Amsoil synchromesh am I right for 5w30
03-01-2017, 08:51 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Amsoil synchromesh am I right for 5w30
Hello guys I've bought few qt of amsoil synchromesh, cause i want try fill ZF with it...
Just there's no mention of its weight 5w30 anywhere on the bottle, supposed the amsoil synchro is made only In 5w30?
Just there's no mention of its weight 5w30 anywhere on the bottle, supposed the amsoil synchro is made only In 5w30?
03-01-2017, 09:11 AM
#3
5W-30 is only mentioned in the "advertising schemes" - the actual viscosity properties get very complicated. Once you absorb and translate into "layman terminology" you can be reasonably assured it's what you intended! In their newer application guides it's also referred to as 5W-30
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf
ON THE BOTTLE - NOWHERE!!!
You only need to be concerned that NOW it references the GM 1052931 and the correct GM SPEC - I don't believe that it always has. When did it change? I've no idea. I've never used it.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf
ON THE BOTTLE - NOWHERE!!!
You only need to be concerned that NOW it references the GM 1052931 and the correct GM SPEC - I don't believe that it always has. When did it change? I've no idea. I've never used it.
Last edited by WVZR-1; 03-01-2017 at 09:16 AM.
03-01-2017, 09:23 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
5W-30 is only mentioned in the "advertising schemes" - the actual viscosity properties get very complicated. Once you absorb and translate into "layman terminology" you can be reasonably assured it's what you intended! In their newer application guides it's also referred to as 5W-30
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf
ON THE BOTTLE - NOWHERE!!!
You only need to be concerned that NOW it references the GM 1052931 and the correct GM SPEC - I don't believe that it always has. When did it change? I've no idea. I've never used it.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf
ON THE BOTTLE - NOWHERE!!!
You only need to be concerned that NOW it references the GM 1052931 and the correct GM SPEC - I don't believe that it always has. When did it change? I've no idea. I've never used it.
I can say, that this oil seems to be less viscous than redline MTL
Last edited by Christi@n; 03-01-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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Christi@n (03-02-2017)
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Christi@n (03-02-2017)
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Rico Muñeco (10-28-2019)
03-02-2017, 11:31 AM
#10
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...brand-new.html
03-02-2017, 12:36 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
I believe you mean VENT and NO I DON'T BELIEVE PRACTICAL or maybe even POSSIBLE!! The vent is a banjo type affair.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...brand-new.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...brand-new.html
I've forgotten of its shape... Dispstick wont moves there...
Anyway think filling could be possible
Last edited by Christi@n; 03-02-2017 at 12:38 PM.
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Rico Muñeco (10-28-2019)
03-02-2017, 06:30 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Yes that's the right fluid, and yes it would be nice to have 5w30 somewhere on the label. But the GM spec numbers are there so you're fine (1052931 or 12345349).
This is how I refill the ZF6 fluid: get a piece of tubing about 4 feet long, mine is 1/2" diameter. Open the hood and slide the hose down between the firewall and the engine on the passenger side. Get underneath the car -- which is securely supported on jack stands -- and feed the end of the hose into the transmission fill hole. Make sure it's inside several inches or it could slip out and make a mess (that is what she said). Using a funnel, pour the fluid into the top of the hose in the engine bay and it will flow into the transmission. Super easy.
A second pair of hands is helpful - they pour the fluid and you yell at them when it's full.
This is how I refill the ZF6 fluid: get a piece of tubing about 4 feet long, mine is 1/2" diameter. Open the hood and slide the hose down between the firewall and the engine on the passenger side. Get underneath the car -- which is securely supported on jack stands -- and feed the end of the hose into the transmission fill hole. Make sure it's inside several inches or it could slip out and make a mess (that is what she said). Using a funnel, pour the fluid into the top of the hose in the engine bay and it will flow into the transmission. Super easy.
A second pair of hands is helpful - they pour the fluid and you yell at them when it's full.
Last edited by DGXR; 03-02-2017 at 06:32 PM.
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Christi@n (03-03-2017)
03-02-2017, 07:01 PM
#13
Race Director
not recommended by gm. on 'another bmw application' it might be recommended bc its whats available in europe.
he11 for all you know the bmw 850i owners, with zf6, probably flock to a chevy dealer to get gm syncromesh.
the grass always seems greener on the other side to everyone i guess
a 5w-30 based manual transmission fluid (original pn) discontinued and superceded by gm syncromesh is the recommend fluid for zf6 by chevrolet
he11 for all you know the bmw 850i owners, with zf6, probably flock to a chevy dealer to get gm syncromesh.
the grass always seems greener on the other side to everyone i guess
a 5w-30 based manual transmission fluid (original pn) discontinued and superceded by gm syncromesh is the recommend fluid for zf6 by chevrolet
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Christi@n (03-03-2017)
03-02-2017, 07:07 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
I have read many times from many reliable sources that the original GM synchromesh fluid used in these transmissions was a Texaco/Havoline motor oil 5w30, but the additives were tweaked for compatibility with the brass synchros.
