rssshen vette

I thought this system would be the solution to eliminating my obd1 ECM in my 85. I read the details of the system on the fast web site and thought finally someone finally made an after market self learning ecm. If I come across a good deal I would pull the trigger and get one.
well I purchased a FAST EZ EFI 2.0 from a forum member for a great price. I did the install myself. The install was easy and simple. The set up and start up went without a hitch. The trouble came during the tuning. Due to my Cam's 106 centerline and 110 LSA my cam has too much overlap and that cause the map sensor to read max load at idle causing the ecm to drop the AFR below 12.0. So after reading on the FAST forum I find out the self learning needs to have a cam with 110 CL and 112-114 LSA for it to work. This isn't in the details of the website . I would have to upgrade to the sportsman ECM which would be another $900 at least

L98Justin

Yea FAST and the others seem to have left a lot of things out especially how much better the cars run on a Single plane vs Dual plane, I have a few issues with my 85 and the EZ EFI 1.0 but nothing that has ruined the project yet... i hope

Mike Holmen

Curious on what your idle rpm is set at? What timing you running at idle?

I would bump the idle up to 1000 rpm's and see how things work.

I run fast efi ez 2.0 on a 1985 with a LS LQ9 and 700r. Mine has worked perfectly, once I fixed all of my intake vacuum leaks.

C409

..... Can you tune it with a laptop ? Or are you stuck with using the touch screen ? If you can use a laptop , change the closed loop parameters and tune the idle manually . And adjust the target AFR's to reflect the additional air entering the exhaust because of the overlap . Most of the true self learning systems have base tune maps that are limited to less than 245* @ .050 camshafts . I wouldn't think the LSA is the only culprit . On my Holley system , I can tune via laptop or touchscreen . I'm tuning for a cam with 261/269 @ .050 and 6" of vacuum @ idle . Did you call FAST ? .....

rssshen vette

I have the idle set at 850, but my car idles at 1000 rpm with the idle timing set at 22*. When I try to adjust my idle (up/ or down) in the engine setup window the engine doesn't respond. The setup wizard has my idle timing set up at 20*. I retard the timing to lower the idle, but I would have to take out too much timing to lower it to 850, and it isn't drivable below 19*. The car is idling at a 1000rpm in park and in gear. 1000 rpm is too high. I've searched for vacuum leaks and found none.

rssshen vette

I have tried tuning with a laptop. A few years ago I tried my hand at tuning an Accel Thruster DFI system I installed on my 85. It was a very steep learning curve. After trying for over a year to get the tune dialed in, I give up. Accel didn't have much tech support to help out. So I pulled the system, sold it, and rode on a mail order tune. I don't think I have enough knowledge and experience to navigate the fuel and timing maps to maximize my cars performance. I like the simplified idea of the hand held touch screen. I don't think the fuel, timing, and other map on the EZ 2.0 can be accessed with a laptop. The Sportsman (next level ecm over the EZ 2.0 ) has laptop tuning capability. I've talked to FAST tech support and sent my ecm back to get tested. They found nothing wrong, but I can't get this ecm to work correctly. It looks like I'll be going back to the factory ecm. Are you familiar with Tuner Pro and MoatesAPU1? That's what I had place before the F.A.S.T. ecm.

Mike Holmen

Have you tried to do the idle timing adjust feature? My idled high until I reset the TPS sensor calibration a few times. Mine idles around 750-800 rpm area. My timing is 14 degree start and 34 degrees all in around 2400 rpm.

Honestly it took awhile to get everything working on my car to where I'm happy. Its not immediately 100%. At first I wasn't happy, but I kept tweaking the tune. I still ready haven't fully put my foot into the set-up yet. I'm impressed on how seem less that the power comes on from idle all the way to 6000 rpm's.

My engine is a stock 6.0L LQ9, shortly headers, 103mm throttle body, intake manifold. Fast 43lbs 60psi ev6 injectors.

Keep us posted on how you make out. Best of luck buddy.

