump. If however I ran 12 volts to the ODB1 (G) pin the car would fire up and idle great, remove the jumper the car dies instantly.

My best guess after all my diagnosis is that either the Oil Pressure switch or the ECM itself is having a problem in that circuit. I didn't have a chance to continue diagnosing that before my current problem began. I did for the time being tie the Fuel pump relay into the keyless entry ignition pin (goes high when ignition switch is on, low when off) into the fuel pump relay. This allowed the pump to be on when the car was being used and off when the keys were removed. This worked as a temporary fix. Any other thoughts on why the ECM is not kicking on the fuel pump would be greatly appreciated.

So after all the work mentioned above I had the Vette running like a champ, except for an occasional hiccup when I took off, possibly related to the clutch although it could have been electrical or fuel related as well, again I was not able to fully diagnosis this before my current problem began.

Now my current problem is that the car began running really rough and stalling when it got up to temperature, or at least that is when it appeared to have began. Then it slowly progressed to where the Vette will only run for about 3 to 10 seconds, if I am lucky.

Since this began I have done a Vacuum check, using a home brewed fog machine setup (which worked great by the way), changed the MAP sensor, rebuilt the throttle bodies and cleaned the injectors. Still no luck getting it to run. Even after the rebuild of the throttle body and cleaning the injectors the spray appears good and even, although the front one does appear to have more droplets, then the rear, but not by much. But the car would do the same thing, start and die out within a few seconds.

Of course now when I try to start it, there is no gas, so I am either out of gas, indicating that my gauge is not working properly and the gas mileage really stinks right now. I put 11 gallons in after the drive home to ensure I didn't run out of gas while I was doing the tune-up stuff. So the fact that it might be empty is troubling, but also possible especially with how bad it was running in the beginning.

Anyway I am going to change the fuel pump, with the recommended pump from a 1985 Vette. What I am trying to find out is, should I drop the gas tank and clean it out, or just clean it out as recommended by another thread on this forum?

Also where can I send my injectors to have them reconditioned and synchronized for flow (again another post on You Tube showed this being done, but they appear to be out of business now or are not responding to my emails). They indicated that they could recondition them for around $75 (not sure if that was each or not). In either case I have seen posts where this is preferred over purchasing new injectors, unless the new injectors are guaranteed to be tested as a matched/synchronized pair (which is hard to find and costs more when you do find them).

So is this accurate or should I just invest in new injectors?

Is there anything else I may be missing which would cause the car to run only for a few seconds, and then stall?

I have read and heard comments such as temperature sensors, TPS, IAC valve and bad ECM (which I am already suspecting).

I have found a mobile mechanic who might be able to come to my house and do a full diagnostics on the car, but I haven't talked to him yet to see if this is possible and how much he'll charge.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Wish I had the EPL system in place now, I know the data from that would be beneficial in diagnosing this issue. But don't have the $500+ at the moment. Anyone have a used one they want to donate or sell cheap to a new Vette owner .

Sorry this post was so long, just wanted to ensure everyone had all the facts, not just my saying "Help car won't stay running for more than a few seconds." although if that is recommended in this forum for better results, let me know, I can be short and to the point as well.

Thanks all in advance for you assistance.

WOLFSinc[/QUOTE]

Rick Trotta

Please Help
i just seen this forum
im having the same exact issues.
I've replaced everything you did and more
I'm mechanically inclined but electrical isn't my strong area
ive haven't seen any updates on where you got with it
please let me know what ended up fixing it???
stalls randomly then frequently now wont stay running for more then 5 seconds
please help?!?!?

fparkin

We never here what fixed this cars