Looking for some advice/clarrification on Supercharging my 1992..
07-02-2012, 10:00 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Looking for some advice/clarrification on Supercharging my 1992..
I appoligise in advance for the long post, but I'd REALLY appreciate some advice on which route to take on supercharging my '92 Corvette.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options for an LT1 C4. Either a Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options for an LT1 C4. Either a Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
Last edited by LT1*C4; 07-03-2012 at 08:42 PM.
07-03-2012, 12:55 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
I appoligise in advance for the long post, but I'd REALLY appreciate some advice on which route to take on supercharging my '92 Corvette.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options an LT1 C4. Either with Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks, which offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
That would bring the price up to $7300 to have an intercooled supercharger through Blowerworks. That and an additional $120 fee for paying via PAYPAL as well as shipping costs to Canada and I'm looking at $8000 or more.
If I didn't read about some users having trouble with their ATI systems, I'd just go with the ATI kit. install the intercooler that comes with their system and call it a day. But I'm worried that I'll end up being one of those people who have problems with belt slippage, low boost etc. etc. and regret the decision.
I'm at a dead end here and don't know what to do.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options an LT1 C4. Either with Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks, which offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
That would bring the price up to $7300 to have an intercooled supercharger through Blowerworks. That and an additional $120 fee for paying via PAYPAL as well as shipping costs to Canada and I'm looking at $8000 or more.
If I didn't read about some users having trouble with their ATI systems, I'd just go with the ATI kit. install the intercooler that comes with their system and call it a day. But I'm worried that I'll end up being one of those people who have problems with belt slippage, low boost etc. etc. and regret the decision.
I'm at a dead end here and don't know what to do.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
I am installing a Vortech V2T as we speak. With the guidance of blowerworks. (greg the best there is) to do it correctly is a considerable amount of work. Your engine MUST be in very very good condition.
Might just want to rebuild the motor with a stroke/Cam intake if you do not require smog.
tell you what though ALL the Parts and support are available instantly from gregg.
I have boxes of hoses, misc parts coming in every day for my install, I found mine used and it was already upgraded to the 8 rib unit. I will hit 5K total cost with a used setup..
You will need an intercooler. meth.
Last edited by illenema; 07-03-2012 at 07:19 PM.
07-03-2012, 03:46 PM
#3
Safety Car
Consider carefully the Step Up Ratio (SUR) of the ATI vs the Vortech head units. The lower SUR and the lack of belt wrap (area including drive and driven pullies) are the biggest things that contribute to belt slip and thus reduced performance.
I have run both Vortech and Procharger and both systems have their pros and cons.
Blowerworks (Greg) is a great guy to work with and the C4 community should be pleased that there are still a few vendors supporting this platform.
Good luck in your search for FI.
I have run both Vortech and Procharger and both systems have their pros and cons.
Blowerworks (Greg) is a great guy to work with and the C4 community should be pleased that there are still a few vendors supporting this platform.
Good luck in your search for FI.
07-03-2012, 07:27 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
I appoligise in advance for the long post, but I'd REALLY appreciate some advice on which route to take on supercharging my '92 Corvette.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options an LT1 C4. Either with Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options an LT1 C4. Either with Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
Everything is covered and completely explained down to a 150pg step by step install guide. Gregg also has a large catalog.
07-03-2012, 08:41 PM
#5
Race Director
go for the blowerworks setup.
1. dedicted drive belt for blower
2. Big injectors / tune (vs. the crappy FMU setup that comes with procharger)
3. custom bracket for the blower
4. methanol/water inj vs. a restrictive intercooler placed in an 'oddball' location on the c4.
Procharger abandoned us (they know their c4 systems arent that good) in favor of c5 / 6 kits.
All that said, the procharger head units are a quality piece. They seem to perform top-notch and you rarely hear about them blowing up impellers and stuff like the Paxton/Novi units.
The only issue I have with procharger head units are that they seem wishy-washy when it comes to releasing blower efficiency data, whereas vortech is happy to show that info and you can pulley your system to operate in peak efficiency. That said many cars perform spectacularly w/ procharger head units. Prochargers seem to flow 'more' than your average vortech unit (except for the vortech ysi which is a monster).
belt slip occurs at the crank pulley (not the blower pulley - like most assume) on those single belt setups with half the accessories being on one side, and the blower being on the other. You need a 6+8 groove crank pulley that allows a 6 rib (to drive accessories) and 8 rib belt (to drive blower) to sit side-by-side.
