When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
There's a good chance the Sled will be parting company with the Millers. It's taking up space that can be better used and I've honestly moved on to other things.
How the heck to I set a fair market value to this Mutt?
The Hardtop took a decade to purchase and they're even rarer now then they were then.
The driveline has less than 10,000 miles on the entire thing...Radiator, Lingenfelter Superram, longblock, transmission, TC, final drive, shocks, wheel bearings, brakes, bushings, exhaust...all of it's been touched since I started messin' around with it.
A light list of goodies:
383 block with roller rockers, rings gapped for a 200hp shot (never implemented), Forged pistons, Cast Crank, 425hp/500ft-lbs crank - dynod at 300hp/375ft-lbs on premium through a restrictive exhaust.
Hartman High Performance blueprinted 700r4 - Billet 9/11 Torque Converter with a 3200 stall
Cryotreated D36 with 3.54 gears - Dakota Digital speedo corrector
C5 Brake upgrades
Griffen Radiator with Evans NPG coolant
Factory Hardtop
Long-tube ceramic coated headers, into high flow cat, back out to 2.25" exhaust
Numbers Matching block is sittin' in the corner of the garage.
There's more, but I've forgotten it.
That said. It's fugly. That's what I was going for, and that's what it is. It's stout, and it's reliable, and it's hairy and ill mannered. And compared to what the manufacturers are selling these days, it's kinda slow. (!)
aaand it doesn't pass emissions. High transient HC could mean something simple like ignition, could be fuel injectors (PITA as they're under the SuperRam), head gaskets (doubtful, but also a PITA), I know it's NOT bad gas.
I have no clue what it's worth. The Bits and pieces are worth stuff, but I don't wanna sell a $10k car for $6k, and I don't want to ask $10k for an $8k car.
Last edited by RocketSled; 02-04-2018 at 01:20 PM.
That said. It's fugly. That's what I was going for, and that's what it is.....aaand it doesn't pass emissions.
Well, giving it to you straight, you have a car that has limited audience appeal.
You describe a car that is fast, ugly and not legal to drive. Most future Vette owners want a pretty car that is drivable--today.
Your market is someone who is interested in the good engineering work you did, not interested in cosmetics, will be agreeable to buying a car with known issues.
Yeah, it was an evolving car that started from a less than optimum place. As a convertible, it never was going to be a good track car. I went the 0-70mph streetlight drag route, then added the hardtop to allow it to go racing and pass tech (12.99 needed a rollbar)
The emissions issue is a stickler...I figure it'll be a straight across situation where any increase in value will be spent on the repair...but that may just have to happen to make it easier to sell.
Last edited by RocketSled; 02-04-2018 at 03:03 PM.
I won't lie, it's not perfect...what it is is reliable and brutal.
But what is "hairy and ill mannered"? If it can't go from stoplight to stoplight and keeps dying, that is an issue. If all the thing can do is WOT, sure.
Oh no, it's perfectly tuned, it just marks it's territory. And it starts with the second crank every time.
And if you put in in Drive before the motor slows down from starting, it's kind of a thump.
And if you pull it from 3rd to 2nd too quick, it'll chirp the tires.
That doesn't sound like "perfectly tuned". It should start on the first crank. "Marks its territory" as in what? Oil dripping everywhere? Have you tried to solve it yet?
Not sure why it does that. Mine drags the motor down if you put it in drive but not a thump
You talking about manually shifting the gearshift or is this a stick car?
700r4's are analog beasts. In order to get the clutch application under WOT to live behind 500 ft-lbs, the builder and I sacrificed comfort for longevity. It's got a B&M Proshifter (probably oughta add that to the list above), so that you can shift if you want to...and will probably be faster than the spinning weight governor that normally controls shifting...it expects the motor to be all done at 5200 rpm, not the 6000 or so it can rev to with the SuperRam.
