My Build! 383, Superram, AFR, custom cam
09-09-2014, 01:19 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
My Build! 383, Superram, AFR, custom cam
Greetings everyone,
I figured I would put up a build thread, I am sure some of you will find it interesting or at the very least informative. First off this isn't a complete build. My 383 was built two years ago. At that time I was just looking into a clean rebuild and some minor performance upgrades. I was eventually talked into a stroker by you folks on here and my builder. For budget reasons I went with my stock heads. I did clean them up with some bowl porting, I also put in larger valves; 2.02 int valves and stock exh valves. For rockers I stepped up to a 1.6 by comp. The shop flowed the heads and the number at the end of the day was 210 cfm.. nothing special. For intake I went with SLP runners. The plenum was ported to match and the stock base was extensively ported. I opted for the xfi 268 cam from comp cams. Bosch 3 32lb inj, pcmforless tune, centerforce clutch, scat 9000 stroker kit, hooker long tubes, 58mm tb, kb hypereutectic pistons. All the other supporting mods. I never data logged the tune, I did take it to the dyno and it registered 311whp and 385wtq. This may have been inflated since I could only manage a 8.3 in the 1/8th at 84 mph. I did this with all season street tires and a 1.9 60 foot.
Now this setup ran strong on the street, it was a very fun car to drive; however, I always wanted a superram. From everything that I have read it is the best intake for what I want to do with the car. So early this year I found one on ebay for a good price and jumped on it. At the same time I got with Jim Barth and ordered AFR 195 eliminators cnc'd to 55cc. Come March I went ahead with the head and intake swap. The swap was a headache, lots of things that gave me issues, but I did successfully get everything bolted and torqued down. When I went to start the motor it would just crank and crank. It finally came to a thudding stop. After pulling the plugs I found out my motor had hydrolocked. Diagnosing the issue found an injector wire pinched and ground out. This happened during install of the superram. After a few calls and a testing I found that the one grounded out wire had ground all the other injectors open, dumping raw fuel into the cylinders. I found the wire and fixed it. I got the fuel out of the cylinders and the oil pan and started her up. She came to life after the second crank and my fears were put to rest! I did hear a loud hissing sound and feared the worst. It was NOT the superram! The egr was not bolted down enough on the intake.
After about an hour of driving the car there was EXCESSIVE blow by. I mean coming out of the breather, pushing oil past the valve cover bolts.. it was bad. When I did step on it I would get a billowing white cloud of smoke engulfing the car and crop dusting the cars behind me; oil burning on the headers. Something was not right so I took it to a local shop, AES, here in the suburbs of Chicago. After break down they found this..
Ends up that the last shop had put in cheap hypereutectic silver light pistons, the other pistons were all cracked in the ring lands, and this one broke apart. Explains the oil consumption I have been noticing for since the original rebuild.
Going with forged now!! After discussing how I wanted the build to go with AES; they mentioned maybe this was a good time to swap to a better cam. I ventured over to speedtalk and found a well respected cam guru, Mike Jones from Mike Jones Cam Designs. I called him up and discussed my build, he asked that I send him a cam request form from his website. He recommended a cam that a few of you will tell me is too big for my motor. It is 232/232 @ .050, seat duration is 280/292, lift is .576/.564 with 1.6rr's, 110 LSA. He knows about the superram and its capabilities. I told him it would run out of breath probably around 5500 to 5800 rpms based on all that I have read on this forum. He also knows that it will not flow as much as the heads, he still went with that cam. I told him my applications, fun street car with strip and autocross time. I wanted enough vacuum for brakes and that it would be streetable. He told me with my compression, 10.8, that I would be fine.
Mike Jones: "To move the power band down, you either use less intake duration, or advance the intake centerline. Either of these will make the intake valve close sooner. The earlier the intake closing will build more cylinder pressure and make more low-end power. The down side is, the earlier intake closing will hurt the top-end power, because it'll start starving the cylinder sooner."
I then asked what he did to my cam and he said: "Yes, the intake is advanced, and the seat duration on the intake lobe is shorter than normal for a 232@.050 cam."
Point being he sold me, coming from someone who's cams compete professionally all the way to Indy and Nascar winners.