The procharger intercooler is a major restriction. C4's dont have a lot of frontal area for a traditional intercooler - and if you block the radiator with an intercooler, you'll be in worse shape than you were without an intercooler. All this said, if you can somehow make an intercooler work on your c4, it'd be a sweet setup for road race, open road race event, etc. )
Do blowerworks the first time, or you'll be spending money 2x to fix procharger kits problems.
1. dedicted drive belt for blower
2. Big injectors / tune (vs. the crappy FMU setup that comes with procharger)
3. custom bracket for the blower
4. methanol/water inj vs. a restrictive intercooler placed in an 'oddball' location on the c4.
Procharger abandoned us (they know their c4 systems arent that good) in favor of c5 / 6 kits.
All that said, the procharger head units are a quality piece. They seem to perform top-notch and you rarely hear about them blowing up impellers and stuff like the Paxton/Novi units.
The only issue I have with procharger head units are that they seem wishy-washy when it comes to releasing blower efficiency data, whereas vortech is happy to show that info and you can pulley your system to operate in peak efficiency. That said many cars perform spectacularly w/ procharger head units. Prochargers seem to flow 'more' than your average vortech unit (except for the vortech ysi which is a monster).
belt slip occurs at the crank pulley (not the blower pulley - like most assume) on those single belt setups with half the accessories being on one side, and the blower being on the other. You need a 6+8 groove crank pulley that allows a 6 rib (to drive accessories) and 8 rib belt (to drive blower) to sit side-by-side.
The procharger intercooler is a major restriction. C4's dont have a lot of frontal area for a traditional intercooler - and if you block the radiator with an intercooler, you'll be in worse shape than you were without an intercooler. All this said, if you can somehow make an intercooler work on your c4, it'd be a sweet setup for road race, open road race event, etc. )
Do blowerworks the first time, or you'll be spending money 2x to fix procharger kits problems.
07-03-2012, 08:59 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the responses so far guys. I appreciate the help.
The Blowerworks set-up does look nice, and as I understand it, their so-called "stage 1" kit, resolves the belt slippage issues some have experienced with the ATI kits. Is this correct?
I mean, besides the obvious fact that their "gaseous intercooler" is a sepparate option, does the BlowerWorks system really resolve all the issues of the standard ATI kit?
Or am I going to have to buy more "specialized" parts to get it to work perfectly?
What about the Vortech head unit? Are their any performance/reliability differences between theATI and Vortech head units? I know one runs counter-clock-wise and the other, clock-wise, the location of the air intake apparently is different between the two, but there's has to be more differences than that right? Otherwise, why bother offering two different superchargers if they both perform the same?
I've yet to see any pictures of the ATI set-up on the Blowerworks system, only the Vortech unit so that leads me to believe it is the more popular of the two options. Is there a reason for it?
Finally, just how important is having an intercooler (of any type) when pushing roughly 8psi into an LT1?
ATI, when I spoke to them, made it very clear that an intercooler MUST be used with with an LT1 or detonation WILL occur.
Meanwhile, Blowerworks makes their intercooler "optional". If having an intercooler is so important to the safety of the engine, why does the Blowerworks kit not come with one?
Can I get away with the Blowerworks kit (either with the ATI head unit or possibly Vortech) without using their intercooler for the time being and not worry about detonation?? (assuming all else is working properly with the motor of coarse)
I can swing the money for their stage 1 kit right now, but their "gaseous intercooler" option would have to wait until a later date...
Thanks again.
The Blowerworks set-up does look nice, and as I understand it, their so-called "stage 1" kit, resolves the belt slippage issues some have experienced with the ATI kits. Is this correct?
I mean, besides the obvious fact that their "gaseous intercooler" is a sepparate option, does the BlowerWorks system really resolve all the issues of the standard ATI kit?
Or am I going to have to buy more "specialized" parts to get it to work perfectly?
What about the Vortech head unit? Are their any performance/reliability differences between theATI and Vortech head units? I know one runs counter-clock-wise and the other, clock-wise, the location of the air intake apparently is different between the two, but there's has to be more differences than that right? Otherwise, why bother offering two different superchargers if they both perform the same?