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Christi@n (03-03-2017)
03-02-2017, 07:38 PM
#15
not recommended by gm. on 'another bmw application' it might be recommended bc its whats available in europe.
he11 for all you know the bmw 850i owners, with zf6, probably flock to a chevy dealer to get gm syncromesh.
the grass always seems greener on the other side to everyone i guess
a 5w-30 based manual transmission fluid (original pn) discontinued and superceded by gm syncromesh is the recommend fluid for zf6 by chevrolet
he11 for all you know the bmw 850i owners, with zf6, probably flock to a chevy dealer to get gm syncromesh.
the grass always seems greener on the other side to everyone i guess
a 5w-30 based manual transmission fluid (original pn) discontinued and superceded by gm syncromesh is the recommend fluid for zf6 by chevrolet
I've had nothing but good experiences with the Castrol and nothing but problems with amsoil.
Where did you read that it eats synchros? I have never heard or read that.
03-02-2017, 09:51 PM
#16
Race Director
i heard about all these people raving about it (the castrol tws 10w-60 from bmw dealerships). claims of smoother shifting, etc.
i had just put in a short throw hurst shifter (which is a high quality piece but shorter throws always makes the shift effort a little heavier - even a little notchier).
the new short throw shifter worked fine with the stock fluid.
so the story goes i put in the castrol tws 10w-60 and headed 60 miles to the dragstrip.
right away, i noticed i had to hunt for the right gear during gear changes or else would get a grind when i moved the shift lever (with clutch pedal fully depressed of course).
at the dragstrip, high rpm drag race shifting, was so bad the lever wouldnt physically move into the next gear. i knew where the gear was , but couldnt 'get it in there' - so i had to abort the drag runs.
i contacted zfdoc And he suggested my synchros were shot and recommended a rebuild at a cost of thousands of dollars. i did not tell him about the castrol 10w-60 bc i did not yet draw that conclusion.
i thought about the situation and realized i recently changed fluid.
so i changed it back to gm syncromesh (after finding the original 5w-30 manual trans fluid in my owners manuAl , had been discontinued) and, like magic, all the synchro problems disappeared.
the castrol fluid that came out was sparkly as it was full of copper flecks from the synchros.
contrast that to a recent changeout of gm syncromesh that came out where i could find maybe 2-3 copper flecks.
the discussion of this topic is kind of fascinating.
for many years people said i was nuts. but then other users came out and said that castrol didnt work in their trans either.
why can it work well in one persons zf6, but not anothers ?
Last edited by dizwiz24; 03-02-2017 at 09:57 PM.
03-03-2017, 11:34 AM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
its from my own experience on my 93 with a 'remanufactured for gm' blue tag zf6.
i heard about all these people raving about it (the castrol tws 10w-60 from bmw dealerships). claims of smoother shifting, etc.
i had just put in a short throw hurst shifter (which is a high quality piece but shorter throws always makes the shift effort a little heavier - even a little notchier).
the new short throw shifter worked fine with the stock fluid.
so the story goes i put in the castrol tws 10w-60 and headed 60 miles to the dragstrip.
right away, i noticed i had to hunt for the right gear during gear changes or else would get a grind when i moved the shift lever (with clutch pedal fully depressed of course).
at the dragstrip, high rpm drag race shifting, was so bad the lever wouldnt physically move into the next gear. i knew where the gear was , but couldnt 'get it in there' - so i had to abort the drag runs.
i contacted zfdoc And he suggested my synchros were shot and recommended a rebuild at a cost of thousands of dollars. i did not tell him about the castrol 10w-60 bc i did not yet draw that conclusion.
i thought about the situation and realized i recently changed fluid.
so i changed it back to gm syncromesh (after finding the original 5w-30 manual trans fluid in my owners manuAl , had been discontinued) and, like magic, all the synchro problems disappeared.
the castrol fluid that came out was sparkly as it was full of copper flecks from the synchros.
contrast that to a recent changeout of gm syncromesh that came out where i could find maybe 2-3 copper flecks.
the discussion of this topic is kind of fascinating.
