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Clutch feels spongy and car is nearly impossible to get into gear
just about 2 months ago (I think?) I replaced the master and slave cylinders on my clutch, because the clutch was a little spongy and was not disengaging, making it very difficult to get the car into gear.
I replaced the cylinders, bled the system, and TADA! it worked and I'm back on the road.
Fast forward to today, when on my way to work I'm noticing that the clutch pedal feels a little soft, and that getting the car into first is kinda hard. By the time I get home for the night (just about 30 miles total for the day) I'm having to rev-match to get into any gear. Even had to turn the car off and start it in gear to get it moving at a stop sign. Note: it didn't really roll with the clutch pedal down and the car in gear when I started it. Pumping the clutch at first made it firmer, but the effectiveness of that technique diminished over time.
When I got home I checked the clutch fluid. It was a little dark but looked pretty clean overall. It definitely wasn't low. Pumping the pedal made no visible difference in the clutch fluid in the reservoir, and I didn't see anything leaking either above or below.
Another possibly important note, we had a particularly cold snap last time I had trouble with the clutch, and it was considerably colder today (~freezing) than it has been the last few weeks, when it was in the 60s.
SURELY the new hydraulics I put in can't be bad already, right?
i wouldnt rule that out no. sounds like hose expansion (im talking out my but here because no dont know if there is rubber or if there if its all steel) or, cylinder sucking air?
so I went out and played with it for a little bit. when I first tried to start the car, the clutch went straight to the floor and BARELY engaged (or is it disengaged? I think you know what I mean though). If I released any pressure the car jumped forward.
Playing with it for a while, if I pumped the pedal, it got pretty stiff. If I let off the pedal and let it sit for even 10-15 seconds, it got significantly softer, but as long as I keep a little pressure on the pedal it seems to hold its firmness.
VT, there IS a little bit of rubber right at the bottom, where the slave cylinder connects. It will be a few days before I can jack it up and inspect the hose.
I'm thinking it has to be hydraulics-related. I'm not losing fluid anywhere I don't believe-the level is good and I can't see anything. I'm throwing in a photo of the fluid. It's a little dark but I didn't flush the lines when I redid the hydraulics, so there was probably a little something left in the line.
It's really surprising how FAST it became an issue. In less than 15 miles it went from 'maybe that's a little soft?' to 'I can't shift at all'.
what causes clutch fluid to get dark? Also, like I said, I didn't flush the lines (although they did drain pretty well, considering I had the slave cylinder off) so it's possible there was some crap in the lines. I stuck my finger in and it came up clean-I don't think it's quite as bad as it looks in the photo.
Still-what would cause that to happen? And how would it affect the clutch?
Check the hose. Also check for residue on the linkage up under the dash. Could be bleeding out the seal. I have heard of them going bad out the box... Lots of reading scared me when I did mine 5 years ago. Start with the basics. Air is getting in somewhere.
One thing-when I replaced the slave cylinder, it attached to the line slightly differently than original that put the line at a weird angle. I'm wondering if that might play a part, might have put extra pressure on line.
Check the hose. Also check for residue on the linkage up under the dash. Could be bleeding out the seal. I have heard of them going bad out the box... Lots of reading scared me when I did mine 5 years ago. Start with the basics. Air is getting in somewhere.
Actually I'm pretty sure I'd have noticed if it were bleeding out under the dash since I was just in there fixing the clutch disengage switch for the Cruise Control.
Actually I'm pretty sure I'd have noticed if it were bleeding out under the dash since I was just in there fixing the clutch disengage switch for the Cruise Control.
True. It also may not actually be leaking much if any fluid out. Even when my stuff completely died, pumping the clutch allowed you to drive around normal for a while as long as you topped off. Couple hundred miles showed no measurable drop in fluid even though I would lose pedal pressure.
In that case, pump up the clutch good and well and get some hose clamp pliers on the hose. Disengage the clutch and clamp the line. Let it sit for a while. If the pressure plate creeps back down it's the slave. If it holds something is wonky in the master. Perhaps the seal is lose in the bore and it's just bleeding itself back into the reservoir.
iirc the test in my service manual is to press in the clutch and shift between forward and reverse around 10 times and see if it grinds.
I went through similar hell with my clutch hydraulics a few years ago. I’d replace them, it would work, then one day the pedal would be mush. I could pump it up and it would work the next day mush again. I replaced the cylinders a few times. Same result. On the advice of a forum member I flushed all of the DOT3 out of the clutch system and filled/bled with DOT5. The pedal has been perfect ever since and releases in full. It even eliminated a squeak which I always thought was the TOB sliding or pivot ball but was likely internal to the slave cylinder. Food for thought. DOT 3 and 5 are not compatible, I flushed a lot of fluid through with a vacuum bleeder (Venturi operated off line pressure from a compressor). I don’t believe DOT 5 absorbs water, which means any water that makes its way into the system may pool and cause rust, I plan on annual flushes of the system.
Also the dark fluid could be the hydraulic line decomposing, if not the o-rings in the cylinders.
Thanks guys. I'll start by bleeding the system-that should have been my first thought as well. Should I be worried about air getting in somehow? Or is it possible that something like a change in temperature has exacerbated a problem of air that I already had in there?
I just don't want to have to worry about my clutch going out all the time.
First things first. I'll bleed it over the weekend and post results, and we can go from there.
Thanks guys. I'll start by bleeding the system-that should have been my first thought as well. Should I be worried about air getting in somehow? Or is it possible that something like a change in temperature has exacerbated a problem of air that I already had in there?
I just don't want to have to worry about my clutch going out all the time.
First things first. I'll bleed it over the weekend and post results, and we can go from there.
The clutch hydraulic system on C4's can be tricky to bleed so keep at it. Sometimes even when you think it's bled well and the pedal is good there can be air trapped somewhere.
If it continues after multiple bleeds i'd start looking the hydraulic line. They can fail from heat and age. Also make sure the connections are solid and leak free.
Change that fluid out immediately, and bleed the system to get fresh fluid into everything. I replaced (rebuilt) my original clutch cylinders 2 years ago and the same 2 year old fluid is still perfectly clear today.
Speaking of which, it's about time to flush mine too...
03-07-2018, 06:48 PM
Clutch feels spongy and car is nearly impossible to get into gear
First thing I would have done. Rebleed the system.