I've yet to see any pictures of the ATI set-up on the Blowerworks system, only the Vortech unit so that leads me to believe it is the more popular of the two options. Is there a reason for it?
Finally, just how important is having an intercooler (of any type) when pushing roughly 8psi into an LT1?
ATI, when I spoke to them, made it very clear that an intercooler MUST be used with with an LT1 or detonation WILL occur.
Meanwhile, Blowerworks makes their intercooler "optional". If having an intercooler is so important to the safety of the engine, why does the Blowerworks kit not come with one?
Can I get away with the Blowerworks kit (either with the ATI head unit or possibly Vortech) without using their intercooler for the time being and not worry about detonation?? (assuming all else is working properly with the motor of coarse)
I can swing the money for their stage 1 kit right now, but their "gaseous intercooler" option would have to wait until a later date...
Thanks again.
Last edited by LT1*C4; 07-03-2012 at 09:04 PM.
07-04-2012, 01:40 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
There things needed for the install that will be quite rewarding.
Tech-1 scanner fuel trims ect. Kent Moore hub puller/installer worth its weight in gold.
Its a lot of fun to learn about the install. At the same time I installed insulation/air conditioning in the garage ( That was a best idea I Had in a Long time).
Read ALL of the Dowload section on the site.
Tech-1 scanner fuel trims ect. Kent Moore hub puller/installer worth its weight in gold.
Its a lot of fun to learn about the install. At the same time I installed insulation/air conditioning in the garage ( That was a best idea I Had in a Long time).
Read ALL of the Dowload section on the site.
Last edited by illenema; 07-04-2012 at 10:21 AM.
07-04-2012, 07:49 AM
#8
Another vote for Blowerworks from me. These installs can get complicated (especially if it's your first time) - and Blowerworks have been specializing in supercharging C4's for a long, long time. Customer service is excellent, and extremely knowledgable.
Also - Blowerworks provides the complete kit, including connectors, brakets, pipes - truly a one stop shop.
I went with a Vortech V7-YSi on my 1992 last year - it has been somewhat of a custom build because the YSi is so big - however the service and quality has been first class and I could not have done it without Greg @ Blowerworks.
Good luck with your decision!
Also - Blowerworks provides the complete kit, including connectors, brakets, pipes - truly a one stop shop.
I went with a Vortech V7-YSi on my 1992 last year - it has been somewhat of a custom build because the YSi is so big - however the service and quality has been first class and I could not have done it without Greg @ Blowerworks.
Good luck with your decision!
07-04-2012, 10:47 AM
#9
Hi Guys ! Happy 4th and thank you ALL so much for the kind words. At my age that's all that really counts ! LOL
First let's make sure that LT1*C4 understands a couple of basics (which I obviously failed to make clear to him!).
Both Vortech and ProCharger make CW & CCW rotation superchargers so that's no reason to pick one vendor over the other. The CW vs. CCW is all about the application and the kit designer.
Thanks to ProCharger and the introduction of the self-contained oiling system Vortech was forced to follow their lead and come out with the V3 series. So both vendors have a self contained blower oiling system. Is one better than the other ? I have no idea !
However the step up ratio of the ProCharger over the Vortech is so much better - on average 1 full point like 4.4:1 vs 3.61/3.45. That means the blower pulley is so much bigger on the ProCharger and much less likely to slip. Some belt slip is a good thing as it helps lessen the load on the blower gears. On the ProCharger LTx kits the belt slip occurs at the crank not the blower. That's why a re-design called for a new crank pulley with a dedicated blower drive belt - besides that also meant we could now key the crank pulley which is kinda important !
So actually I offer 3 kits: my original design which uses a CW Vortech V1/V2/V7. The blower air filter sits over the exhaust manifolds which many object to but I find not to be a problem.
The other 2 kits are the CCW with either a Vortech or ProCharger head unit.
Regardless of which kit you use the question of using a mechanical inter-cooler or not (be it air to air or water to air) is not so simple to answer. Suffice it to say the engine cooling on the LTx is crucial and you must be careful of where to place the inter-cooler.
So I took the easy way out - went with water/alcohol injection as it was easy and effective. Of course it's a PIA to fill etc. but then what ........ ????