I sent my base to my friend Ron(Cuisinartvette) to have it flowed. He does some amazing work of his own! His stuff flows a little better than mine, in the 240's for a stock piece and even more for aftermarket. If you need some work done send it to him! Here are the numbers:
#1: 232 cfm
#4: 237 cfm
#5: 234 cfm
#8: 224 cfm
I think I can guess by those numbers that I have a base that flows as well as an unported aftermarket. I am pretty happy with it. At least now I know where baseline is and if I get bored in the future I know that I can do better with a ported aftermarket.. or maybe custom FIRST base.
I also scored Corsa mufflers that will be going on! I just dropped off the cam today and was told it will be a couple weeks before I have the car back. Once back I will be taking it to a tuner in Ohio. Here is a quick rundown of parts and stats.
1990 Corvette Z51 FX3 6 speed:
L98 block
383 Scat 9000 series kit
BBK 58MM TB
Superram plenum and runners ported
Stock ported TPI base manifold
AFR 195 Eliminators/ 55cc
1.6RR
Forged dished pistons
10.8 SCR
Bosch 32lb INJ
Hooker LT/xpipe/corsa
Centerforce Dual friction clutch
Walbro 255L fuel pump
3.33 gears
Mike Jones Cam:
280/292 @.006"
232/232 @.050"
.360"/.353" Lobe Lift
.576"/.564" Valve Lift w/1.6 rockers
110 LSA
107 ICL
I will update this thread when information is available. A huge thanks to Beachbum, 383Vett, and Cuisinartvette for all the advice.
This place is a wealth of knowledge if you know how to use the search box!!!
and just because..
I figured I would put up a build thread, I am sure some of you will find it interesting or at the very least informative. First off this isn't a complete build. My 383 was built two years ago. At that time I was just looking into a clean rebuild and some minor performance upgrades. I was eventually talked into a stroker by you folks on here and my builder. For budget reasons I went with my stock heads. I did clean them up with some bowl porting, I also put in larger valves; 2.02 int valves and stock exh valves. For rockers I stepped up to a 1.6 by comp. The shop flowed the heads and the number at the end of the day was 210 cfm.. nothing special. For intake I went with SLP runners. The plenum was ported to match and the stock base was extensively ported. I opted for the xfi 268 cam from comp cams. Bosch 3 32lb inj, pcmforless tune, centerforce clutch, scat 9000 stroker kit, hooker long tubes, 58mm tb, kb hypereutectic pistons. All the other supporting mods. I never data logged the tune, I did take it to the dyno and it registered 311whp and 385wtq. This may have been inflated since I could only manage a 8.3 in the 1/8th at 84 mph. I did this with all season street tires and a 1.9 60 foot.
Now this setup ran strong on the street, it was a very fun car to drive; however, I always wanted a superram. From everything that I have read it is the best intake for what I want to do with the car. So early this year I found one on ebay for a good price and jumped on it. At the same time I got with Jim Barth and ordered AFR 195 eliminators cnc'd to 55cc. Come March I went ahead with the head and intake swap. The swap was a headache, lots of things that gave me issues, but I did successfully get everything bolted and torqued down. When I went to start the motor it would just crank and crank. It finally came to a thudding stop. After pulling the plugs I found out my motor had hydrolocked. Diagnosing the issue found an injector wire pinched and ground out. This happened during install of the superram. After a few calls and a testing I found that the one grounded out wire had ground all the other injectors open, dumping raw fuel into the cylinders. I found the wire and fixed it. I got the fuel out of the cylinders and the oil pan and started her up. She came to life after the second crank and my fears were put to rest! I did hear a loud hissing sound and feared the worst. It was NOT the superram! The egr was not bolted down enough on the intake.
After about an hour of driving the car there was EXCESSIVE blow by. I mean coming out of the breather, pushing oil past the valve cover bolts.. it was bad. When I did step on it I would get a billowing white cloud of smoke engulfing the car and crop dusting the cars behind me; oil burning on the headers. Something was not right so I took it to a local shop, AES, here in the suburbs of Chicago. After break down they found this..
Ends up that the last shop had put in cheap hypereutectic silver light pistons, the other pistons were all cracked in the ring lands, and this one broke apart. Explains the oil consumption I have been noticing for since the original rebuild.
