Specific 700r4 2-4 band question with pic.
08-11-2013, 09:05 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Specific 700r4 2-4 band question with pic.
Hi guys, I've been having issues with my newly rebuilt 700r4.
It currently has no 2nd or 4th, I've spent many hours reading up and taking the thing apart.
We have reverse.
I've got the pan off again and whilst looking through the window to see the 2-4 band I noticed I can only see one end of it.
According to this video I should be able to see both ends of it? (3.10)
Does my band look wrong? Could I have installed it wrong so as it isn't around the drum as it should be?
I'm going to air test the band, but i'd like to know if this looks ok first,
Cheers.
Aaron.
It currently has no 2nd or 4th, I've spent many hours reading up and taking the thing apart.
We have reverse.
I've got the pan off again and whilst looking through the window to see the 2-4 band I noticed I can only see one end of it.
According to this video I should be able to see both ends of it? (3.10)
I'm going to air test the band, but i'd like to know if this looks ok first,
Cheers.
Aaron.
08-12-2013, 09:05 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Cliff Harris;1584649528]It looks like the servo pin is not engaged with the corresponding socket on the end of the band.[/QUOTE
Hi cliff, thanks for the reply. My thoughts ate that the anchor pin is not located properly and that the band is slightly anticlockwise a little? The reason I think this is I can push the servo in a good 1/4"-3/8" and the band isn't tight at all on the drum. If I insert a bent screwdriver and grab the side of the band that's in the picture I can pull it another 1/2" after the servo has been pushed in, the band if definitely loose just trying work out why?
When you say the servo pin isn't inserted properly is this something I can do under the car?
What's my next move?
Cheers, aaron.
Hi cliff, thanks for the reply. My thoughts ate that the anchor pin is not located properly and that the band is slightly anticlockwise a little? The reason I think this is I can push the servo in a good 1/4"-3/8" and the band isn't tight at all on the drum. If I insert a bent screwdriver and grab the side of the band that's in the picture I can pull it another 1/2" after the servo has been pushed in, the band if definitely loose just trying work out why?
When you say the servo pin isn't inserted properly is this something I can do under the car?
What's my next move?
Cheers, aaron.
08-12-2013, 02:22 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ok I've found the problem -
I dropped the valve body, pulled the anchor pin out and i can see the band and the drum through the hole.
Classic misaligned anchor pin.
Is it possible to move the band round whilst in the car? I'd need to rotate it approx 3/4" clockwise but it's very tight in there.
Ideas?? Rotating the drum?
I dropped the valve body, pulled the anchor pin out and i can see the band and the drum through the hole.
Classic misaligned anchor pin.
Is it possible to move the band round whilst in the car? I'd need to rotate it approx 3/4" clockwise but it's very tight in there.
Ideas?? Rotating the drum?
08-12-2013, 02:40 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I tried rotating the drum but no good.
We're gonna try and get some wire in there drag the band into position, also thought of making a lip on the band with a drill to make a ledge to get a screwdriver on?
Any other suggestions?
We're gonna try and get some wire in there drag the band into position, also thought of making a lip on the band with a drill to make a ledge to get a screwdriver on?
Any other suggestions?
08-13-2013, 02:20 AM
#6
Race Director
The band fits pretty tight on the drum. You might not be able to drag it into position.
Maybe you could catch the band hole through the anchor hole and drag it into position and then grab it and hold it somehow while inserting the anchor pin?
I think your best option would be to remove the servo. You'll need a new servo cover seal because the old one gets destroyed in the process.
Maybe you could catch the band hole through the anchor hole and drag it into position and then grab it and hold it somehow while inserting the anchor pin?
I think your best option would be to remove the servo. You'll need a new servo cover seal because the old one gets destroyed in the process.
08-13-2013, 12:49 PM
#8
Not if you know how to do it without destroying it. There is indeed a tried and trued way to do it that anyone that knows anything about this trans, or has done more work on one than change the fluid and filter knows. I never hurt them, and re-use them all the time. Good thing, too. Total PITA and waste of time to find a replacement o-ring if you're not working in a transmission shop. Better off figuring out how to save it. I was taught the trick by a guy that built transmissions for 45 years, not from following advice from a poster on CF that knows what he's talking about maybe one in five times.
Last edited by DaveP85C4; 05-16-2016 at 12:56 AM.
08-13-2013, 03:26 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You will have to loosen the servo to get the band on the anchor. You may also have to remove the valve body, let the anchor pin drop down, position the band, and push the pin into it.
What ever you end up doing, be sure the band wiggles on the drum when you get done, and that you can rotate the driveshaft in both directions, albeit with resistance. This checks that the band isn't too tight.
Here's a trick that saves the blue servo cover o-ring.
Remove the snap ring. Wiggle the cover out until the o-ring drops into the snap ring groove. In the little recess at 6:00, with a little screwdriver, carefully get behind the o-ring and "stretch" it out while wiggling and pulling on the cover with a channel locks. Usually about 3/4" of stretching is enough to reduce the diameter of the o-ring and the cover will pop out. Works every time for me. Just stretch carefully, or the o-ring will get cut on the edge of the recess.
What ever you end up doing, be sure the band wiggles on the drum when you get done, and that you can rotate the driveshaft in both directions, albeit with resistance. This checks that the band isn't too tight.
Here's a trick that saves the blue servo cover o-ring.