You can safely supercharge the LTx without any inter-cooler if you run a proper spark curve with proper tune and proper fueling. Kits from ATI and Vortech did not or do not include a new tune - that's the critical missing component. And until recently the software (TunerCat and TunerPro) were not available nor was the Ostrich for real time tuning (at least up thru 1993 Vettes).
So the C4's are now fully capable of being properly charged and tuned .... !!!
In the end it is still expensive to supercharge your LTx no matter how you look at it !!!
BR- greg
First let's make sure that LT1*C4 understands a couple of basics (which I obviously failed to make clear to him!).
Both Vortech and ProCharger make CW & CCW rotation superchargers so that's no reason to pick one vendor over the other. The CW vs. CCW is all about the application and the kit designer.
Thanks to ProCharger and the introduction of the self-contained oiling system Vortech was forced to follow their lead and come out with the V3 series. So both vendors have a self contained blower oiling system. Is one better than the other ? I have no idea !
However the step up ratio of the ProCharger over the Vortech is so much better - on average 1 full point like 4.4:1 vs 3.61/3.45. That means the blower pulley is so much bigger on the ProCharger and much less likely to slip. Some belt slip is a good thing as it helps lessen the load on the blower gears. On the ProCharger LTx kits the belt slip occurs at the crank not the blower. That's why a re-design called for a new crank pulley with a dedicated blower drive belt - besides that also meant we could now key the crank pulley which is kinda important !
So actually I offer 3 kits: my original design which uses a CW Vortech V1/V2/V7. The blower air filter sits over the exhaust manifolds which many object to but I find not to be a problem.
The other 2 kits are the CCW with either a Vortech or ProCharger head unit.
Regardless of which kit you use the question of using a mechanical inter-cooler or not (be it air to air or water to air) is not so simple to answer. Suffice it to say the engine cooling on the LTx is crucial and you must be careful of where to place the inter-cooler.
So I took the easy way out - went with water/alcohol injection as it was easy and effective. Of course it's a PIA to fill etc. but then what ........ ????
You can safely supercharge the LTx without any inter-cooler if you run a proper spark curve with proper tune and proper fueling. Kits from ATI and Vortech did not or do not include a new tune - that's the critical missing component. And until recently the software (TunerCat and TunerPro) were not available nor was the Ostrich for real time tuning (at least up thru 1993 Vettes).
So the C4's are now fully capable of being properly charged and tuned .... !!!
In the end it is still expensive to supercharge your LTx no matter how you look at it !!!
BR- greg
07-07-2012, 06:36 PM
#10
Race Director
I appoligise in advance for the long post, but I'd REALLY appreciate some advice on which route to take on supercharging my '92 Corvette.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options for an LT1 C4. Either a Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
As far as I'm aware, there are currently only 2 supercharging options for an LT1 C4. Either a Procharger system from ATI, or a system put together by the company known as BlowerWorks (which utilize either an ATI or Vortech Blower) with their own custom bracketry/pullies etc.
I've done some research here on the forums in regards to ATI's system, but have read a lot of mixed reviews. There seems to be an even 50/50 mix of results with the Procharger system. Belt slippage as an example. Half of the comments I've read from those using the system claimed major belt slippage and loss of power. The other half stated they had no such issues and all worked perfectly.
The same mixed reviews can be found for the intercooler that comes with the ATI system. Some claim it's a horrible design which doesn't flow nearly enough air and doesn't allow for anything more than 6psi (even on a stock LT1) while others reported having no issues at all running it.
Fit, finish and overall system design, again, totally mixed reviews/experiences.
It's been frustrating trying to come to a conclusion as to whether or not the ATI system is a quality set-up when there are so many conflicting statements.....
The second option, Blowerworks, as I understand it, apparently resolved the issues (some) were having with the ATI kit, by including a different pulley design with their system (or something along those lines)...
---
---
The asking price of the Procharger system directly from ATI costs $6000. For that, I get a P1SC (self contained head unit), an intercooler, FMU and all required installation hardware. That, and 50/50 mixed reviews.
BlowerWorks offers 2 systems utilizing either a P1SC Procharger head unit, or a Vortech head unit cost same as the ATI kit at $6000. I emailed Blowerworks asking if there was any advantages from using one head unit vs the other, and was told that their was no "obvious" advantage between the ATI/Vortech superchargers besides the location of the air intake. I'll take their word for it...
With both options costing the same ($6000) - I'm not sure which route to take.