Going with forged now!! After discussing how I wanted the build to go with AES; they mentioned maybe this was a good time to swap to a better cam. I ventured over to speedtalk and found a well respected cam guru, Mike Jones from Mike Jones Cam Designs. I called him up and discussed my build, he asked that I send him a cam request form from his website. He recommended a cam that a few of you will tell me is too big for my motor. It is 232/232 @ .050, seat duration is 280/292, lift is .576/.564 with 1.6rr's, 110 LSA. He knows about the superram and its capabilities. I told him it would run out of breath probably around 5500 to 5800 rpms based on all that I have read on this forum. He also knows that it will not flow as much as the heads, he still went with that cam. I told him my applications, fun street car with strip and autocross time. I wanted enough vacuum for brakes and that it would be streetable. He told me with my compression, 10.8, that I would be fine.
Mike Jones: "To move the power band down, you either use less intake duration, or advance the intake centerline. Either of these will make the intake valve close sooner. The earlier the intake closing will build more cylinder pressure and make more low-end power. The down side is, the earlier intake closing will hurt the top-end power, because it'll start starving the cylinder sooner."
I then asked what he did to my cam and he said: "Yes, the intake is advanced, and the seat duration on the intake lobe is shorter than normal for a 232@.050 cam."
Point being he sold me, coming from someone who's cams compete professionally all the way to Indy and Nascar winners.
I sent my base to my friend Ron(Cuisinartvette) to have it flowed. He does some amazing work of his own! His stuff flows a little better than mine, in the 240's for a stock piece and even more for aftermarket. If you need some work done send it to him! Here are the numbers:
#1: 232 cfm
#4: 237 cfm
#5: 234 cfm
#8: 224 cfm
I think I can guess by those numbers that I have a base that flows as well as an unported aftermarket. I am pretty happy with it. At least now I know where baseline is and if I get bored in the future I know that I can do better with a ported aftermarket.. or maybe custom FIRST base.
I also scored Corsa mufflers that will be going on! I just dropped off the cam today and was told it will be a couple weeks before I have the car back. Once back I will be taking it to a tuner in Ohio. Here is a quick rundown of parts and stats.
1990 Corvette Z51 FX3 6 speed:
L98 block
383 Scat 9000 series kit
BBK 58MM TB
Superram plenum and runners ported
Stock ported TPI base manifold
AFR 195 Eliminators/ 55cc
1.6RR
Forged dished pistons
10.8 SCR
Bosch 32lb INJ
Hooker LT/xpipe/corsa
Centerforce Dual friction clutch
Walbro 255L fuel pump
3.33 gears
Mike Jones Cam:
280/292 @.006"
232/232 @.050"
.360"/.353" Lobe Lift
.576"/.564" Valve Lift w/1.6 rockers
110 LSA
107 ICL
I will update this thread when information is available. A huge thanks to Beachbum, 383Vett, and Cuisinartvette for all the advice.
This place is a wealth of knowledge if you know how to use the search box!!!and just because..
Last edited by cypher85; 09-09-2014 at 09:41 AM.
09-09-2014, 08:33 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
its funny how these cars will bite you if you take any costcuts (the pistons) !
I used forged Icon in my engine, what pistons are you using in your new build ?
the golden rule as far as the cam goes with computer efi, dont go too crazy with duration , Im using a Howards roller with 225/231 and .530/.540 lift on 112 lsa and my old '870 computer with a Fastchip has no problems with it, so you should be good with that Jones cam and '90 computer.
good luck with new build
I used forged Icon in my engine, what pistons are you using in your new build ?
the golden rule as far as the cam goes with computer efi, dont go too crazy with duration , Im using a Howards roller with 225/231 and .530/.540 lift on 112 lsa and my old '870 computer with a Fastchip has no problems with it, so you should be good with that Jones cam and '90 computer.
good luck with new build
09-09-2014, 08:57 AM
#3
Safety Car
I just want to let you know that what you have is a "dual pattern" camshaft....
This is a common misconception when people get tied up looking at only one part of a cam card.... Usuallly they put too much emphisis on the wrong numbers.
