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help me find an awd car to sooth my winter driving woes

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Old 01-12-2018, 07:48 PM   #41  
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Now you cant do that in a 2wd drive vehicle.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:59 PM   #42  
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Originally Posted by CRAIGVETTE View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Alcyone_SVX

This is the era you want, and AWD.
I never understood the goofy *** windows on those things.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:30 AM   #43  
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Of course there are problems other cars don't suffer from. All the problems associated with all wheel drive systems. Don't pretend those components don't fail, you already admitted they wear out. There is nothing ignorant about stating the obvious.
Sure, normal maintenance is obviously needed over the years but nothing one cannot handle with normal income and toolkit. And if you are unfortunate and/or run into road hazard then yes, there can be more cost as there is more parts. But, the fact the parts do exist doesn't automatically mean you have bigger costs, you usually indeed need to be unfortunate or stupid to break drive related parts. Not something we often see in IRL. With high hp cars and drivers who like to burn rubber on high friction surfaces the chance of breakage is high but in winter use its something you don't see often.

I maintain that the awd cars do not have "lots of problems that other cars do not suffer from", only chance for that if you are very unlucky or abuse your car. In any case I would not avoid awd cars because they might some day have a extra cv joint to change, the benefits in winter conditions heavily outweight possible extra maintenance one might (or might not) encounter over the years. You don't have to be struggling with 2wd car to enjoy the benefits.

Example about awd extra maintenance costs I've experienced over couple of decades: Audi A6 Quattro with 180K miles: 1 cv joint, cost about $50 + couple of hours of work for a first timer. This is the total drive related repair costs of a car from new (its also the only repair I've had to do on any of the awd cars my family has owned over 2 decades). Of course few rear end oil changes more than a 2wd would have every 60K or so. And I like to go sideways on slippery surfaces

Same rules apply to awd cars that do to others: don't buy an abused car in bad shape and check the maintenance records and repair bills. Don't be afraid of the awd

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Old 01-13-2018, 03:49 AM   #44  
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Get yourself a 90's era Mercedes-Benz.S class. AWD that will go through anything. These cars are tanks in any type of weather, strong V8 that will last forever, extreme comfort, fun to drive and excellent build quality
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:27 AM   #45  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
The video you posted about Audis system shows a set of hydraulic actuated clutch plates, presumably by a pressure control solenoid controlled by the pcm, along with a couple dozen other parts.
I posted the video to show Audis terminology on AWD & 4WD. The tech they show is the new RS5's Quattro system and has little to do with the Quattros of the 90's we are talking about in this thread. Sorry if that confused you, wasn't my intention.

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You know what doesn't have all that ? A two wheel drive vehicle.
Well I know Torsen Quattros don't have all that. The Audis I recommended are Torsen Quattros, all mechanical rear ends, including the center diff. No clutch plates, hydraulics etc. Very realiable tech.

The TT mentioned at some point however is Haldex Quattro. Much more problem prone system and more like rear wheel assistance to front wheel drive car. Not a fan. But, I'll admit its better than 2wd alone in slippery conditions.

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Old 01-13-2018, 05:54 AM   #46  
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How about a domestic car? I've owned the 1993 Typhoon above since 1997.


92-93 GMC Typhoon. Meets all requirements, including budget , early 90's, and are AWD. Not to mention stupid-azz turbocharged fun. 0-60 in 4.2, even in the rain. 4.3 V6 (based on the SBC), 700R4 automatic, Borg Warner AWD viscious clutch T-case as used in Bravada and Astro van of the era. It's a 1st Gen S-10, parts are still available, and reasonably priced.

Tys have seating for 4 and the seatbacks will recline. The 93 has more comfortable seats than the 92, and is more desirable. The Typhoon is a fabulous GT car, I've driven my Ty's on several cross-country and return trips. I know of several Ty's on blizzacks driven by Canadian owners as DD's over the years.