Remove the snap ring. Wiggle the cover out until the o-ring drops into the snap ring groove. In the little recess at 6:00, with a little screwdriver, carefully get behind the o-ring and "stretch" it out while wiggling and pulling on the cover with a channel locks. Usually about 3/4" of stretching is enough to reduce the diameter of the o-ring and the cover will pop out. Works every time for me. Just stretch carefully, or the o-ring will get cut on the edge of the recess.
I've moved the band approx 1/4-3/8" so far, I can now just see the start of the anchor pin locator in the band, it's very tough trying to move the band as the locator hole is proud of the band and is squashing the band onto the drum. Just waiting for the drill battery to charge up then i'll drill another hole nearer the edge of the anchor pin hole and lever again until I can see the locator hole then i'm probably home
So close!
The valve body is off anyway, servo still attached at the moment, i'll be back soon guys..
08-13-2013, 04:33 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You can't push the band onto the anchor pin with the pump installed because you can't push the drum up to get the anchor boss over the pin because the pump keeps the drum on center. (Remember how it assembles. The band is normally put in and on with the pump removed. You can push the drum around quite a bit when the pump isn't holding the drum on center). When properly assembled, there is less clearance between the band and the drum than the depth that the pin inserts into the recess, or the band would be able to pop off the pin during normal operation. Installing the pump, locks the band onto the anchor pin.
You also MUST release the servo or you'll be fighting this forever.
If the VB is removed, you're close to getting the pin out. You will have to remove the aux valve body and spacer plate and gasket. And deal with the check *****. It isn't as easy to fix as it would have been to just double check that the band was on the anchor before you put the pump in. But, you'll get it. Good luck.
You also MUST release the servo or you'll be fighting this forever.
If the VB is removed, you're close to getting the pin out. You will have to remove the aux valve body and spacer plate and gasket. And deal with the check *****. It isn't as easy to fix as it would have been to just double check that the band was on the anchor before you put the pump in. But, you'll get it. Good luck.
I'm so glad I don't have to remove the trans.
Ha ha, I've had the valve body off so many times now I could do it blindfolded
This is the first trans i've rebuilt and I obviously put the band in wrong, you live and learn, I'll have it all back together tomorrow and I'll report back on how she behaves.
08-14-2013, 04:07 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Right guys, she's all back together and we'll fire her up once we get in from work tomorrow.
Oh by the way with the car not running the shift between gears feels feels firmer, would that have anything to do with the band now tighter?
Just an observation.
Oh by the way with the car not running the shift between gears feels feels firmer, would that have anything to do with the band now tighter?
Just an observation.
08-15-2013, 05:10 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Just took her out and she runs like a champ
Changing gears perfectly, I took a video but it won't upload for some reason. I'll sort it.
Anyway cheers guys
Changing gears perfectly, I took a video but it won't upload for some reason. I'll sort it.
Anyway cheers guys
08-16-2013, 09:26 AM
#14
Racer
If you are talking about moving the shifter through the detents, the band would have nothing to do with it.
08-16-2013, 10:15 AM
#15
Race Director
Nice fix
08-18-2013, 04:40 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks guys
We've driven the car a few times now and the trans is lovely, always seems to be in the right gear.
The trans has -
70237 3-4 throttle valve 700R4
TCI-376600 UNIVERSAL LOCK UP KIT
Vette servo
B&M 70239 - B&M Shift Improver Kit
Observations -
1 - The trans doesn't seem to want to drop down from 4th to 3rd, even at full throttle, we will do more tests
2 - The 1-2 shift is hard, too hard for a cruiser that the Studebaker is. I installed a shift kit, (edit - I've just realised i've got the 'street' shift kit, set up, not the 'heavy duty', I will change this out).
3 - The trans changes too early at WOT, it's changing gear around 4300rpm and i'd like it to change around 5000-5500, any idea on how to do this?
These are tweaks i'd like to do, overall i'm very impressed with the trans
We've driven the car a few times now and the trans is lovely, always seems to be in the right gear.
The trans has -
70237 3-4 throttle valve 700R4
TCI-376600 UNIVERSAL LOCK UP KIT
Vette servo
B&M 70239 - B&M Shift Improver Kit
Observations -
1 - The trans doesn't seem to want to drop down from 4th to 3rd, even at full throttle, we will do more tests
2 - The 1-2 shift is hard, too hard for a cruiser that the Studebaker is. I installed a shift kit, (edit - I've just realised i've got the 'street' shift kit, set up, not the 'heavy duty', I will change this out).
3 - The trans changes too early at WOT, it's changing gear around 4300rpm and i'd like it to change around 5000-5500, any idea on how to do this?
These are tweaks i'd like to do, overall i'm very impressed with the trans
Last edited by aaroncorvette; 08-18-2013 at 04:53 PM.
08-19-2013, 02:36 AM
#18
Race Director
1 - The trans doesn't seem to want to drop down from 4th to 3rd, even at full throttle, we will do more tests
2 - The 1-2 shift is hard, too hard for a cruiser that the Studebaker is. I installed a shift kit, (edit - I've just realised i've got the 'street' shift kit, set up, not the 'heavy duty', I will change this out).
3 - The trans changes too early at WOT, it's changing gear around 4300rpm and i'd like it to change around 5000-5500, any idea on how to do this?
2 - The 1-2 shift is hard, too hard for a cruiser that the Studebaker is. I installed a shift kit, (edit - I've just realised i've got the 'street' shift kit, set up, not the 'heavy duty', I will change this out).
3 - The trans changes too early at WOT, it's changing gear around 4300rpm and i'd like it to change around 5000-5500, any idea on how to do this?
http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php
They mention a "Part 4" of the series, but it doesn't exist.