It just so happends that the duration@.050 is the same (232*) on both lobes but the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe are different grinds entirely. Infact they are from 2 different lobe families that Mike has.... the Intake lobe is his newest technology and is a very aggressive lobe with short seat timing.... the exhaust lobe is a more traditional HR series and is less aggressive.
A "single pattern" camshaft is where the exact same lobe is used on both intake and exhaust.
Mike is a smart man. No doubt what you have will run well... even if it looks different to what people are use to seeing.
I'll put the results from the camshafts that I have had him grind for me against anybody in a similar application.
Also that is an exceptionally clean and good looking 90 6spd you have.
Will
This is a common misconception when people get tied up looking at only one part of a cam card.... Usuallly they put too much emphisis on the wrong numbers.
It just so happends that the duration@.050 is the same (232*) on both lobes but the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe are different grinds entirely. Infact they are from 2 different lobe families that Mike has.... the Intake lobe is his newest technology and is a very aggressive lobe with short seat timing.... the exhaust lobe is a more traditional HR series and is less aggressive.
A "single pattern" camshaft is where the exact same lobe is used on both intake and exhaust.
Mike is a smart man. No doubt what you have will run well... even if it looks different to what people are use to seeing.
I'll put the results from the camshafts that I have had him grind for me against anybody in a similar application.
Also that is an exceptionally clean and good looking 90 6spd you have.
Will
09-09-2014, 09:01 AM
#4
Nice build. I'm also in the middle of a 383 AFR 195 SR build. For cam I went with a Lunati 219/227 .515 .530 112 LSA but will also be using 1.6 rockers. You also seem to live pretty close to me if your in Chicago. I live in NW Indiana.
09-09-2014, 09:38 AM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
I just want to let you know that what you have is a "dual pattern" camshaft....
This is a common misconception when people get tied up looking at only one part of a cam card.... Usuallly they put too much emphisis on the wrong numbers.
It just so happends that the duration@.050 is the same (232*) on both lobes but the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe are different grinds entirely. Infact they are from 2 different lobe families that Mike has.... the Intake lobe is his newest technology and is a very aggressive lobe with short seat timing.... the exhaust lobe is a more traditional HR series and is less aggressive.
A "single pattern" camshaft is where the exact same lobe is used on both intake and exhaust.
Mike is a smart man. No doubt what you have will run well... even if it looks different to what people are use to seeing.
I'll put the results from the camshafts that I have had him grind for me against anybody in a similar application.
Also that is an exceptionally clean and good looking 90 6spd you have.
Will
This is a common misconception when people get tied up looking at only one part of a cam card.... Usuallly they put too much emphisis on the wrong numbers.
It just so happends that the duration@.050 is the same (232*) on both lobes but the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe are different grinds entirely. Infact they are from 2 different lobe families that Mike has.... the Intake lobe is his newest technology and is a very aggressive lobe with short seat timing.... the exhaust lobe is a more traditional HR series and is less aggressive.
A "single pattern" camshaft is where the exact same lobe is used on both intake and exhaust.
Mike is a smart man. No doubt what you have will run well... even if it looks different to what people are use to seeing.
I'll put the results from the camshafts that I have had him grind for me against anybody in a similar application.
Also that is an exceptionally clean and good looking 90 6spd you have.
Will
Thanks for the compliment!
09-09-2014, 10:34 AM
#6
Race Director
Great writeup. Car looks super. You'll have a wide torque band with the SuperRam. Good luck. Willie
Willie
09-09-2014, 10:57 AM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
its funny how these cars will bite you if you take any costcuts (the pistons) !
I used forged Icon in my engine, what pistons are you using in your new build ?
the golden rule as far as the cam goes with computer efi, dont go too crazy with duration , Im using a Howards roller with 225/231 and .530/.540 lift on 112 lsa and my old '870 computer with a Fastchip has no problems with it, so you should be good with that Jones cam and '90 computer.
good luck with new build
I used forged Icon in my engine, what pistons are you using in your new build ?
the golden rule as far as the cam goes with computer efi, dont go too crazy with duration , Im using a Howards roller with 225/231 and .530/.540 lift on 112 lsa and my old '870 computer with a Fastchip has no problems with it, so you should be good with that Jones cam and '90 computer.
good luck with new build
www.dssracing.com/default.asp
Yeah I am not at all worried about the cam selection. I can't wait to feel the results! The pistons are dished 16cc forged.