I've been involved with SyTy for over 20 years and owned 3 Sys and 3 Tys. I was a guru on SyTy.net before that site self-destructed last year. They are fairly reliable if left STOCK, including the engine calibration. Chip them and they will run 12's, but are prone to detonation and bearings become problematic. Transmissions are hard on the sprag and sun shell because the AWD doesn't allow the tires to slip during the 1-2 shift. But these parts are cheap compared to foreign makes such as Audi, Mitsu, and Suburu.

There are still serviceable rust-free Typhoons available in the 8-12K range. If you actually research and look at ads for Typhoons be cognizant of the condition of and any missing cladding, including the bumpers. (The "body kit" around the lower body.) Replacement pieces are difficult to find and extremely pricey. There is a source in California for fiberglass cladding that is reasonably priced as an alternative.

You'd be right at home with a Ty in your garage. Very similar "challenge" to a C4. Kind of finicky, old, some tasks kind of difficult, but satisfying to drive and maintain.

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Old 01-13-2018, 06:33 AM   #47  
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Originally Posted by ToniH View Post

I maintain that the awd cars do not have "lots of problems that other cars do not suffer from", only chance for that if you are very unlucky or abuse your car.
So its sounds like you would agree that if you are unlucky, or abuse the car, then awd has problems other cars do not.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:06 AM   #48  
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ToniH "gets it" and Pattern Day Trader doesn't.

AWD is hands-down the BEST solution for a vehicle that may encounter inclimate road conditions. The AWD will always be ready. A 4X4 may not be in 4X4 when a patchy spot is encountered. 4X4 on pavement causes undue wear on components, even in rain. 4X4 is not as good a solution n limited traction conditions as AWD. A 4X4 may not be in 4-wheel drive when it should be, and may be in 4-wheel drive when it shouldn't be. Another obscure benefit to AWD is in braking. It is not as likely to lock up one wheel when all 4 are mechanically linked together. This benefit exists at ALL times. Even on dry pavement.

Tire rolling diameters must be maintained. There are two drive shafts, and 4 axle shafts. There are components in the transfer case (viscous clutch and chain) that may need attention from time to time. The cost associated with maintaining these items is well worth the advantages of having AWD.

I had a 1993 S-series 4 door Blazer that I bought new (2WD) and converted to AWD when it was 5 years old. The conversion was done with GM parts and cost abou $5,000. tI ran that truck 100K as 2WD, than 195K with the AWD. I felt I took a perfect car and made it better. It was amazingly capable in any weather, even deep fresh snow, but the confidence it gave in RAIN was what really shined about it. I drove it in 48 states and 3 countries. I didn't care what the weather forecast was, the truck would make it. The only "extra" maintaince the AWD system required was a T-case chain replacement because I towed my boat regularly with it. That repair was $250, and took an afternoon to accomplish. I sold it after 20 years to a friend in Michigan. It now has 350K on it and is still driven daily.

My Typhoon is AWD, and so is my Cayenne. So I still have AWD in my Daily Drivers, even though I don't regularly need it in SoCal. Even pulling out in front of traffic and getting surprised by some ***-hat going faster than you thought isn't dramatic with AWD. Neither the Ty or the Cayenne will go up in smoke in a right hand turn if I have to get on it.

If you haven't experienced and lived with AWD, you won't understand how neat it is. The benefits far outweigh the slight additional maintaince requirements.

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Old 01-13-2018, 07:34 AM   #49  
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Originally Posted by ihatebarkingdogs View Post
ToniH "gets it" and Pattern Day Trader doesn't.
You realize I am not denying that awd is better under certain driving conditions don't you ? You also realize you made my point for me by acknowledging the tire diameter issues, the additional parts, and your personal experience having to replace the transfer case chain on your home brew s10. So exactly how am I the one who doesn't "get it" ? I'm sure you have an actual explanation, I cant wait to hear it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:06 AM   #50  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
on your home brew s10. I'm sure you have an actual explanation, I cant wait to hear it.
Up yours. You made my Ignore list. Bye.


