Robey5

All:

Rebuilding my motor. Next items to buy are rod brearings; main bearings; and piston rings. I am not certain that the dealership is the best bang for the buck ($300 for the full ring set) and I would like to know brands that y'all have used, and part numbers I can reference when I order from Summit, or Jegs or whomever...

Your reccomendations?

SPD DMN

For the piston rings, get a set matched to your pistons. Stay away from the total seal type rings and stick with a good file fit ring. I used the Childs and Albert rings on my last rebuild.

I also used the Clevite 77 rod, main, and cam bearings.

Sharky Guam

Did you determine the reason why you spun a main bearing?
:crazy:

Robey5

No oil situation. There was a long thread about it a while ago. Got a filter with correct size, but wrong thread pitch. Did oil change, ran it for 10 minutes to warm the engine, brought on to main road to open her up, and blew the incorrect oil filter off; with all 4.5 qt of oil. poopie happens, what can I say. The A-zone worker who steered me in the wrong direction no longer works there. This happened about 1.25 years ago, and here I sit with a paid for toy...that looks nice but is in pieces.

So, now, I was going to use the stock pistons; should I not be doing this? I will not be machining if I do not have to. I am not overly crazy about replacing the pistons with aftermarket, because the pistons that I have are good, as far as I can see. Not only that, if I have a good set of pistons, why should I replace with an aftermarket set that I am unsure of the material properties (etc)...being very cautious of what I buy. More opinions??
I think that I am going to use the cleavite bearings...

SPD DMN

So the bearings are toast, but did not spin? If you are planning on just replacing the bearings and nothing else, then why change pistons rings? Stock LT1 pistons use a funky size ring if memory serves me correctly.

You probably want to repolish the crank bearing journals and measure to see what size best suites the journals for the bearings. You may want to use an oversized bearing. Or simply get a new crank.

Robey5

Block is done for, nice tint of blue in the area where the main bearing spun. Opend it up, quite a bit, as well.

I am working with a low milage shortblock. I am rebuilding, just cause...I am there right now, so I may as well replace bearings, clean the block, etc, etc...
what would a matched piston/ring set cost me...(prepairing for the dent in the pocket....)

SPD DMN

You can get a nice set of J&E SRP forged pistons (#138081) for ~$450 plus $100 for a ring set. You would also have to bore the cylinders out to +.030. This is not an expensive machine process either. These would up the compression a tad from 10.2:1 to 11:1.

If you went with new pistons though you would also want to rebalance the rotating assembly. Just more money.

f you want to do it on a budget, just get replacement rings from GM along with their bearing set. That would be the most simple and probably the cheapest way to do it.

Robey5

Well. I have been told that I can get the same thing from an aftermarket set up on the bearings and rings... I am just noncommital, I guess! I really want faster, but I am not sure about the major effects...

More opinions?

VQT88Vette

Is there a reason you don't recommend total seal ring?

Thanks,

SPD DMN

I had some issues that I could attribute to the rings. A buddy with the same setup had similar problems. It had to do with excessive crankcase pressure.

vader86

get some forged pistons, with a set of moly rings
use Clevite 77 bearings

Robey5

I really REALLY didn't want to replace the pistons. Question: what advantage would the forged pistons do for me, any way? Lighter? stronger? Higher compression ratio? Hate to be devil's advocate; but wouldn't the GM engineers use a forged piston if it was the best, most cost effective solution???

I too am an engineer, and there was a reason why the parts were put where they were...but no ones perfect??!! :confused:

SPD DMN

If you don't plan on doing a power adder (Nitrous, Blower, Turbo), then they are not necessary. If you are going to change the pistons anyway though, I would spring the extra money for a set of forged ones though.

Robey5

Any reason to not use OE I would consider, but I am not clear what advantage that I would gain here...

No bottle, no sooper charger will be added...

gtsyellow

that is just CRAZY for OE rings, the GM rings are basically the same as the entry level $20/set hastings rings. whatever brand you buy i'd pick up plasma-moly as it really inceases the amount of abuse the top ring can take. a normal iron top ring will break if you try to twist it, moly won't. in high cyl heat/pressure enviroments the moly ring won't fail like normal cast. hastings makes a nice ring for the $ and is sold under the summit brand for $79.95 if i remember right. if your wanting to get some milage & keep oil burning down a normal 5/64 5/64 piston is probably smart also. ross, wiseco and JE make some of the strongest pistons on the market but they also require a bit more wall clearance. if your staying under 350-400hp a high quality hyperutectic piston should hold up fine for a long time + you can run them very tight. the best bang for the buck i found in a forged piston are the 4 valve relief speed-pros, summit has them for $227/set {3.48" stroke, presspin}. they also don't expand as much as the super strong pistons so you can keep a nice tight wall clearance. other things to consider are this. re working your stock rods will cost about $100+$40 for bolts. a set of eagle I beams with bolts brand new will cost about $200 off ebay or if you don't want to go that way email me & i'll give you a source. your crank will cost $100-120 to do a 10/10 cut and ecno polish. for $199 you can buy a scat 9000 replacement crank that's made out of cast STEEL not iron. it's knife edged and somewhat polished out of the box. the point of all this is basically saying with the parts available these days there's no reason to re-use old stuff. also for the love of god get some good manley valves {like the pro-flo} & a 3 angle valve job if your going to re-use your D-port heads.