Thanks Willie! And thank you for your advice!
Last edited by cypher85; 09-09-2014 at 11:09 AM.
09-09-2014, 11:56 AM
#8
Instructor
Great build
Cypher85
Sorry to hear about the long road to your current build.
As a non-professional road racer, auto-x'er and C4 Corvette daily driver, I can personally attest that I have found an absolutely certain, no-fail way to make a small fortune racing cars (or building killer street machines): Start with a large fortune.
I guess you can second that!
Your 383 build sounds wonderful. I can't comment on cams, they're too damned complicated for me! However, it sounds like you got a fire-breathing monster tucked into that PRISTINE 90 Coupe!
We have rebuilt our 92 LTx race car twice in the past 12 years, very expensive, but very exciting. We are in the middle of rebuilding our daily driver 1991 Coupe as we speak (also using a SuperRam!). Aiming for the road 19 September. I may post details after the smoke clears for the benefit of others, but it has been an odyssey for sure!
ONE LAST NOTE: With all that power, if you haven't already, part with a little more coin for improved brake calipers, steel brake lines, and a full flush and bleed with new brake fluid. You'll need that with the dragon you're going to let loose.
SECOND LAST NOTE: I assume you are running 91-93 octane at 10.8 Static compression ratio. I don't know your quench distance, but one suggestion I received (too late for me to use it) to reduce chance of detonation was to coat the valve faces and piston faces with an anti-heat coating to reduce combustion chamber temperatures. I have no idea of the cost or efficacy of this (it was too late for me, so I didn't thoroughly investigate), but you might want to discuss it with your engine builder if your calculations indicate it might be an issue.
Cheers and safe motoring!
M
Sorry to hear about the long road to your current build.
As a non-professional road racer, auto-x'er and C4 Corvette daily driver, I can personally attest that I have found an absolutely certain, no-fail way to make a small fortune racing cars (or building killer street machines): Start with a large fortune.
I guess you can second that!
Your 383 build sounds wonderful. I can't comment on cams, they're too damned complicated for me! However, it sounds like you got a fire-breathing monster tucked into that PRISTINE 90 Coupe!
We have rebuilt our 92 LTx race car twice in the past 12 years, very expensive, but very exciting. We are in the middle of rebuilding our daily driver 1991 Coupe as we speak (also using a SuperRam!). Aiming for the road 19 September. I may post details after the smoke clears for the benefit of others, but it has been an odyssey for sure!
ONE LAST NOTE: With all that power, if you haven't already, part with a little more coin for improved brake calipers, steel brake lines, and a full flush and bleed with new brake fluid. You'll need that with the dragon you're going to let loose.
SECOND LAST NOTE: I assume you are running 91-93 octane at 10.8 Static compression ratio. I don't know your quench distance, but one suggestion I received (too late for me to use it) to reduce chance of detonation was to coat the valve faces and piston faces with an anti-heat coating to reduce combustion chamber temperatures. I have no idea of the cost or efficacy of this (it was too late for me, so I didn't thoroughly investigate), but you might want to discuss it with your engine builder if your calculations indicate it might be an issue.
Cheers and safe motoring!
M
Last edited by Masterspykiller; 09-09-2014 at 12:06 PM. Reason: correct error
09-09-2014, 01:04 PM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Cypher85
Sorry to hear about the long road to your current build.
As a non-professional road racer, auto-x'er and C4 Corvette daily driver, I can personally attest that I have found an absolutely certain, no-fail way to make a small fortune racing cars (or building killer street machines): Start with a large fortune.
I guess you can second that!
Your 383 build sounds wonderful. I can't comment on cams, they're too damned complicated for me! However, it sounds like you got a fire-breathing monster tucked into that PRISTINE 90 Coupe!
We have rebuilt our 92 LTx race car twice in the past 12 years, very expensive, but very exciting. We are in the middle of rebuilding our daily driver 1991 Coupe as we speak (also using a SuperRam!). Aiming for the road 19 September. I may post details after the smoke clears for the benefit of others, but it has been an odyssey for sure!