for many years people said i was nuts. but then other users came out and said that castrol didnt work in their trans either.
why can it work well in one persons zf6, but not anothers ?
i heard about all these people raving about it (the castrol tws 10w-60 from bmw dealerships). claims of smoother shifting, etc.
i had just put in a short throw hurst shifter (which is a high quality piece but shorter throws always makes the shift effort a little heavier - even a little notchier).
the new short throw shifter worked fine with the stock fluid.
so the story goes i put in the castrol tws 10w-60 and headed 60 miles to the dragstrip.
right away, i noticed i had to hunt for the right gear during gear changes or else would get a grind when i moved the shift lever (with clutch pedal fully depressed of course).
at the dragstrip, high rpm drag race shifting, was so bad the lever wouldnt physically move into the next gear. i knew where the gear was , but couldnt 'get it in there' - so i had to abort the drag runs.
i contacted zfdoc And he suggested my synchros were shot and recommended a rebuild at a cost of thousands of dollars. i did not tell him about the castrol 10w-60 bc i did not yet draw that conclusion.
i thought about the situation and realized i recently changed fluid.
so i changed it back to gm syncromesh (after finding the original 5w-30 manual trans fluid in my owners manuAl , had been discontinued) and, like magic, all the synchro problems disappeared.
the castrol fluid that came out was sparkly as it was full of copper flecks from the synchros.
contrast that to a recent changeout of gm syncromesh that came out where i could find maybe 2-3 copper flecks.
the discussion of this topic is kind of fascinating.
for many years people said i was nuts. but then other users came out and said that castrol didnt work in their trans either.
why can it work well in one persons zf6, but not anothers ?
03-03-2017, 12:24 PM
#18
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05
Dont think theres any magic bullet esp for an old trans
Go to pep boys get some cheap pennzoil syncromesh and move on its only going to feel so good.
Wear is wear an expensive fluid wont change it
Go to pep boys get some cheap pennzoil syncromesh and move on its only going to feel so good.
Wear is wear an expensive fluid wont change it
03-03-2017, 05:35 PM
#19
(Q.) I just bought, at the local BMW dealership, 3 liters of the Castrol TWS 10W60 oil. I was surprised to see that it is motor oil. Not being a lubrication engineer myself, who did the investigation and determination that this product is compatible with and good for our ZF transmissions? Jim � Grand Sport Registry
(A.) Jim, the C4 Corvette ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission uses engine oil for lubrication. I was told by Jeff Henning, Warranty Administrator of ZF Industries North America, that Engineering of ZF Industries in Germany determined that the BMW imported Castrol (RS superseded by TWS) 10W-60 oil was the recommended alternative to the (GM P/N 1052931) factory-fill oil for use in the ZF S6-40 transmission. In effort to verify ZF Industries alternative lubricant recommendation, we ran our own test series on the BMW imported Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. Independent testing of the transmission oil samples was sub-contracted out to CTC Analytical Services. The test series went as follows:
<1> Spectrographic analysis indicated that it is has full synthetic composition.
<2> After 2 hours of operation, approximately 100 miles, oil sample analysis tests indicated that the viscosity rating was reduced from 60 down to a 43 level. No need to worry, this is a normal occurrence for this heavier type of oil. I attribute this to microscopic-level lubricant-strand trimming through operational loading where all of the oil contents has been passed through gear pressure-loading regions at least a few times.
<3> At 200 miles, the viscosity level stabilized at a 42 level viscosity since the 100 mile oil analysis test results.
<4> At 5000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 40 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 4% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent)
gap wear/mass measurements.
<5> At 10,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 39 level viscosity.
<6> At 12,500 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 37 level viscosity.
<7> At 15,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 34 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was again completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill 30 oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 17% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent) gap wear/mass measurements.
<8> At 15,000 miles the oil had enough phosphor-bronze particles suspended
in it that deposits began building up inside of the synchronizer sliding
sleeves from the normal centrifuge-like rotational occurrence.
In Conclusion, until someone invents a copper magnet, we recommend that the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission oil be changed at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals so as to minimize the amount of deposits of the suspended spent synchronizer material from collecting in critical component contact surface areas.
Bottom line, our zf6 was designed to run motor oil.
