Da Mail Man

Greetings All,

....Have a unique problem here that i just noticed. It could have existed since i owned the car (1988 vette coup).

....Attached (I hope) find 3 pictures of lousy quality. In the one pict, you will notice a black "dual wire" connector near the battery and brake vac booster (drivers side) to which on each side is connected 2 red wires on one side of the connector and which goes to two more red wires (obviously "+" ) on the other side of the connector then, to at least 1 fusible link. (note; two wires on each side of connector).

....Years ago, i modified the cooling fans to come on at 180* and BOTH fans come on, not just one for additional cooling. Sunday, to be safe, i used a relay and made my own circuit for the aux fan in front of the a/c condenser and ran the feed (+) directly to the battery through an added fused line (fuse holder).

....What does this connector connect to or power up? There are two lines that are drawing a lot of current (note; never blew a fuse or FL (fusible link)). I will run separate lines directly to the battery sometime after i find out the current draw through an amprobe. Thanks,

65Z01

Does the Red wire or more likely the Orn (fusable link) wire run to the junction plate behind the batt?

I'm thinking they are related to the main fan relay, under the brake MC??

I'm wondering if the main fan is running all the time instead of cycling; what T-stat are you running?

wydopnthrtl

Can't directly answer your question but if the fans don't ramp up in speed you will get a big AMP spike trying to turn both on at once.

On my other toy car I use a flex-a-lite controller that ramps fan speed as needed based on cooling needs. It's not cheap but it works very well and I've never seen over 15AMP to flow 5500cu ft per minute of air (two S-blade fans)

Da Mail Man

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...Thanks for the reply.( For reference - caps are not yelling, just segregating portions of the answer/reply)

Does the Red wire or more likely the Orn (fusable link) wire run to the junction plate behind the batt?
UNKNOWN AT THIS TIME BUT, I BELIEVE IT MAY GO TO A SMALL "SILVER BOX" OR SIMILAR.. I WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE TO PULL THE BATTERY TO GET A CLEARER VIEW.

I'm thinking they are related to the main fan relay, under the brake MC??
UNKNOWN AT THIS TIME.

I'm wondering if the main fan is running all the time instead of cycling;
NO - JUST COMES ON WHEN THE TEMP REACHES 180*. I CHANGED THE SENSOR IN THE BLOCK IF I RECALL CORRECTLY TO 180* WHEN I DID MY INITIAL MOD IN MY 1ST POST. THE FAN ONLY COMES ON WHEN CAR REACHES TEMP OR, WHEN A/C IS ON.

what T-stat are you running?
AS STATED, 180*...NOT SURE IF BOTH FANS ON AT SAME TIME ARE RELATED BUT, I CAN DISCONNECT EITHER OF THE TWO AND REPORT BACK WITH RESULTS. I DON'T BELIEVE THE OVERHEAT IS RELATED TO THE EARLIER FAN MOD I DID FROM A KIT.

Da Mail Man

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Thanks for the reply.

Can't directly answer your question but if the fans don't ramp up in speed you will get a big AMP spike trying to turn both on at once.
AS A FORMER ELECTRICIAN BY TRADE, I AM AWARE OF THIS. I AM UNAWARE THAT THE FANS "RAMP-UP" IN SPEED, ONLY THAT THROUGH A RELAY, THEY ARE EITHER SIMPLY "ON OR OFF" ***** TO THE WALL.

WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IS A SURGE WHICH IS MOMENTARY AND SETTLES DOWN WHEN FANS COME ON AT FULL SPEED WHICH TAKES ABOUT 1.5 SECONDS - IF THAT, TO THE SUMMARY DRAW BETWEEN THE TWO. WHAT I AM EXPERIENCING IS A CONTINUOUS "HOT".

On my other toy car I use a flex-a-lite controller that ramps fan speed as needed based on cooling needs. It's not cheap but it works very well and I've never seen over 15AMP to flow 5500cu ft per minute of air (two S-blade fans)

ToniJ1960

Im feeling like this is likely going to be poor contact/conductivity in the connector, creating resistance and disapating power. Is the connector hotter than the wires? Are the wires hotter closer to the connector than further away from it? I think if the wire had too much current and that was heating it it would be hotter on the end that has the supply to it.

