what's holding me back?
05-19-2014, 01:40 AM
#42
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Posts: 20,161
Received 640 Likes
on
444 Posts
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
IMHO a professional tune is in order before any more cash is spent on parts.
05-19-2014, 08:18 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
Where are you located? I live in the DC metro area, and labor is high. But even at that, a local dyno shop will strap my car down, make 3 pulls with wide band readings for $75.00. The closest drag strip has a test and tune every Thursday and it cost $20.00.
The point is, you need to take it somewhere and see what it is actually doing, be it a dyno or a track.
We are all making suggestions on "why your car does not run as well as your dads C5" and nobody, including you have anything to base it on, other then "I feel it should be faster after spending $10,000.00 on it"
Again, test it before changing anything else.
The point is, you need to take it somewhere and see what it is actually doing, be it a dyno or a track.
We are all making suggestions on "why your car does not run as well as your dads C5" and nobody, including you have anything to base it on, other then "I feel it should be faster after spending $10,000.00 on it"
Again, test it before changing anything else.
05-19-2014, 12:12 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Look,
I want to help but you keep posting silly things.....I am not trying to be a jerk, I have an 85 and I know the issues that can arise and I feel for you.
you really to have someone go over this car that knows this era of Corvettes and go through it......no offense to you, but from what I gather, you are a young guy trying to make a hot rod out of an old Corvette. Nothing wrong with that scenario, but it appears you spent $ on this car that you really don't have and keep asking questions about what is going on with your car on this forum and every time you do it is almost like a comedy show......again please don't take this the wrong way, it appears you are a nice kid, but.....you and your dad need to find a good GM technician or at least someone who knows these types of issues better than you......
I have tracked your situation since you bought the heads and did some "decking to your block" on your own. That alone was risky business based on the threads I saw.....You put h/p heads then on a deck(s) that I am not sure are "true" with uneven compression ratios across the board on a short block that had some miles on it......not exactly the best scenario....
take the car and run it down the track or get it dyno tuned and give us some real word data and let us try to help with that.......
I want to help but you keep posting silly things.....I am not trying to be a jerk, I have an 85 and I know the issues that can arise and I feel for you.
you really to have someone go over this car that knows this era of Corvettes and go through it......no offense to you, but from what I gather, you are a young guy trying to make a hot rod out of an old Corvette. Nothing wrong with that scenario, but it appears you spent $ on this car that you really don't have and keep asking questions about what is going on with your car on this forum and every time you do it is almost like a comedy show......again please don't take this the wrong way, it appears you are a nice kid, but.....you and your dad need to find a good GM technician or at least someone who knows these types of issues better than you......
I have tracked your situation since you bought the heads and did some "decking to your block" on your own. That alone was risky business based on the threads I saw.....You put h/p heads then on a deck(s) that I am not sure are "true" with uneven compression ratios across the board on a short block that had some miles on it......not exactly the best scenario....
take the car and run it down the track or get it dyno tuned and give us some real word data and let us try to help with that.......
05-19-2014, 04:34 PM
#45
Race Director
05-19-2014, 09:07 PM
#46
Safety Car
05-20-2014, 03:54 PM
#48
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Okay, so I took it to a buddy of mine who has been building SBC, BBC, etc, for years. His brother builds SBF and BBF and they have done a few rice burners too.
They looked at it, said it wasn't misfiring.
They drove it, said it feels extremely underpowered for the modifications that I have done.
They recommended me to Big Daddy Performance in Lakewood, NJ. They want me to see what it's doing on a graph but they agree it feels about as fast as a C5 Corvette and something is definitely wrong with it.
They did the transmission in my Auto Tech instructors 1991 Corvette. His Corvette has 3.54:1 gears, auto trans, Miniram, 58mm throttle body, ZZ9 camshaft, 24 lb SVO injectors, Jacobs Ignition box, D.U.I. distributor, and what ever other small modifications that he had on it. He is also running an LT1 exhaust system with factory L98 exhaust manifolds and stock heads.
They said his car feels way faster than mine.
So I'm going to make an appointment there and see what they can do for me. I'll have them tune it and hopefully it wont cost too much. Then we'll see what happens.
If it doesn't fix anything, then it must be something with 1985 Corvettes...
Thanks for all your help.
They looked at it, said it wasn't misfiring.
They drove it, said it feels extremely underpowered for the modifications that I have done.
They recommended me to Big Daddy Performance in Lakewood, NJ. They want me to see what it's doing on a graph but they agree it feels about as fast as a C5 Corvette and something is definitely wrong with it.
They did the transmission in my Auto Tech instructors 1991 Corvette. His Corvette has 3.54:1 gears, auto trans, Miniram, 58mm throttle body, ZZ9 camshaft, 24 lb SVO injectors, Jacobs Ignition box, D.U.I. distributor, and what ever other small modifications that he had on it. He is also running an LT1 exhaust system with factory L98 exhaust manifolds and stock heads.
They said his car feels way faster than mine.
So I'm going to make an appointment there and see what they can do for me. I'll have them tune it and hopefully it wont cost too much. Then we'll see what happens.
If it doesn't fix anything, then it must be something with 1985 Corvettes...
Thanks for all your help.