ONE LAST NOTE: With all that power, if you haven't already, part with a little more coin for improved brake calipers, steel brake lines, and a full flush and bleed with new brake fluid. You'll need that with the dragon you're going to let loose.
SECOND LAST NOTE: I assume you are running 91-93 octane at 10.8 Static compression ratio. I don't know your quench distance, but one suggestion I received (too late for me to use it) to reduce chance of detonation was to coat the valve faces and piston faces with an anti-heat coating to reduce combustion chamber temperatures. I have no idea of the cost or efficacy of this (it was too late for me, so I didn't thoroughly investigate), but you might want to discuss it with your engine builder if your calculations indicate it might be an issue.
Cheers and safe motoring!
M
Sorry to hear about the long road to your current build.
As a non-professional road racer, auto-x'er and C4 Corvette daily driver, I can personally attest that I have found an absolutely certain, no-fail way to make a small fortune racing cars (or building killer street machines): Start with a large fortune.
I guess you can second that!
Your 383 build sounds wonderful. I can't comment on cams, they're too damned complicated for me! However, it sounds like you got a fire-breathing monster tucked into that PRISTINE 90 Coupe!
We have rebuilt our 92 LTx race car twice in the past 12 years, very expensive, but very exciting. We are in the middle of rebuilding our daily driver 1991 Coupe as we speak (also using a SuperRam!). Aiming for the road 19 September. I may post details after the smoke clears for the benefit of others, but it has been an odyssey for sure!
ONE LAST NOTE: With all that power, if you haven't already, part with a little more coin for improved brake calipers, steel brake lines, and a full flush and bleed with new brake fluid. You'll need that with the dragon you're going to let loose.
SECOND LAST NOTE: I assume you are running 91-93 octane at 10.8 Static compression ratio. I don't know your quench distance, but one suggestion I received (too late for me to use it) to reduce chance of detonation was to coat the valve faces and piston faces with an anti-heat coating to reduce combustion chamber temperatures. I have no idea of the cost or efficacy of this (it was too late for me, so I didn't thoroughly investigate), but you might want to discuss it with your engine builder if your calculations indicate it might be an issue.
Cheers and safe motoring!
M
Sounds like you have been tinkering for a while! I have been auto crossing for the last 9 years and have had a blast doing it. The strip is a recent thing for me, one that I love and look forward to learning from. I do track my 90 but it is a driver first. I have plans to upgrade the roll bar, leaf springs, and shocks. Unfortunately bilstein does not revalve the fx3 shocks anymore.. I have called about rebuilding them. So I will probably just get sport bilsteins and have them valved to my liking. I am eyeing the banski kit for trailing arms, toe rods, and camber rods. It all takes money!
https://banskimotorsports.com/C4_Rear_Suspensioin.html
Sound advice about the brakes. i have been flirting with the idea of going with a wilwood system. I need to do more research before I pull the trigger on them. I am never going to cage the 90. She is too pretty and I enjoy driving it on the street too much for that. I will probably build a dedicated track car in the future.
Thanks for the compliments! It has been a labor of love and ample amounts of blood, sweat, and tears have been shed over it. But in the end I think it is all worth it. This is one of my passions and I get more enjoyment out of it than the money I put in it.
Yes please feel free to post details about what you are up too. I am curious! I have discussed quench with my builder. They seem to think it is not as much of a big concern as everyone thinks..
I can certainly bring up the coating next time I am over there. I will be using 93 octane and will have a buttoned down tune from a great tuner. I have spent the last couple weeks contemplating what to do about my base manifold. The porting has done it very well but it is still weak in comparison to my heads. I think I will just go with what I have and drive the car for a while, then later, maybe next year figure out what I want to do with it. I have been talking to cuisineartvette about a FIRST base and doing some custom made runners to connect the plenum. Or I may just go with an aftermarket base and have it ported; they seem to do well. Who knows lots of options.
Thanks for the post!
09-09-2014, 01:47 PM
#10
Safety Car
Good point. I'm aware of the dual pattern seat time. Heh it was late when I posted, but you are right! I will go back and correct that. Thanks for pointing that out. So you use his cams to? This forum seldom mentions him. I know the lpe is a proven cam, I just think there are better options available. I believe a guy like Mike can get you something better for a chosen combination/application.
Thanks for the compliment!
