tequilaboy

Here's an example log to show what can be done with the ol' 165 ecm with appropriate hardware and tuning...42 lb. injectors (60 psi), Blowerworks maf, WBO2, etc.

Car is a Procharged 86 corvette with 383, superram, 4" core intercooler, 3.73, 4l80e auto (not mine, but similar).

Signals (top to bottom):
LV8
rpm
speed (mph)
MAF (gm/sec)
MAF air temperature (°F)
Target AFR (red) WB02 (green)

cursor location selected for readability, not to highlight peak values. enjoy.

Note: 60-130 time was approx 9.5 seconds, however throttle was not wot until 80 mph or so (ramp input from 54 mph over 4 seconds). Not bad for a C4.

FrankieD

Seems that MAF temperature started at about 60 deg F and peaked at almost 120 deg F during that short time. Is this considered a bit too high? perhaps a good candidate for Meth injection??

bjankuski

AFR is perfectly on target and MAF readings are in the 400's looks good.

tequilaboy

Good question. The IAT is a bit higher than I'd like to see, but still within reason for pump fuel in use. There are already provisions in place in the tune to pull timing as a function of IAT to keep it safe from detonation. I forgot to mention ambient in the original post, but you can see it in the data as described.

Might pick up some hp with water/methanol injection...but not my call.

If it was my car, I'd be more inclined to run a mid level E85/premium fuel blend say E30-E40 and call it good. This particular car is in California, so I'm not sure if E85 is readily available for blending.

Target AFR is setup for E10, so it may appear a bit rich, but that is intentional.

We"ll need to get some more data at higher ambient air temps in order to determine worst case and go from there.

I think that a larger blower pulley would reduce the IATs and still maintain the current airflow. Its a bit choked now by the intercooler (making about 15 psi upstream). The p600b isn't the most efficient compressor, and its being overdriven somewhat with the current pulley.

FrankieD

Yes, this will explain the higher IAT. would love to see this build details further , any link to this vehicle?

tequilaboy

Here is some additional vehicle info:

***1986 Corvette ***

Engine: 383
Supercharger: model # P600B, P/N: 1GB21210 I
4” core intercooler

Superram Intake: Baseplate/Plenum/Runners, P/N 77131
Aeromotive: Fuel Pump Stealth 340
Lingenfelter Headers: Stainless Steel with smog devices

AFR 195cc Street Heads: angle plug w/heat riser, 68cc combustion chamber
Throttle-Body: BBK 58mm E.O. # D-245-9
Camshaft: P/N: 08-301-8 Lift: Intake = 0.503”,
Exhaust = 0.520”, Duration: 224/236 @ .050, Lobe Separation Angle: 113

Heated O2 sensor, PLX WBO2

Crankshaft: 4340 forged steel, spec. # 4-350-3750-5700-L
4 Bolt block with 2 piece rear main seal.
Rod Set-4340 forged steel, P/N: 2-ICR5700-7/16
Ring Set: Speed Pro P/N: R-9902 030
12344 Probe Piston Dish 20cc forged P/N: 222
Roller Rocker Arm: P/N: 3060 Blue Racer 1.5 3/8 stud
Roller Valve Lifters: P/N: HL-2148
Push Rod set: P/N: COMP Cams Magnum Pushrods 7608-16

Torque Converter: 10/12" lockup, 2700/2800 stall
Transmission: 4L80E automatic with overdrive, compushift trans controller
Rear End: 3.73:1 Dana Gears
Tire: Rear 315-35-ZR17

Coincidentally, this is pretty similar to my own car. Notable exceptions: mine's an 88 4+3, w-350, flat top icon pistons, 65 cc AFR heads, Comp 503 on 112 lsa, Powerdyne BD-11A.

FrankieD

Thanks for the info. Any dyno or 1/4 mile results?

STEVEN13

tequilaboy

The owner has claimed that it made 530 rwhp.

383vett

Not knocking the build, but 60-130 in 9.5 seconds is not very fast. I know you said that wot was not achieved immediately but 9.5 seconds equates to a 12 second run. I would expect a car with a blower and a built motor to be quicker.

tequilaboy

Realistically, this car should trap around 120 mph.

From other logs, 60-120 takes about 7 seconds at WOT. Assuming ~4 sec 0-60 with traction and rollout, I'd say 11.0 at 120 mph is plausible. I think the car could use more compression and more overlap, but it is meeting expectations for the current configuration.

This thread is more about tuning than build or performance benchmarks, but I understand that those topics are always interesting to discuss and still relevant.

Some highlights present in this tune:

• 300% MAF range
• 150% Load range
• Load based PE fueling
• 6400 rpm main spark table
• IAT spark compensation
• WBO2 signal input to ecm and integrated into datastream

FrankieD

The cam specs should be 224/236 @ 113 LSA. This would have about 4 degrees overlap, which in my opinion suits this application perfectly. My belief is that this setup should be trapping anywhere between 126-128 MPH. You are correct that it's not about the build as we all have our own approach to performance goals.. but rather the discussion as to how it is possible to tune these setups with original ecm. Awesome discussion thanks for sharing.

dizwiz24

the p600b is essentially the same blower as a p1-sc, just with a lousier step up ratio.

its a good design. ive heard some people say its better to have a slightly smaller blower on kill mode vs. a bigger one loping along never really working hard (a ysi, for example). you'll hear theories both ways.

oddly enough the corvette p600b's (usually always polished housing) have a 3.35:1 step up ratio vs. 3.05:1 p600b's for other 'kits'.

ive heard people say that oil fed blowers are more forgiving to over-revs and hold up better vs. self-contained units.

the p600b intercooler is highly restrictive and practically '.worthless'.

i remember using the throttle body to rev the engine, and watch the rubber elbows inflate like a balloon due to all the restriction in the core.

383tpimachine

The nice thing about a big supercharger at lower levels is a cooler charge temp pre cooler. I hit max blower rpm at 7,000 rpm. I am shifting at 65-6700 and seeing less boost than many. Plan to raise redline to 7500 and overdrive the blower. Turns out they play it really safe on max rpm and many are spinning them to near 90k.

Yes any blower kit IC setup for these cars are trash. I had to do some tricky **** to get a good A2A and still run meth.

dizwiz24

yeah some of what i posted is internet hearsay (from c5 forced induction).

i also forgot to mentio p600b is noisy as all get go at idle. im not sure i like the noise. on the road, you dont notice the noise

i want to hear how you Are able to run an air to air intercooler and meth?

is there benefit to the weight/ expense of an intercooler and meth?

i am making 12 psi at 6000 rpm on my 93 lt1 (p600b). i am only using meth/water iniection.

ive always wonderedd if there would there be benefit to the expense and work of adding an air to air intrrcooler in addition to the meth injection.

if you have done any experiments. with iat measurements, before and after the intercooler i would love to hear.

383tpimachine

I have a gen1 sbc with a YSi with a 3inch blower and 8inch crank. spinning to 6500 should be around 17lbs of boost but my ecu only reads to 2bar so not sure on exact number but over 210kpa.

I have a rather large IC. 28x8x3 bell core. On the dyno temp was 85* outside. With just the IC I would see 102* after 1 run. 120* after 3 back to back. Never went higher. No knock. Added meth for a safety net. 2- 15gph nozzles set at 4 on my programmer out of 10. upped the timing 2 degrees. Still no knock. Left it there. My build is very safe with my cam and CR. Should like a decent size shot of nitrous.

Being in South Texas I will drive the car on 110* days so meth will help then for sure as the IC will heat soak off the road but I would have no issues running the car on just A2A and backing the timing back down a bit.

88BlackZ-51

What was the tq?