BlowerWorks

In my experience O2 feedback can be an issue. That then means for auto tune to work feedback must be on the mark !!! That then also means the feedback is often incorrect - most likely due to faulty exhaust and gaskets etc.

So I say turn off the feedback (lock into OPEN LOOP) and tune - when perfect turn on the feedback (allow closed loop) and see what happens ? Just me an old, old school guy !!! greg

C409

..... I did the Tuner Pro and Moates thing for a couple of years until I discovered Holley ... I used their Commander 950 with success (non self learning) all laptop tuning and graduated to the HP (self learning) but I still needed to use the laptop for idle tuning ... I am presently running the Dominator ECU ... bought it for trans control when I switched to a 4L60E ... still tuning idle manually due to camshaft overlap ... My only experience with FAST was limited to an install of an EZ EFI Throttle Body and the set-up for a friend ... he took it from there and hasn't had any issues ... How about some more info on your mods like duration @ .050 , displacement , O2S location , injector size , intake manifold ?....

Pwnage1337

Not true about the sportsman remark,

you can send the ECM from your EZ EFI 2.0 into fast and they will flash the sportsman software onto it for about 200 dollars. I have asked about this, the two systems use the same computer just different software on it.

rssshen vette

Yeah, I've been adjusting the Idle Timing and recalibrating the IAC & TPS multiple times with little to no change. I've gotten it to change from 1000 to 950 rpm.

.

This ECM version I have is the EZ EFI 2.0 It doesn't have the feature to turn off the self learning feed back and manually tune. but thanks for the reply

A few years ago I installed a Accel Thruster DFI with the intent to learn to tune. It was a very steep learning curve. I was able to get the car drivable, but I never got the tune dialed in. Out of frustration I pulled the system and sold it.
I have one O2 sensor in the left header about 3inch before the collector. The headers are TPIS header so they are the slip on style collectors. I did check for leaks and fixed it.
My main problem is the MAP sensor is max out at idle causing the AFR to drop below 11.0 when driving at part throttle. My vacuum at idle is 10-12psi, but the 12v wire on the map sensor is only showing 5v when tested. So I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm going to call F.A.S.T. again tomorrow hopefully they will have a solution to fixing the map sensor. Here's my mods and cam specs.

L98 383, scat 4340 forged crank, forged pistons, 10:5 CR, 6" H beam rods, Dart 180cc Pro 1 Alum. Heads, Comp Cam XR 288HR (12-433-8), Roller lifters, Roller Rockers 1.5 int/ 1.6 exh, Mini Ram, 58mm TB, 30lb injector, adj fuel reg, MSD6AL, TPIS LT headers, 3” front Y pipe, Flo master, TCI kit, 3000 stall, and 373 gears.

Cam Specs:
Duration: int 288/ exh 294
Duration: int 236/ exh 242 @ .050" Lift:
Valve Lift: int 554/ exh 576
Lobe Lift: int 0.347/ exh 0.36
Valve Timing: 0.006
Lobe Separation: 110
Intake Centerline: 106



I thought I would have to buy the Sportsman to upgrade. If I have to upgrade, I'll ask about it. That's good to know. Thanks!

Pwnage1337

I run the EZ EFI 2.0 and I run the Comp Cams 280 XFI in a 383, 11:1 compression, Dart Pro 1 200cc heads.

I don't have any issues with mine....might want to check wiring to the sensor. I had to repin a few sensors because the voltage supply and signal were mixed up and had to be corrected otherwise my TPS was reading funky.

Send me a PM if you have any more questions about it, I had some rough patches with mine but am happy with it now that I have it sorted out.

bjankuski

If you cannot get the EZ EFI 2.0 dialed in then you can send it back to be reflashed or swapped with the sportsman system. When I talked to FAST they were doing the EZ EFI 2.0 to sportsman swap for free on cars that could not get the idle dialed in. Your cam does not seem that large so I think you have something else going on like your throttle blades are open to far to allow the idle to drop to 850 RPM. (Too much air entering the system).