Simple test just clean the connector terminals. Spray some electrical contact cleaner on them and if theyre real bad scrape the metal pins lightly with a knife blade screwdriver edge etc and respray them. Dont scrape much or you could scrape off any coating on the metal. Spray into the holes on the other end use a small screw like a file (make sure the screw goes in easily so you dont expand the terminal opening) and run it in and out spray again repeat. Put it back together and feel to see if the heats been reduced.

At higher currents any small amount of resistance will create heat, by the formula P=EI

Da Mail Man

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Im feeling like this is likely going to be poor contact/conductivity in the connector, creating resistance and disapating power.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT CONFINED TO JUST THE CONNECTOR. THE WIRE ALSO IS INVOLVED AND NOT JUST BY HEAT "RADIATION" TO IT

Is the connector hotter than the wires?
THE CONNECTOR AND IT'S INTERNAL CONTACTS WERE THE 1ST THING I LOOKED AT BUT, ALL APPEAR TO BE OF SAME TEMP.

Are the wires hotter closer to the connector than further away from it?
SEE ABOVE COMMENT

I think if the wire had too much current and that was heating it it would be hotter on the end that has the supply to it.
I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT. THE WIRE WOULD BE THE SAME TEMP THROUGH IT UNLESS THE WIRE WAS VERY LONG IN LENGTH WHICH WOULD THEN ALLOW SOMEWHAT FOR MINIMAL HEAT TO AIR TEMP DISSIPATION SOMEWHAT LIKE A HEAT SINK BUT, TO AIR. THE POINT AT HIGHEST RESISTANCE WOULD DISPLAY THE MOST HEAT.

Simple test just clean the connector terminals.
LIKE I STATED, THEY ARE CLEAN.

Spray some electrical contact cleaner on them and if theyre real bad scrape the metal pins lightly with a knife blade screwdriver edge etc and respray them.
N/A

Dont scrape much or you could scrape off any coating on the metal.
SEE ABOVE

Spray into the holes on the other end use a small screw like a file (make sure the screw goes in easily so you dont expand the terminal opening) and run it in and out spray again repeat. Put it back together and feel to see if the heats been reduced.
SEE ABOVE - CONNECTORS ARE CLEAN

At higher currents any small amount of resistance will create heat, by the formula P=EI
BEING AN ELECTRICIAN BY TRADE AS STATED IN MY 1ST POST, I AM FULLY AWARE OF THIS. AT ANY CURRENT, HEAT IS CRATED IN VARYING DEGREES. THAT IS WHAT THE NAT. ELECT. CODE SPECIFIES ONLY A MAX/SPECIFIC NUMBER OF WIRES ARE ALLOWED IN AN ELECTRICAL BOX WHICH ALSO DEPENDS ON GAUGE. THIS IS DONE FOR HEAT DISSIPATION.

ToniJ1960

Well then you either have to high voltage going to something or too low resistance in that something.

Da Mail Man

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THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

Well then you either have to high voltage
IN A 12VDC SYSTEM?....THE "HIGH VOLTAGE" AS YOU HAVE STATED IT, WOULD NOT EXIST IN THIS CAR EXCEPT FOR THAT IN THE IGNITION MODULE/COIL OR AT A REACH, MAYBE SOMETHING IN THE COMPUTER BUT, THAT I DOUBT. IF I HAVE 12VDC GOING INTO SOMETHING THAT RAN ON 5VDC, THAT PART WOULD HAVE FRIED BY NOW. (I ALSO HAVE STANDARD HALOGEN HEADLIGHTS AND NOT THE HIGH VOLTAGE ONES SOME HAVE MODIFIED TO).

going to something or too low resistance in that something.
VERY LOW RESISTANCE WOULD IN FACT CAUSE HEAT AND HIGH CURRENT TRIGGERING THE FUSE WHICH IS NOT THE CASE HERE SINCE NO FUSES ARE BLOWN OR HAVE BEEN.