There's some motor oil leakage because it's been sitting...there's some tranny oil seepage because no matter how much honing I did to the mating surfaces of the higher capacity cast aluminum oil pan, I couldn't get it to seal completely.
I should also add: If you're just lightly driving around town, it's relatively nice and civilized. It doesn't shift hard, it doesn't stall, it doesn't bog (a biggie...tuning the Torque Converter behavior required me to dig into OBD1 ECU PROM programming.)
700r4's are analog beasts. In order to get the clutch application under WOT to live behind 500 ft-lbs, the builder and I sacrificed comfort for longevity. It's got a B&M Proshifter (probably oughta add that to the list above), so that you can shift if you want to...and will probably be faster than the spinning weight governor that normally controls shifting...it expects the motor to be all done at 5200 rpm, not the 6000 or so it can rev to with the SuperRam.
There's some motor oil leakage because it's been sitting...there's some tranny oil seepage because no matter how much honing I did to the mating surfaces of the higher capacity cast aluminum oil pan, I couldn't get it to seal completely.
That's pretty low territory. Much like an L98 which may turn some people off.
That too can be an issue. Not everyone likes to have oil stains in their garage. Are you sure it is the pan and not the trans seal?
Yup. This has drifted from 'competitive Millenium Falcon' thing to '25 year old example of how they hotrodded cars' thing.
The Automatic was regretful...I did it to let the wife drive...by the time it was done, she said "I'm never gonna drive that thing"...could have shortcut a LOT of issues if I'd just thrown a ZF6 in there. But it is what it is, and it's sorted.
I think we've established this is not a 'what everyone likes' kind of car. Hence the thread.
I should also add: If you're just lightly driving around town, it's relatively nice and civilized. It doesn't shift hard, it doesn't stall, it doesn't bog (a biggie...tuning the Torque Converter behavior required me to dig into OBD1 ECU PROM programming.)
Now that gets me worried when you say you went into the EPROM to change stuff.
If you are selling it, try not to use the phrases you have been using. The seller might not be impressed and think it is a POS and offer you a low number. It might work on some kid who is 18 and wants to be badass to his friends but so far, what you have said gives me the impression that it is a hacked up POS and probably will pass on it. If you told me it is "hairy and ill mannered" and/or "I adjusted the EPROM program", it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies unless you are a pro shop. Saying that something could be wrong with the fuel injectors but you haven't gotten to them because it is a PITA doesn't tell me you are a very meticulous owner so I'd be wondering what else is wrong that you aren't telling me because you either don't know better or you are too lazy and desperate to move the issue. Either way, I'd find out what is wrong with them since the Superram isn't that difficult to install if you set it up right.
Yup. This has drifted from 'competitive Millenium Falcon' thing to '25 year old example of how they hotrodded cars' thing.
The Automatic was regretful...I did it to let the wife drive...by the time it was done, she said "I'm never gonna drive that thing"...could have shortcut a LOT of issues if I'd just thrown a ZF6 in there. But it is what it is, and it's sorted.
I think we've established this is not a 'what everyone likes' kind of car. Hence the thread.
I think it would cost more to put the ZF6 in it than to start all over if this was at the beginning.
Therein lies the problem. A car that "not everyone likes" is going to be harder to sell. So are you willing to wait or do you need to sell it now? IOW, if you hold out for $8000 and it takes 3 years, is that ok?
I think you see the issue. My fingerprints are all over this car, and it wouldn't have been built to this level without some serious work. Sure, You buy from a Callaway or a Lingenfelter and there's some added value to the Provenance. But there's no reason someone else couldn't duplicate it.
Ed Wright (http://www.fastchip.com/) spent three iterations tuning the spark and fuel maps for the motor. Got it to balance out with the O2 sensor, then didn't want to handle the usability issues...I couldn't get the car to him, and there's a limited amount of profit in sending chips through the mail. Getting set up with the guys at the f-body forum let me dial in the rest of the picture. If that scares you (or a prospective buyer), there's not a whole lot I can do about that. It is what it is.