If you really do need the sportsman system it will run your car fine. I am using the sportsman on two drag cars with EFI and those cars have solid roller cams that at .050 are 282/288 on 110 LCA installed at 106 ICL with .814 lift (Or larger on the other car) and I can idle them in closed loop at 1000 RPM. It is amazing to me how fast these system learn, I can make one WOT drag pass in 8 seconds and the AFR will be perfect (Short term correction) on the pass with the adaptive learning dialing in the VE table to near perfect in a few runs.

bjankuski

One more question with the EZ-EFI 2.0 can you target your commanded AFR at load? (I use the sportsman and XFI 2.0) If so just set your low RPM high MAP commanded AFR to 14.0 AFR or whatever you need to make the car happy.

Pwnage1337

The entry points for the AFR are really basic, you literally only have three options -

Idle, Cruise, and WOT. So there isn't any ability to command a specific AFR at a given load.

I'm going to put my money on the MAP sensor is not receiving the correct voltage. My TPS did the same thing when the signal and 5v+ were switched. The TPS only had an output range of .5v to something like 1.5. It was a dead giveaway. I'm pretty sure the MAP is only supposed to receive 5v, just like the TPS. If possible i'd try to verify the voltage at the MAP.

Which MAP Sensor are you running? I had to put new ends on various connectors in order to re use the TPI style connectors. Even the Injector harness i had to buy adapters to use my L98 style injectors because the harness comes with LS style connectors.

ddahlgren

The map sensor should have 5V supply. The vacuum is in inches of mercury not psi. With the MAP readings you quote vs. the idle Vacuum you quote the sensor is wired wrong. Assuming they are using a Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor or something equally fast and their circuits are fast as well keeping up should be no problem. The whole self learning makes a lot of assumptions that may or may not be true for your engine.

rssshen vette

Thanks for the reply. Seeing that your engine build is similar to mine is a relief that the EZ EFI will work. I'll certinly PM you if I have questions.

The EZ EFI doesn't have this capability.

I'm using a map sensor from F.A.S.T. pn# 244-307007, and I also have a GM map sensor pn# 039 3252. I tested the wires voltage going to the Map. The signal out wire (white wire) has 4.7X volts, and the signal in wire (red wire) has 5 volts. After installing the wire harness I had to change the map connector from LS style to the TPI style connector. While testing the voltage I notice the wire placement in the LS connector is different the TPI. Tomorrow I'll repin the wires hopefully that will be the fix. If it doesn't I'll be looking at all the vacuum line to see what needs to be replace if it looks dry rotted.

Thanks!

cadmaniac

That Cam should be no problem. Comp Cams custom ground me a cam for my 421 with 109 LSA, and approx 260 degrees duration @.050. They said as long as I had 9" of vacuum it would work.

As fate would have it, I went with Fi tech EFI and it works great.

rssshen vette

Well today I disconnected all vacuum lines coming off the intake and capped them off except for the map sensor. I turned the ignition to start and the map sensor read 77 and the load 87. So I started the engine and the reading remain the same, but as the engine temp warmed up the map and load reading lowed. By the time the engine temp reached 130 the map and load read 64 and 78 and the AFR was in the 13.6 - 14.5 range. The car Idle between 850 and 950 and the IAC hovered around 20- 30 count. I let the engine run for 3 to 4 minutes and shortly after the idle to stumbled to 500-600 rpm, AFR read 11.0, and the map and load maxed out to 97 and 99. I tried the same with two other map sensors with the same end result. WTF! I'm 100% sure the intake doesn't have a vacuum leak. All the map sensors I've used are good working sensors. I'm at lost here. My only thought now is to maybe swap the cam with a XFI cam. Any advice?

C409

..... The stumbling idle is likely due to the over-rich AFR and that (stumbling idle) will push the MAP into the full load zone ... in other words , the MAP may not be the cause but is probably a victim .....