So you're right. AWD has additional expense. So f-ing what? You've obviously never had an AWD vehicle, much less 9 of them like myself. I've put 350,000 collective miles on them I also own 2 4X4 pick-ups, one of them an F250 Super Duty Diesel. It's better in snow than any of my AWDs, but only because it weighs 8,000 lbs. Its impractical to drive daily, and doesn't have the enhanced braking, acceleration, and wet-weather advantages of the AWDs.


Having experienced the benefits of AWD for over 20 years, J will probably always own at least one AWD indefinitely.You should try one too. Your arguments look foolish to those of us that know what we're talking about.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:16 AM   #51  
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Originally Posted by ihatebarkingdogs View Post
Up yours. You made my Ignore list. Bye.


So you're right. AWD has additional expense. So f-ing what? You've obviously never had an AWD vehicle, much less 9 of them like myself. I've put 350,000 collective miles on them I also own 2 4X4 pick-ups, one of them an F250 Super Duty Diesel. It's better in snow than any of my AWDs, but only because it weighs 8,000 lbs. Its impractical to drive daily, and doesn't have the enhanced braking, acceleration, and wet-weather advantages of the AWDs.


Having experienced the benefits of AWD for over 20 years, J will probably always own at least one AWD indefinitely.You should try one too. Your arguments look foolish to those of us that know what we're talking about.
Clam down.
How about at least attempting to find a narrative that we can agree on.
Why don't you try saying something like "awd has problems, but those problems are outweighed by the benefits", or you can just ignore me, that's fine too.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:43 AM   #52  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
So its sounds like you would agree that if you are unlucky, or abuse the car, then awd has problems other cars do not.
Yes but that was not your argument to start with and its kind of lame trying to change your position in mid argument and hope nobody notices it.

I am done with you too. Enjoy your perpetual summer and leave the winter driving and equipment to those who know something about it. Bye.

Ps. i cannot see your writings anymore so no point in replying to me.

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Old 01-13-2018, 08:47 AM   #53  
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Originally Posted by ToniH View Post
Yes but that was not your argument to start with and its kind of lame trying to change your position in mid argument and hope nobody notices it.

I am done with you too. Enjoy your perpertual summer and leave the winter driving and equipment to those who know something about it. Bye.
I'm not changing my position. I'm trying to find something you could agree with. You don't have to play along.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:49 AM   #54  
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If you want something cheap I’d find an 05-09 AWD Toyota Matrix or Pontiac Vibe (both available in manual or auto) and call it a day. They will be reliable, economical, run forever, and get you through most bad conditions. Get one with the 1ZZ engine although not as powerful as the others but the most reliable.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:51 AM   #55  
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lambo,porsche,


or audi quattro
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:07 AM   #56  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
how am I the one who doesn't "get it" ?
I think you sank yourself with the word "lots". I know that you "get it". But when I read that sentence, I disagreed with it immediately (although I kept my mouth shut). Of course, "lots" is subjective and could be argued indefinitely. But trying to keep it simple, if you said "AWD has more problems", that is not debatable. It's got more parts...it's going to have more problems eventually. "Lots" more problems? No. The Stealth that we owned never had any problems related to the AWD system or affected systems. Other AWD cars I've had have also had zero problems related to their AWD systems either. So "lots more"? No.

On the other hand, supporting PDT's point is my brother and his Audi Allroad. It developed a torn CV boot in the LF outer CV. At the Audi dealer the repair ballooned into a "over $3000 dollars" to repair. If it wasn't AWD that wouldn't have been a repair...however, surely something else would have been broken on that car.

The fuel economy penalty is real...but if you've made the decision to have AWD or 4wd, I'd think that you'd have already accepted that trade off and it's a "non-issue". Our 400hp CTS-V averages ~24 mpg. The Stealth averaged ~24mpg. Was the trade off worth it? When I was plowing snow with the front bumper it sure was. Also, any 2nd gear AW drift blast made it totally worth it!
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:23 AM   #57  
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I don't feel to bad about it. The facts arnt really in dispute. I would have been fine had someone suggested the benefits outweigh the hassle, but I couldn't even get agreement on that. Instead I'm getting blocked lol.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:27 AM   #58  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebarkingdogs View Post
Up yours. You made my Ignore list. Bye.