Thanks for the compliment!
Just on a side note the pistons you are using (DSS SX series) have a D shaped dish (almost a reverse dome) that is meant to maximized the positive effects of quench and would be best utilized if your quench ends up in the .038 to .045 range.
The camshaft you now have has plenty of duration (280*) for 10.8SCR on 93 octane IMO. I personally wouldn't be afraid to to run as much as 11.25 SCR as long as the tune is spot on and the owner/driver understands that they need to pay a little attention to the coolant temp gauge and heat soak before beating on the engine..
However your previous Comp XFI 268 is a little small for that much compression.. espc with hyper pistons and that's probally why it broke a ring land. You would have been better off if it stayed around 10.25 to 10.5 SCR on that cam.
Good luck with the new build. I'm betting it will perform well right off and anything you do later to open up the lower manifold and runners will just make it that much better.
Will
09-09-2014, 02:09 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
I am looking forward to running his cam. Everyone says the same thing about him! The 268 was actually running at 10.1 SCR with my old heads. It had a lot of carbon buildup on top of the pistons when I did the head swap. Looked like there was some oil washing by the piston edges as well.
this was 25k miles after the original rebuild.
After further inspection of the heads, the guides were pretty bad. I think perhaps the pistons had failed at this point also. When I swapped the heads and intake and hydrolocked the damn think it must have been the last nail in the coffin. Now I'll have fresh components and cylinder walls.
Thanks again
this was 25k miles after the original rebuild.
After further inspection of the heads, the guides were pretty bad. I think perhaps the pistons had failed at this point also. When I swapped the heads and intake and hydrolocked the damn think it must have been the last nail in the coffin. Now I'll have fresh components and cylinder walls.
Thanks again
Last edited by cypher85; 09-09-2014 at 02:19 PM.
09-09-2014, 02:14 PM
#12
Team Owner
Do they even sell the SR anymore? I can't even get gaskets for it from ACCEL as the TB is discontinued.
09-09-2014, 02:21 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
They stopped selling the SR years ago. Classifieds and ebay is your only bet. The BBK tb I have works perfectly. If you need a gasket for the tb, I am sure a BBK gasket will work fine. Or any other tb gasket, you will just have to trim it to work.
09-09-2014, 02:27 PM
#14
Team Owner
Lingenfelter still sells a gasket set for it. I purchased one from them a month ago, it is waiting to go on the car.
They stopped selling the SR years ago. Classifieds and ebay is your only bet. The BBK tb I have works perfectly. If you need a gasket for the tb, I am sure a BBK gasket will work fine. Or any other tb gasket, you will just have to trim it to work.
They stopped selling the SR years ago. Classifieds and ebay is your only bet. The BBK tb I have works perfectly. If you need a gasket for the tb, I am sure a BBK gasket will work fine. Or any other tb gasket, you will just have to trim it to work.
09-09-2014, 02:40 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
I orginally put the accel gaskets on when I installed the superram. Now the lpe gaskets will be going on. I hope they seal as well. The gasket material between the runners that goes between the plenum and runner is gone with the lpe gaskets. It has gasket material around both ports. Made by Mr. Gasket
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L2 00095000&Category_Code=C46
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L2 00095000&Category_Code=C46
09-09-2014, 08:58 PM
#16
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: altered state
Posts: 81,242
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St. Jude Donor '05
Car looks clean Cypher youll enjoy it. Theres more on the table when you get bored as you already know! Curious to see how it runs as its not a typical SR combo. Intake lobe is def aggressive
Theres a lot of debate on the big/small SR cam subject lets see how Mikes idea pans out in comparison
On gaskets Im having some Superram, TB kit, oversized TPI and some copper "singles" header gaskets made still waiting to find the tooling/startup costs.Some of these are still available but the quality is well....
They will be made of a much nicer material than the water jet paper stuff we get now. Initial cost will be pricy as these will be tool stamped
but worth it as they wont fall apart.
Any other disc. gaskets that are hard to get for the C4...let me know and Ill add it to the list guys.
Theres a lot of debate on the big/small SR cam subject lets see how Mikes idea pans out in comparison
On gaskets Im having some Superram, TB kit, oversized TPI and some copper "singles" header gaskets made still waiting to find the tooling/startup costs.Some of these are still available but the quality is well....