I think it would cost more to put the ZF6 in it than to start all over if this was at the beginning.
Therein lies the problem. A car that "not everyone likes" is going to be harder to sell. So are you willing to wait or do you need to sell it now? IOW, if you hold out for $8000 and it takes 3 years, is that ok?
Now...yes, back when I was building the car? The ZF6 would have been SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper, and I would have been much happier with the result.
I think you see the issue. My fingerprints are all over this car, and it wouldn't have been built to this level without some serious work. Sure, You buy from a Callaway or a Lingenfelter and there's some added value to the Provenance. But there's no reason someone else couldn't duplicate it.
Ed Wright (http://www.fastchip.com/) spent three iterations tuning the spark and fuel maps for the motor. Got it to balance out with the O2 sensor, then didn't want to handle the usability issues...I couldn't get the car to him, and there's a limited amount of profit in sending chips through the mail. Getting set up with the guys at the f-body forum let me dial in the rest of the picture. If that scares you (or a prospective buyer), there's not a whole lot I can do about that. It is what it is.
Therein lies the problem. You didn't duplicate it. You added a Superram onto a 383. Not sure of the cam but it doesn't pass emissions. Possible injector issue. Tuning not right. It has too much of your fingerprints to call it a LPE or Callaway clone. To be fair, it's more of a Frankenstein Creation.
That Ed has, or sounds like he has, given up on making it nicer is going to hurt you. If you want to move it, you are going to take a bath unless you can slow dance someone into buying it for your price. First thing I would do is get the thing to a speed shop that has a good reputation for making this work. Next sort out the leaks. After which, you might be able to get a good amount for it without waiting for currency inflation to help you get the money you want. The other thing is to drive it into the ground.
I'm not trying to insult you but the way I think when I see all of this is "POS" and I would either run or give you a lowball number. I've been lied to enough that I consider the seller a liar before I even read his ad. When he says "AC doesn't work because it needs a recharge.", I think "This car needs everything AC replaced." and offer accordingly.
ASSUMING everything you said is accurate, IF I were in the market, I'd probably offer no more than $5000 simply because I would wonder what else I have to do to make it right. For me to drag it to a facility to dyno tune, assuming I can find one nearby will run me at leat $1000. If the injectors are an issue, it might take quite a bit of labor to R&R the Superram since most people didn't get the LPE trick for install and doing it the manual way. That is another $1000 in parts and labor if the GM Gods are smiling and I use FIC for injectors. You have a rachet shifter. Did you just install that or did you put the neutral safety and brake safety switches in it? I did that on a C4 and it was not the most fun job with the soldering. Finally, I hated it enough to get rid of it. Wife never liked the "Pull lever to get out of park".
Now...yes, back when I was building the car? The ZF6 would have been SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper, and I would have been much happier with the result.
IDK how much ZF6 trans are and how much labor is involved in cutting a hole in it. I've seen a couple of hacked up jobs and they weren't pretty. I've seen quite a few Mustang conversions and the owners mostly told me that they would have been money ahead selling what they had and getting a stick to begin with.
The problem is relaying condition using text on a forum. You don't know if I twist nutted the wire or used heat-shrink.
The other problem is finding someone willing to buy a car without any kind of safety net. This thing, while relatively sorted, is so far off the reservation that I have no clue what it's worth.
There's nothing particularly magic about a SuperRam'd 383 with a ZZ9 cam. I picked that configuration BECAUSE it wasn't magic. Changing the fans to turn on at 205 and 215, and the Torque converter to lock up at 27 mph in 3rd and 32 mph in 4th is likewise, not hard for a motivated person to pick up. But "The owner dug into the PROM, lordy knows what he did!"
There just aren't a lot of those motivated people left.
02-04-2018, 01:14 PM
Give it to me Straight, Doc.