**ONE THING NOBODY HAS TOLD ME IS SPECIFICALLY, WHAT DOES/DO THE WIRE(S) FEED? I HAVE SUSPECTED CAUSES OF HEAT BUT, I THINK ONE WOULD HAVE TO WORK BACKWARDS TO FIND WHAT IS BEING SUPPLIED BY THIS WIRE AND CONNECTOR**

Mark8801

I know one of the things that one of those fusible links powers is the fuel pump.

At least for my 85.

ToniJ1960

I would think it could blow a fuse, but who knows fuses take a good amount over their rating to blow sometimes. But the only thing were discussing as a possibilty of heating the wire and connector is current here, and that has to mean too high a voltage or too low of a resistance (as in a short or an internal change of a component with a coil etc.) A short could also be a part shorted out but other things still inline with the power and ground so it only reduces the resistance enough, but doesnt `blow` the fuse.

Of course Im making guesses, but certainly to get too much current you need more voltage or less resistance.

Maybe theres some broken strands in t he wire somewhere but I dont think that fits.

Also as you said a surge is momentary and dont want a fuse to blow from one so that particular fuse may be rated high enough to handle a surge but still let something overheat in the absence of a surge.

Da Mail Man

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Thanks for the reply.

I would think it could blow a fuse, but who knows fuses take a good amount over their rating to blow sometimes.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR FUSES FROM BUT, THEY ARE STRINGENTLY RATED AND ACCURATE UNLESS IT IS A SLO-BLO. IN MY CASE I HAVE NONE OF THOSE AND 21 AMPS THROUGH A TYPICAL 20 AMP BUSS FUSE WILL BLOW IT OPEN.

But the only thing
NO - NOT THE ONLY THING! I ASKED IN MY THREAD/POST; "....What does this connector connect to or power up? There are two lines that are drawing a lot of current (note; never blew a fuse or FL (fusible link)). I will run separate lines directly to the battery sometime after i find out the current draw through an amprobe. Thanks,

were discussing as a possibilty of heating the wire and connector is current here, and that has to mean too high a voltage or too low of a resistance (as in a short or an internal change of a component with a coil etc.)
AND I COVERED THAT WITH A PREVIOUS RESPONSE. I FIRST NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE WIRE FEEDS POWER TO...THEN, I NEED TO KNOW FROM WHERE THE POWER IS TAKEN...SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THAT 1ST AND 2ND QUESTION IS THE DETECTIVE WORK! DEAD SHORT OR VERY LOW RESISTANCE = EXCESSIVE CURRENT AND HEAT AND IF SAME EXCEEDS THE RATING ON A FUSE, IT BLOWS. IT APPEARS I MAY BE RIGHT AT THE EDGE CURRENT WISE BUT, TO TRY TO KEEP EVERYONE FOCUSED HERE, I STILL NEED TO KNOW **WHAT THE WIRE FEEDS POWER TO...THEN, I NEED TO KNOW FROM WHERE THE POWER IS TAKEN**..


A short could also be a part shorted out but other things still inline with the power and ground so it only reduces the resistance enough, but doesnt `blow` the fuse.
"PART SHORTED"? THAT IS LIKE "PART PREGNANT!" I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT AT ALL.


Of course Im making guesses,
I CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT.

but certainly to get too much current you need more voltage or less resistance.
HUH???..NOT TRUE AT ALL! FIGURE AN OVER HEAD POWER LINE -17,500 VOLTS AT MAYBE 3 AMPS, ...VERY HIGH VOLTAGE AND LOW AMPS,...ATTACH THAT TO A DISTRIBUTION TRANSFORMER (A STEP DOWN) WHICH REDUCES THE HIGH VOLTAGE FROM 17.5KV TO MAYBE 220V AT 400 AMPS....THE LOGIC YOU PROVIDED IS A BIT FLAWED....MANY YEARS AGO, POWER COMPANIES FIGURED OUT IT WAS EASIER/ECONOMICAL TO TRANSMIT THE VOLTAGE AT A VERY HIGH NUMBER AND THEN STEP IT DOWN VIA TRANSFORMER TO BE PUT OUT FOR DISTRIBUTION

Maybe theres some broken strands in t he wire somewhere but I dont think that fits.
NO, IT DOES NOT. WIRING IN GOOD SHAPE.