They will be made of a much nicer material than the water jet paper stuff we get now. Initial cost will be pricy as these will be tool stamped
but worth it as they wont fall apart.
Any other disc. gaskets that are hard to get for the C4...let me know and Ill add it to the list guys.
Last edited by cv67; 09-09-2014 at 09:00 PM.
09-09-2014, 09:12 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Car looks clean Cypher youll enjoy it. Theres more on the table when you get bored as you already know! Curious to see how it runs as its not a typical SR combo. Intake lobe is def aggressive
Theres a lot of debate on the big/small SR cam subject lets see how Mikes idea pans out in comparison
On gaskets Im having some Superram, TB kit, oversized TPI and some copper "singles" header gaskets made still waiting to find the tooling/startup costs.Some of these are still available but the quality is well....
They will be made of a much nicer material than the water jet paper stuff we get now. Initial cost will be pricy as these will be tool stamped
but worth it as they wont fall apart.
Any other disc. gaskets that are hard to get for the C4...let me know and Ill add it to the list guys.
Theres a lot of debate on the big/small SR cam subject lets see how Mikes idea pans out in comparison
On gaskets Im having some Superram, TB kit, oversized TPI and some copper "singles" header gaskets made still waiting to find the tooling/startup costs.Some of these are still available but the quality is well....
They will be made of a much nicer material than the water jet paper stuff we get now. Initial cost will be pricy as these will be tool stamped
but worth it as they wont fall apart.
Any other disc. gaskets that are hard to get for the C4...let me know and Ill add it to the list guys.
When you get a working gasket set let me know. I'm sure I'll be needing them in the future!
A big thank you for all your help with my manifold. I think if I need anything ported in the future I'll send it to you. As you know, that porting stuff takes so much time to do right. When done right great gains can be had.
Last edited by cypher85; 09-09-2014 at 09:15 PM.
09-10-2014, 01:32 AM
#18
Race Director
I orginally put the accel gaskets on when I installed the superram. Now the lpe gaskets will be going on. I hope they seal as well. The gasket material between the runners that goes between the plenum and runner is gone with the lpe gaskets. It has gasket material around both ports. Made by Mr. Gasket
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C46
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C46
09-10-2014, 03:54 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: WAY UPSTATE NY
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You will like the Super Ram it is worth the effort.I went conservative on my cam for street manners and driveability.
I too had to use the LPE set..Used vasilene on both sides of al gaskets..no leaks at all. Some guys slot the runner to plenum bolts.I studded my plenum and used Kep nuts on the bottom of the runner flanges.
I too had to use the LPE set..Used vasilene on both sides of al gaskets..no leaks at all. Some guys slot the runner to plenum bolts.I studded my plenum and used Kep nuts on the bottom of the runner flanges.
09-11-2014, 12:29 AM
#20
Instructor
Two dumb newbie questions
383Vett and Nutz4C4:
I am installing a SR this weekend for my new build too. I have read Vader86's and TEAMZR1's detailed instructions for installing the SR. However, I am a midnight mechanic by necessity, so I don't know all the short hand lingo.
QUESTION ONE:
What is VHT? I understand the concept (adhesive sealant on one side of the gasket, non-adhesive sealant on the other), but I have no idea what VHT is.
QUESTION TWO:
Precisely how do you "stud" the bolts in the SR (and which ones)? I have read this suggestion before and even saw an image, but I really could not figure out what was done to what. I apologize for my abysmal lack of understanding, but I am extremely grateful for your guidance.
Thanks in advance,
M
I am installing a SR this weekend for my new build too. I have read Vader86's and TEAMZR1's detailed instructions for installing the SR. However, I am a midnight mechanic by necessity, so I don't know all the short hand lingo.
QUESTION ONE:
What is VHT? I understand the concept (adhesive sealant on one side of the gasket, non-adhesive sealant on the other), but I have no idea what VHT is.
QUESTION TWO:
Precisely how do you "stud" the bolts in the SR (and which ones)? I have read this suggestion before and even saw an image, but I really could not figure out what was done to what. I apologize for my abysmal lack of understanding, but I am extremely grateful for your guidance.
Thanks in advance,
M