The ATI kit, comes with an intercooler which, even if not the greatest design, is still an intercooler and having one is a lot better than not having one at all.
The Blowerworks kit doesn't have an intercooler like the ATI kit does. They do offer a "Gaseous Intercooler" as a side option, but that costs an additional $1300+ on top of the $6000 for the supercharger system.
If I did purchase the BlowerWorks system, which does not come with an intercooler the way ATI system does, would I be driving around with a ticking time bomb under my hood? ATI is absolutely adamant about the importance of an intercooler on an LT1. Stating that you should NEVER run a supercharger on an LT1 without one - under any circumstances which is why they include one with their system.
The Blowerworks kit costs the same, is supposedly a better designed system but doesn't come with an intercooler of any kind. A great fitting system won't do me much good if I blow my motor up the next day... What do I do?
Blowerworks or ATI?
I need some advice here from those in the know.
Thanks again.
I got robertisaar (of tunerpro.net discussion forum) to create a $DA2 definition file that also includes an air temp vs. spark retard(or advance) table.
This will work on your '92 and would be useful to safeguard against knock during changing air temps (especially without meth injection)
07-07-2012, 08:22 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks again for all the info guys.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
Last edited by LT1*C4; 07-08-2012 at 12:09 AM.
07-07-2012, 09:09 PM
#12
Race Director
Thanks again for all the info guys.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do now have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do now have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
I also personally LIKE the ones (like D1) that tap the engine's oil supply. As for dirty supercharger debris being circulated through the engine.... = bogus.
Greg made me a bracket for a P600B (this blower is equivalent to P1SC, except smaller step up ratio) that spins a tiny 2.75" pulley on an 8 rib dedicated drive belt, w/o slip. Its a sweet setup that overcomes the 3.35:1 p600b step up ratio.
Get Greg to make a D-1 or D1-SC bracket. That'd be really cool.
09-03-2012, 01:08 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Thanks again for all the info guys.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
As I mentioned to Greg via email, I'm probably going to be placing an order with him in the next week or two. Have to pay off a few bills first before I take the plunge.
I do have one last question which I'll ask Greg over the phone when I speak to him, but thought I'd also ask here as well since I already stated a thread.
I've spoken to a few of the local guy's running Forced Induction setups (mostly Mustangs) and the one thing that they all agreed on is that if I have any plans on one day building up my motor for even more power, to go with a supercharger that puts out enough air to feed a larger motor.
They told me that the P1SC is a great head unit (a lot of them run one) but if I end up going with a stroker in the future, like a 383/396 - a D1SC would be a better way to go.
This leads me to the question of whether I should just stick with the P1SC or maybe think about going with a D1SC instead.
I do plan on eventually going with more cubes, so the D1SC sort of makes sense in the long run, but that all depends on how much more money I'm looking at, to buy the D1SC now. Along with any other parts needed to run the D1SC.
According to Prochargers website the (P1SC) should be good to aprox. 825hp. The D1SC, good to 925hp. The P1 sounds plenty strong enough for my needs, but I've also been told that going with a more powerful head-unit will also improve the superchargers lifespan. Basically, I've been told that because a D1SC wouldn't be working as hard as a P1SC to get the same power, there would be less wear/tear on the unit itself. Makes sense I guess.
Recommendations/advice would be appreciated. I'm so close to being ready to place an order.
Just looking to iron out the last few details.
09-03-2012, 12:38 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Yeah, I went ahead and placed an order with Greg at BlowerWorks not too long after starting this thread. July 27th to be exact is when I paid in full. According to the order details I was given, delivery would be 6 weeks after payment so by my calculations the complete system should arrive on the 7th of this month, just a few days from now. Having said that, since I haven't received a tracking number yet, I've got a feeling the delivery date may have been pushed back. 
So far, I've received the tuning software, (C.A.T.S. Tuner Pro RT) Chip emulator (Ostrich 2.0) and 63lb injectors.
I've been datalogging the car and exchanging info back and forth with Greg in regards to fuel trims, IAC reading, etc. over the past few weeks and I think we're just about ready to install the larger injectors. Just waiting on his approval after he looks over the last datalog I sent him.
Needless to say, I'm more than a lttle anctious to finally get the entire system in my possession so I can begin the install. All this waiting is driving me crazy.
Hopefully the wait should be over soon...