Also as you said a surge is momentary and dont want a fuse to blow from one so that particular fuse may be rated high enough to handle a surge but still let something overheat in the absence of a surge.
YES, A SURGE IS MOMENTARY AND CIRCUITS ARE FOR THE MOST PART DESIGNED TO ACCEPT THIS BUT, NOT TO RUN EXTREMELY HOT ALL THE TIME.....IN ALL ELECTRIC CIRCUITS, IT IS THE WIRE THAT IS FUSED TO PREVENT A MELT DOWN OR FIRE....YES, ONE CAN HAVE A 20 AMP WIRE CIRCUIT AND YET, PLACE A 5 AMP FUSE IN IT TO PROTECT A DEVICE SUCH AS A RADIO) AND SINCE THE WIRE WILL ALREADY BE PROTECTED IF 5 AMPS IS EXCEEDED, A 20 AMP FUSE IS NOT NEEDED BECAUSE WHEN THE 5 AMPS IS EXCEEDED WHICH PROTECTS THE RADIO, THE FUSE BLOWS - 20 AMPS IS NEVER REACHED AND TEH WIRE IS SAFE....AND "NO" TO THE PART YOU SAID "still let something overheat in the absence of a surge" WHICH IS NON-SENSE!

ANYWAY, THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT---ANYONE ELSE?

ToniJ1960

As in a part that is shorted but not leaving the entire circuit at zero ohms.

Ok Im sorry to have bothered you, I might have a wiring diagram but I just feel abused right now.

Forty years in Electronics, college Electronic Engineering Technology, worked on tvs vccrs highe end solid state audio equipment all my life. Designed analog and digital electronics since I was 15. My father worked at McDonell Douglas testing solid state components that went into the Gemini Mission. He was the only one there who knew how to operate the cryogenic testing equipment. They handed him cash or a blank check to go buy equipment, and he taught electronics at Missouri Technical School with his friend Jim Long.

I will but out now as I clearly am so very clueless.

Da Mail Man

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As in a part that is shorted but not leaving the entire circuit at zero ohms.
???..IF THIS "SHORT" THAT YOU SPOKE OF WAS INDEED A SHORT, IT WOULD KICK THE FUSE..IF THERE WAS ANOTHER LOAD (ITEM) IN THE SAME LINE/CIRCUIT, MAYBE THAT WOULD CAUSE HEAT BUT, THE CIRCUIT WOULD NOT THEN BE SHORTED.

Ok Im sorry to have bothered you, I might have a wiring diagram but I just feel abused right now.
ABUSED?..I DON'T SEE HOW!....I POINTED OUT FLAWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. I DON'T NEED TO SEE A "DIAGRAM" TO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT OR, TO UNDERSTAND YOU.

Forty years in Electronics, college Electronic Engineering Technology, worked on tvs vccrs highe end solid state audio equipment all my life. Designed analog and digital electronics since I was 15.
AND SO? WHAT DOES THIS SERVE TO DO?..ANY ACTUAL FIELD APPLICATIONS SUCH AS BUT NOT LIMITED TO BEING AN ELECTRICIAN OR A LINESMAN? EVEN THOSE WHOM CLAIM TO BE "BOOK SMART" SOMETIMES DON'T KNOW WHAT END OF A SCREWDRIVER TO HOLD.

My father worked at McDonell Douglas testing solid state components that went into the Gemini Mission. He was the only one there who knew how to operate the cryogenic testing equipment. They handed him cash or a blank check to go buy equipment, and he taught electronics at Missouri Technical School with his friend Jim Long.
AND SO WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS, OR EVEN YOU (OTHER THAN YOU RIDING ON HIS ALLEGED ACCOMPLISHMENTS (RESPECTFULLY - NO DISRESPECT TO YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS)?..NOTHING.

OK, YOU RANG THE BELL HERE - I HAVE A BROTHER, WORKED FOR THE MILITARY, HIS JOB IN PART WAS BIOLOGICAL WARFARE, NUCLEAR PLACEMENT AND TARGETING, WHAT TYPE OF ROUND, HOW DELIVERED, ONTO WHAT TARGET, HOW BIG, DETONATION ELEVATION, RADIATION FALLOUT OF SAME, AND A BUTTON PUSHER IN SAME...SEE, I CAN DO IT ALSO AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME OR MY ARGUMENT EVEN THOUGH THE FIELDS ARE DIFFERENT...I DON'T RIDE ON ANYONE'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS JUST TO BOLSTER MY CREDENTIALS OR ARGUMENT.