So you're right. AWD has additional expense. So f-ing what? You've obviously never had an AWD vehicle, much less 9 of them like myself. I've put 350,000 collective miles on them I also own 2 4X4 pick-ups, one of them an F250 Super Duty Diesel. It's better in snow than any of my AWDs, but only because it weighs 8,000 lbs. Its impractical to drive daily, and doesn't have the enhanced braking, acceleration, and wet-weather advantages of the AWDs.


Having experienced the benefits of AWD for over 20 years, J will probably always own at least one AWD indefinitely.You should try one too. Your arguments look foolish to those of us that know what we're talking about.

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:39 AM   #59  
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Originally Posted by belairbrian View Post
If you really want AWD classic a late 80's Audi Quattro Coupe. Those things tore up the rally courses back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro




Now that's winter driving
that is the type of driving ive been doing this winter except i dont win any trophies lol!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebarkingdogs View Post

How about a domestic car? I've owned the 1993 Typhoon above since 1997.


92-93 GMC Typhoon. Meets all requirements, including budget , early 90's, and are AWD. Not to mention stupid-azz turbocharged fun. 0-60 in 4.2, even in the rain. 4.3 V6 (based on the SBC), 700R4 automatic, Borg Warner AWD viscious clutch T-case as used in Bravada and Astro van of the era. It's a 1st Gen S-10, parts are still available, and reasonably priced.

Tys have seating for 4 and the seatbacks will recline. The 93 has more comfortable seats than the 92, and is more desirable. The Typhoon is a fabulous GT car, I've driven my Ty's on several cross-country and return trips. I know of several Ty's on blizzacks driven by Canadian owners as DD's over the years.

I've been involved with SyTy for over 20 years and owned 3 Sys and 3 Tys. I was a guru on SyTy.net before that site self-destructed last year. They are fairly reliable if left STOCK, including the engine calibration. Chip them and they will run 12's, but are prone to detonation and bearings become problematic. Transmissions are hard on the sprag and sun shell because the AWD doesn't allow the tires to slip during the 1-2 shift. But these parts are cheap compared to foreign makes such as Audi, Mitsu, and Suburu.

There are still serviceable rust-free Typhoons available in the 8-12K range. If you actually research and look at ads for Typhoons be cognizant of the condition of and any missing cladding, including the bumpers. (The "body kit" around the lower body.) Replacement pieces are difficult to find and extremely pricey. There is a source in California for fiberglass cladding that is reasonably priced as an alternative.

You'd be right at home with a Ty in your garage. Very similar "challenge" to a C4. Kind of finicky, old, some tasks kind of difficult, but satisfying to drive and maintain.
Dogs im going to check this out! You also own the other suv that im looking at, the Cayenne. Do you do you own tinkering on it?


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Originally Posted by dmaxx3500 View Post
lambo,porsche,


or audi quattro
would love a countach though id think it would only come out in nocer weather. there are really no awd porsches that i could acquire low enough to put through winter rock chips and salt and not feel bad about it. the audi TT WAS THE ONE I WAS THINKING ABOUT. Dogs, where i live they were SUPER pooular because of the awd feature but they have fallen off the popularity list up here and u hardly see them anymore. i can pick one up for 5k cad which leaves me with budget for newer rims and a too tier set of winters. even studded. I KNOW THESE were called "hairdressers cars" but.....honest opinion...what do u think about these "mini me porsches" when they have had a few mods such as this:....i cant a pic uploadef from my iphonr. ill brb and upload it.

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:47 AM   #60  
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i can get one of the awd manual for 4k.
yes high miles. i can do the timing belt no biggie.
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