Looking forward to it. :-)
So far, I've received the tuning software, (C.A.T.S. Tuner Pro RT) Chip emulator (Ostrich 2.0) and 63lb injectors.
I've been datalogging the car and exchanging info back and forth with Greg in regards to fuel trims, IAC reading, etc. over the past few weeks and I think we're just about ready to install the larger injectors. Just waiting on his approval after he looks over the last datalog I sent him.
Needless to say, I'm more than a lttle anctious to finally get the entire system in my possession so I can begin the install. All this waiting is driving me crazy.
Hopefully the wait should be over soon...
Looking forward to it. :-)
Last edited by LT1*C4; 09-03-2012 at 12:45 PM.
09-03-2012, 01:48 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Yeah, I went ahead and placed an order with Greg at BlowerWorks not too long after starting this thread. July 27th to be exact is when I paid in full. According to the order details I was given, delivery would be 6 weeks after payment so by my calculations the complete system should arrive on the 7th of this month, just a few days from now. Having said that, since I haven't received a tracking number yet, I've got a feeling the delivery date may have been pushed back.
So far, I've received the tuning software, (C.A.T.S. Tuner Pro RT) Chip emulator (Ostrich 2.0) and 63lb injectors.
I've been datalogging the car and exchanging info back and forth with Greg in regards to fuel trims, IAC reading, etc. over the past few weeks and I think we're just about ready to install the larger injectors. Just waiting on his approval after he looks over the last datalog I sent him.
Needless to say, I'm more than a lttle anctious to finally get the entire system in my possession so I can begin the install. All this waiting is driving me crazy.
Hopefully the wait should be over soon...
Looking forward to it. :-)
So far, I've received the tuning software, (C.A.T.S. Tuner Pro RT) Chip emulator (Ostrich 2.0) and 63lb injectors.
I've been datalogging the car and exchanging info back and forth with Greg in regards to fuel trims, IAC reading, etc. over the past few weeks and I think we're just about ready to install the larger injectors. Just waiting on his approval after he looks over the last datalog I sent him.
Needless to say, I'm more than a lttle anctious to finally get the entire system in my possession so I can begin the install. All this waiting is driving me crazy.
Hopefully the wait should be over soon...
Looking forward to it. :-)
Its a good deal of work. but the first time you hear that engine come to life its worth it. - That happened to me last night, fired right up.
How are you removing the Hub? Are you going the ATI route? Remember a guy called Kent Moore.
09-03-2012, 10:19 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
As for the hub, I'm looking at the LT1 Kent Moore hub removal tool currently on ebay. Even used, it's going for $200. Ouch. If it's still there next week when I get my next paycheck, I'll probably buy it. Otherwise, a trip the local parts store and a "hub removal " rental kit may be my only option. I'm sure I'll figure it out...
I decided to play it safe and step up to the D1SC Procharger. I have plans to build up the engine in the future and I wanted a supercharger that will still be able to feed the additional 46 cubic inches of displacement and 210cc AFR heads the new motor will have ...
Last edited by LT1*C4; 09-03-2012 at 10:27 PM.
09-04-2012, 12:05 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
Congratulations on the install. Must have been a fantastic feeling starting up the car for the first time after all that work. Can't wait to experience that same feeling myself.
As for the hub, I'm looking at the LT1 Kent Moore hub removal tool currently on ebay. Even used, it's going for $200. Ouch. If it's still there next week when I get my next paycheck, I'll probably buy it. Otherwise, a trip the local parts store and a "hub removal " rental kit may be my only option. I'm sure I'll figure it out...
I decided to play it safe and step up to the D1SC Procharger. I have plans to build up the engine in the future and I wanted a supercharger that will still be able to feed the additional 46 cubic inches of displacement and 210cc AFR heads the new motor will have ...
As for the hub, I'm looking at the LT1 Kent Moore hub removal tool currently on ebay. Even used, it's going for $200. Ouch. If it's still there next week when I get my next paycheck, I'll probably buy it. Otherwise, a trip the local parts store and a "hub removal " rental kit may be my only option. I'm sure I'll figure it out...
I decided to play it safe and step up to the D1SC Procharger. I have plans to build up the engine in the future and I wanted a supercharger that will still be able to feed the additional 46 cubic inches of displacement and 210cc AFR heads the new motor will have ...