NanoBrain

First off, get those cylinder bores & pistons measured, if they’re still within factory clearance spec, reuse 'em! I also recommend Moly Rings, however, they need to be close to the OEM Ring set weight. Once you start deviating from OEM part weights, you’re looking at a balance job$$$! Measure the Crank journals, if in spec I would just get a set of OEM Bearings. I may be wrong but I believe the Clevite 77H/P Bearings have a large radii relief area for performance Crankshafts?

And Holy friggin crap-ola, how much does that dealership want for Chevy Rings, shop around, you should get ‘em for a fraction of that price. Try Jeff at Superior Chevrolet, I think he’s 18CARFAN on the CVFourm. Or try Jim Pace Pontiac (330)-652-5855

:crazy:NanoBrain:crazy:


[Modified by NanoBrain, 11:18 AM 8/16/2002]

Robey5

Bought the clevite77 bearing set, cam main and rod. One down.

I also have been looking around. The nodular iron crank, well, I am sure is cast. Are the properties of a cast steel crank more appropriate than the nodular iron?

I am all about being cost effective, but I am not sure that the current crank will even need to be re-surfaced...

I really want my vette to be a turn-key when it is done, so; the more reliable parts; the better. I am not saying that the original equipment is the best but, the more aftermarket I get, the less of a turnkey it becomes, I want it to drive, not to be constantly worked on, like it has in the past...

gtsyellow- how often are you under the hood? (I don't count normal maintnence) Major fixes, not putting washer fluid in the car...

gtsyellow

how often? oh i haven't really kept track but i have pulled out my transmission & blown engine, spent a lot of time researching what works & doesn't. i spend a lot of time at the track & around people who know what they are doing. most the advice i was giving is based on it, your stock crank will be able to take all the HP you throw at it on a ecno rebuild. the only real advantage of a $200 scat is it's all done out of the box. however that only applies if your doing a real rebuild. if your just trying to freshen up the engine and everything is within spec all you really need are bearings and piston rings. the $20 hastings cast iron rings are basically very similar to what GM uses and could stay within balance.

Robey5

Thank you. That was what I was looking for. Though, I do appreciate the input on the build. If I am going to have to resurface the crank, at that time, I will decide if it will be more beneficial to go to the steel. I would prefer the forged version, which would be rather expensive ($624, to be exact). I am doing a semi-econo build, with little noise makers along the way. I am going to grab a LT4 hotcam, and fire that in the mix. I don't want to over modify the car, but chances are, now, that I will keep it "forever." I will be buying a C5 in the next year as well. What I am trying to say is that I will be doing some mods, but not a ton...because the dollars per smile don't equate with this car.....

Where can I grab these Hastings rings? Are they the ones that A-zone has??? Or-- would I buy from summit?

sinistervette

Robey5,
Don't waste your money on a "steel" crank. Even if your stock crank has some scratches or is worn, polishing or turning is all you need! I've just bought my first vette, and I'm looking forward to being involved in the "vette world"! I've been building and racing(stock car & dragstrip) my own cars since I was 15. I've never had lots of money, but have had some very respectable cars. Your idea of a budget motor, is exactly what I build. You can reuse your stock pistons, and hasting rings are excellant for the $. The other guys are right on with clevite bearings! Gr8 choice! Use your money on upgrades that would otherwise not be had if you bought a steel crank. Keep in mind, that the legendary, high winding 302, first came out as a small journal, "cast" crank. They were very durable, as well as your stock one is! I've got a large journal, 335" small block, stock cast crank, 11.5-1 compression, brodix -8 heads(home ported) bowtie intake, $79 TRW camshaft I.597 E.583 lift I276 E264 dur @ .050 solid lifters, stock 5.7" rods(I've polished/deburred the beams) with ARP rod bolts, homebuilt holley 750mainbody/ 850 baseplate. This motor dyno'd 583hp 8200rpm/ 464 ft/lbs torque 5100rpm!! This is my peanut! It was built by me, mostly from swapmeet parts, for under $1700. The most expensive single item was the heads(swap meet) $725! I've run this motor for 3 seasons in my late model stock car, and have had no problems. I generally come out of the corners at 6200rpm, and peak at 8000, with a 8200rpm limit chip. Lots of people are non believers, but I've had gr8 luck with "chevy" parts, and enjoy beating or running with the big $ boys for peanuts! Good luck on your rebuild, hopefully I'll cross paths with you(I'm in Holland mi.).