I will but out now as I clearly am so very clueless.
AS YOU WISH W/O OBJECTION. TAKE CARE AND GOOD LUCK

Cliff Harris

I didn't want to wade through all that, so I skipped over most of the replies. That said...

In the first picture, the round black thing is a splice between a fusible link and a "normal" wire. The fusible link is basically a smaller-gauge wire that will burn out before the main wire does. Since it's smaller it has higher resistance and will get warmer than the main wire. The temperature could be normal or it's possible that the fusible link is on the edge of failing because higher current than normal is flowing through it.

The second and third pictures looks like it's the ECM reset connector. The ECM is powered all the time so that it can remember the BLMs and error codes. You can reset the error codes by disconnecting the connector for a second or so. Item #2 in this diagram:



That connector also supplies power to the fuel pump, per this diagram:



Do you have a non-stock fuel pump?
.

Da Mail Man

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Thanks very much for the reply!

.....Diagrams are pretty much what I was looking for.

.....In your first picture where #3 indicates the wire with the plug on it, that does appear to be the connector in question although I think I am going to remove the battery to get a better view of what's going on.

.....In the pictures I took the other day and posted here, it appears that I have 2 wires going into a plug, then out of that plug is 2 more red/orange wires that at least (maybe 2) go to fusible links(?).
TO NOTE; what I see in the picts I posted is that I have 2 wires going into a single fusible link(FL) as opposed to a "FL" for each wire - never saw that before.

.....Looking at the block diagram in your second picture, it appears somewhat different in that, the circuit feeds from a single red/orange wire (+battery 12 V) to a connector which has *three* wires on it. One goes to the oil pressure switch, another goes to terminal A. on the fuel pump relay, and another goes to the ECM connector. Mine appears that I have 2 red/orange wires going into a black connector and two wires coming out of a black connector both which go to a fusible link and then disappearing behind the battery. This settles it - I have to pull the battery to get a better idea as to what is what.

This diagram is for a 1988? To answer your other question yes I do have a stock 1988 fuel pump in tank.

AGENT 86

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1586038183-post12.html

Da Mail Man

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SPEC-DAMMIT-TACULAR!

...Thanks for the reply! A bit confused at the text that was under the pict in the link you sent. Are you indicating that the plug that i make reference to with the 2 wires and fusible links control the engine fans downline so-to-speak?

...Like i indicated, i modded the aux fan the other day so that it feeds power to the aux fan directly from the battery, eliminating the fusible links altogether (i put in separate fuse!). This would eliminate any current draw from those links if so connected. The only thing let intact is when the ecm or other, tells the aux fan to come on.

Da Mail Man

1....one of the 2 red wires that appear to disappear into wire loom - maybe to front of car.

2....is the connector that gets hot.

3....two orange wires that come out of hot connector and go into fusible link.

4....is u/k value fusible link.

5....is fan relay(???) on drivers wheel well near battery.

6....is the actual battery connector attached to battery.

7....slightly heavier red wire into fusible link.

8....connector that when i disconnect it, kills the car - most likely feed power to fuel pump in tank.

9.......red wire from fusible link to connector.

**I removed the mod i did years ago and still no changes in situation. I am considering where the connector feeds to specifically and may simply sub in 2 more relays with fuses.

AGENT 86

Yes, the 2 fusible links are power for fans. Sorry I was lazy this morning and just linked you to a post I made earlier this year.
Here is a summary of what is on my 86.
Leaving the pos battery cable are 2 red wires, one goes to jump start junction block behind battery, the other to barrel shaped splice. Where the red wire enters barrel, another red exits and goes to connector, which is ECM power. That's why your car dies when you disconnect it.
On the other side of barrel splice are the 2 orange fusible links, they are the power for main and aux fans. They go into a connector then into harness and make their way to main and aux fan relays.