05-20-2014, 04:16 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
Daniel you may have been money ahead if you would have had a reputal company like jasper do you a complete build. They did a complete engine for me for and little under 3500.00 with my dicount this included everything right down to the spark plugs. with my order I wanted right around 350 hp dyno before shiped can in at 363 hp and 430 tq. this is at the crank of course. a weekend of time to drop in turn key starts everytime with out an issue and never a problem. so total investment into a complete engine installed 3500.00 pluse a couple of PS hoses and some new vacume hose
Last edited by hooked073; 05-20-2014 at 06:02 PM. Reason: wrong number
05-20-2014, 05:33 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Bad news. Talking to the guy at the Dyno shop, he said I have a very very very good combination, and he says he thinks that my AFR is a little rich but not enough to make up the rest of the horsepower that I think I'm losing. He said my problem isn't in the tune.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
05-20-2014, 05:38 PM
#51
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
05-20-2014, 05:59 PM
#53
Team Owner
Bad news. Talking to the guy at the Dyno shop, he said I have a very very very good combination, and he says he thinks that my AFR is a little rich but not enough to make up the rest of the horsepower that I think I'm losing. He said my problem isn't in the tune.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
A few dyno passes will provide HP and torque figures for a baseline. Then the tuning can begin. And they will come up with the right tuning values once they know what the engine is putting out for power.
People have said that the SOTP method or the "butt-o-meter" is no way to figure out what's going on.
There's nothing wrong with any of the early TPI C4's. Properly building an engine with the right components can result in tons of HP and torque. There are guys here with 383 cubic inch SBC motors making way over 400HP. Hell, you can buy them as complete crate motors that make that kind of power.
05-20-2014, 06:00 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
It's not slow, but it's not as fast as it should be.
And every person I talk to that drives this car says there is definitely something wrong with it. "For the amount of money and time you put in that car, you should be way faster. Especially with a great combination like that."
And Tom, that's where I'm headed in a week.
05-20-2014, 06:09 PM
#56
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
HOW DO YOU KNOW?? Ya DON'T! I asked this earlier, and ya never answered me. Bottom line is you have no clue if it's as "fast as it should be" or not. Based on your build, and that a (obvious) novice put it together, I'd say you're doing well if you get 350chp out of the thing. Which would make it "as fast as a C5". 
The amount of money is your fault and a result of a lack of experience, IMO. Not "bashing", it's part of learning, but $10k is not good way to measure how your car SHOULD perform. 350/AFR/you cam/exhaust/intake...that is what defines the potential of your combo. Not the $$$ that you may have wasted to get there.
I saw that you're going to the dyno, but all you mentioned was getting to that (somehow) magical 12.8 AFR...and no mention of measuring the actual output. It's like you don't "Get it" -what is important and what is not. Finding out your actual HP is the most important thing, right now. If you're making 220 RWHP...indeed something would be wrong. If you're making 300 RWHP, I'd say you're doing pretty well. But right now, you have no idea.
I saw that you're going to the dyno, but all you mentioned was getting to that (somehow) magical 12.8 AFR...and no mention of measuring the actual output. It's like you don't "Get it" -what is important and what is not. Finding out your actual HP is the most important thing, right now. If you're making 220 RWHP...indeed something would be wrong. If you're making 300 RWHP, I'd say you're doing pretty well. But right now, you have no idea.
05-20-2014, 06:17 PM
#57
Well, I said it might be. But it was confirmed that it wasn't. They have a lot more experience with cammed SBC so they would know better than me.
It's not slow, but it's not as fast as it should be.
And every person I talk to that drives this car says there is definitely something wrong with it. "For the amount of money and time you put in that car, you should be way faster. Especially with a great combination like that."
And Tom, that's where I'm headed in a week.
It's not slow, but it's not as fast as it should be.
And every person I talk to that drives this car says there is definitely something wrong with it. "For the amount of money and time you put in that car, you should be way faster. Especially with a great combination like that."
And Tom, that's where I'm headed in a week.
You need to quit telling people you have $10k in it and they won't tell you its slow for the amount of money.
FWIW I'll have about $6500 invested in my build now. Only thing reused is block and LPE is doing machine work. You should do more reading and less posting on here and you would have seen it mentioned countless times to put a build list together and stick to it.Then double the price!!! Good luck!!
05-20-2014, 09:28 PM
#58
Race Director
You basically have a $6k build (tops) with results you aren't happy about. That could have been determined before spending the rest.
For huge problems with power, I have to think timing is the issue. It could be mechanical (cam), distributor (ele), or tuning. Could be a problem with the BIN file or cells in your timing table.
Nothing you post here will lead you to that solution. Put your head back under the hood and figure it out. You'll be smarter when you're done.
05-21-2014, 12:22 AM
#59
Melting Slicks
Bad news. Talking to the guy at the Dyno shop, he said I have a very very very good combination, and he says he thinks that my AFR is a little rich but not enough to make up the rest of the horsepower that I think I'm losing. He said my problem isn't in the tune.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
I'm going to take it down there in a week maybe and tune the WOT AFR to 12.8:1.
Not really sure what else to do.
05-21-2014, 12:51 AM
#60
Race Director
I think the dyno thing has been discussed a few times. Have you done a leakdown and compression test?