03-03-2017, 08:26 PM
#20
Race Director
(Q.) I just bought, at the local BMW dealership, 3 liters of the Castrol TWS 10W60 oil. I was surprised to see that it is motor oil. Not being a lubrication engineer myself, who did the investigation and determination that this product is compatible with and good for our ZF transmissions? Jim � Grand Sport Registry
(A.) Jim, the C4 Corvette ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission uses engine oil for lubrication. I was told by Jeff Henning, Warranty Administrator of ZF Industries North America, that Engineering of ZF Industries in Germany determined that the BMW imported Castrol (RS superseded by TWS) 10W-60 oil was the recommended alternative to the (GM P/N 1052931) factory-fill oil for use in the ZF S6-40 transmission. In effort to verify ZF Industries alternative lubricant recommendation, we ran our own test series on the BMW imported Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. Independent testing of the transmission oil samples was sub-contracted out to CTC Analytical Services. The test series went as follows:
<1> Spectrographic analysis indicated that it is has full synthetic composition.
<2> After 2 hours of operation, approximately 100 miles, oil sample analysis tests indicated that the viscosity rating was reduced from 60 down to a 43 level. No need to worry, this is a normal occurrence for this heavier type of oil. I attribute this to microscopic-level lubricant-strand trimming through operational loading where all of the oil contents has been passed through gear pressure-loading regions at least a few times.
<3> At 200 miles, the viscosity level stabilized at a 42 level viscosity since the 100 mile oil analysis test results.
<4> At 5000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 40 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 4% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent)
gap wear/mass measurements.
<5> At 10,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 39 level viscosity.
<6> At 12,500 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 37 level viscosity.
<7> At 15,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 34 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was again completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill 30 oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 17% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent) gap wear/mass measurements.
<8> At 15,000 miles the oil had enough phosphor-bronze particles suspended
in it that deposits began building up inside of the synchronizer sliding
sleeves from the normal centrifuge-like rotational occurrence.
In Conclusion, until someone invents a copper magnet, we recommend that the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission oil be changed at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals so as to minimize the amount of deposits of the suspended spent synchronizer material from collecting in critical component contact surface areas.
Bottom line, our zf6 was designed to run motor oil.
(A.) Jim, the C4 Corvette ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission uses engine oil for lubrication. I was told by Jeff Henning, Warranty Administrator of ZF Industries North America, that Engineering of ZF Industries in Germany determined that the BMW imported Castrol (RS superseded by TWS) 10W-60 oil was the recommended alternative to the (GM P/N 1052931) factory-fill oil for use in the ZF S6-40 transmission. In effort to verify ZF Industries alternative lubricant recommendation, we ran our own test series on the BMW imported Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. Independent testing of the transmission oil samples was sub-contracted out to CTC Analytical Services. The test series went as follows:
<1> Spectrographic analysis indicated that it is has full synthetic composition.
<2> After 2 hours of operation, approximately 100 miles, oil sample analysis tests indicated that the viscosity rating was reduced from 60 down to a 43 level. No need to worry, this is a normal occurrence for this heavier type of oil. I attribute this to microscopic-level lubricant-strand trimming through operational loading where all of the oil contents has been passed through gear pressure-loading regions at least a few times.
<3> At 200 miles, the viscosity level stabilized at a 42 level viscosity since the 100 mile oil analysis test results.
<4> At 5000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 40 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 4% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent)
gap wear/mass measurements.
<5> At 10,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 39 level viscosity.
<6> At 12,500 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 37 level viscosity.
<7> At 15,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 34 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was again completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill 30 oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 17% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent) gap wear/mass measurements.
<8> At 15,000 miles the oil had enough phosphor-bronze particles suspended
in it that deposits began building up inside of the synchronizer sliding
sleeves from the normal centrifuge-like rotational occurrence.
In Conclusion, until someone invents a copper magnet, we recommend that the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission oil be changed at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals so as to minimize the amount of deposits of the suspended spent synchronizer material from collecting in critical component contact surface areas.
Bottom line, our zf6 was designed to run motor oil.
this has been posted since about 1999 on the internet. that website has t been updated in years
this is junk science. even if the results are true and unbiased...there is no control comparison. so this experiment admits mass loss of synchros (with using this castrol crap)and recommends changing it 10-12k miles....
how does that compare to gm syncromesh
my experience was that it eats synchros. i know this bc after 200 miles of running it my fluid was so sparkly -full of copper flecks.
contrast that to 20k of running syncromesh and i saw perhaps 2 or 3 flecks
who do you believe more ? gm engineers or something some guy who posts on the internet ???
how do you even know if the names/titlea mentioned in the article exist? how do you know this isnt someone trying to steer you to castrol tws 10w-60 that he bought and intends to make a profit on(or intended to make a profit on back in 1999)?
Last edited by dizwiz24; 03-03-2017 at 09:09 PM.