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Why so many people do iron block ls motor swaps?

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Old 03-12-2018, 11:51 PM
  #41  
aklim
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Originally Posted by cardo0 View Post
Myself I have little trust in shops that advertise LS swaps/conversions. It takes not only a good mechanic but someone that can fabricate parts when needed and electrical wise technicains to make it all work with the stock instruments and controls. Ohms law alone won't cut with modern computer controls. And LS swap kits are limited in scope as the different models are unlimited. I don't think you will find a complete kit for any car and you are left on your own for much of the swap.
Therein lies the issue. None of them could tell me how long it takes other than to get the motor in. Kinda what makes me hesitate since I really don't want to start a black hole project myself and dedicate my whole garage to a project of unknown time span. I talked to Torquehead this morning since they were the most recent people to even mention something about the remote possibility of a P&P black box that would make the swap more predictable and cheaper. I would THINK that it might work easier if you can get the pinout for the plugs and somehow cut the old plug off and solder them together. That way the BCM gets input and is happy and the new ECM can control the engine.

I think this is why shops suggested I either get a car that already has an LS motor in it or get a built motor when the car goes and put a blower on it. When they hear the project I want, they seem to have a way of saying "How attached are you to the car?".
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Therein lies the issue. None of them could tell me how long it takes other than to get the motor in. Kinda what makes me hesitate since I really don't want to start a black hole project myself and dedicate my whole garage to a project of unknown time span. I talked to Torquehead this morning since they were the most recent people to even mention something about the remote possibility of a P&P black box that would make the swap more predictable and cheaper. I would THINK that it might work easier if you can get the pinout for the plugs and somehow cut the old plug off and solder them together. That way the BCM gets input and is happy and the new ECM can control the engine.

I think this is why shops suggested I either get a car that already has an LS motor in it or get a built motor when the car goes and put a blower on it. When they hear the project I want, they seem to have a way of saying "How attached are you to the car?".
Honestly I think the earlier C4's are probably a better LS swap candidate because the electronics are pretty simple for it. In a 91 you already have a single piece RMS aluminum heads and the later electronics which have a bit more support for tuning. A turnkey 383 is pretty appealing from an 'ease' standpoint and would likely be less money than doing a full LS swap.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by VikingTrad3r View Post
most of your reply went over my head.Do you mean the geometry of the LS engine is different then the small block engine and the geometry in and of itself is a large horse power advantage due to increased airflow?
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...d-port-design/
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:14 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dclafleur View Post
I think it's a lot of different factors. The reason I weight an LSx over a traditional SBC is the number of things I'll probably replace even if I were to stick with a SBC.

I'd likely redo my ECM as an '85 is a bit of a pain to find a tuner.
I'd redo my harness because my harness is in rough shape as most early C4 harnesses are.
My current block is a 2 piece RMS and if I pull it I'd like to go with a later 1 piece which would require me to replace my flywheel anyways.
With both I'd end up redoing my exhaust including headers too.

At some point with all the changes that crop up the LS motor looks like a good opportunity. From a maintenance perspective, the LS motors are almost magical compared to a SBC. Pulling the intake manifold or valve covers are far lower drama than on an SBC. I can't say that it's "worth it" to anyone but there are a lot of potential upsides to an LS motor.
In my opinion, Removing an intake manifold and or valve covers on a SBC is cake.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:53 AM
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In a couple of post I add comments about my swap. I never started a swap post, but I add comments, in other posts. It took me two days, before I was able to move the car, on it's own power. But I research it for a year. Fired the engine up on the ground before, it went into the car, just to make sure it was like the seller said. And in another post, I said how I started with a stock LQ4. And no you don't need to pull the intake for a cam swap, but you must pull the intake for a head swap.

My best friend has a 72 454 convt. vette and he did a LS a year before I did. And it was a CF member (Cha0$) that documented a C4 LS swap. So I basically knew what to expect and needed. I been a working with cars as a hobby for 40 years, and modifying my 86 for 13 yrs. I brought the vette for the purpose of racing in the Corvette Challenge at Etown back in 2005. I really didn't care for a vette till that point. Now it's a passion. I plan on buying a C6 or C7, but I'll keep my C4

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Old 03-13-2018, 11:01 AM
  #46  
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The geometry of the head has very little to do with the power output. The article is misleading at best. If both heads flow the same amount of air at each lift point the power will be very similar provided the combustion chamber design is equal. New SBC combustion chamber designs are just as good as anything else on the market like the LS1. There is no magic just because the valve angle is 12 degrees. If that was the case the 12 degree valve angles of the oldsmobile engines produced from 1960's through 1980's would have been killers, instead they were junk from a power output standpoint. The heads flowed no air but they had a 12 degree valve angle.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dclafleur View Post
Honestly I think the earlier C4's are probably a better LS swap candidate because the electronics are pretty simple for it. In a 91 you already have a single piece RMS aluminum heads and the later electronics which have a bit more support for tuning. A turnkey 383 is pretty appealing from an 'ease' standpoint and would likely be less money than doing a full LS swap.
I agree with what you said. Only reasons I looked at a LS is that power increases are easier and you have more tuners available. For that, if the price of the install is reasonable at some point, I might consider it. I know tuning and a motor is going to be about the same cost so the fabrication and making everything talk is going to be the issue. I see less and less facilities tuning the LT and L98 cars so that is a factor. I'd like to keep my options open till the 383 L98 motor I have dies, at which point, I probably will be forced to either pony up and make the swap or junk it and start all again with an LS car.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:56 PM
  #48  
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I have around $4500 (canadian) into my LS swap and around 400HP at the crank. I thought that as far as swaps go this one was pretty easy. You should try to put a CR 6.7L cummins into a newer ford F350.

All of the sensors with the LS engine is pretty much just plug and play, way easier than the SBC ever was. The newer LS computer is way better than what you got stock C4. I have the ability now to just push a screen to adjust my ignition timing, rev limiter, cooling fans on/off temps, adjust my fuel maps, with the car running driving.

I have around 2000-3000 miles on my swap and everything is still working fine. Even the stock(original) C4 fuel pump is still working (at 62 PSI). The 700R is handling the power, yes I'm on borrowed time for pump/transmission.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
I have around $4500 (canadian) into my LS swap and around 400HP at the crank. I thought that as far as swaps go this one was pretty easy. You should try to put a CR 6.7L cummins into a newer ford F350.

All of the sensors with the LS engine is pretty much just plug and play, way easier than the SBC ever was. The newer LS computer is way better than what you got stock C4. I have the ability now to just push a screen to adjust my ignition timing, rev limiter, cooling fans on/off temps, adjust my fuel maps, with the car running driving.

I have around 2000-3000 miles on my swap and everything is still working fine. Even the stock(original) C4 fuel pump is still working (at 62 PSI). The 700R is handling the power, yes I'm on borrowed time for pump/transmission.
Are you using the factory LS computer? There's so much support for them and they're capable to some pretty gnarly configurations. It really is awesome.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:12 PM
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No I'm not using the stock GM 2005 LQ9 computer. I'm using the FAST EZ LS swap system on mine. I'm hoping at some point I will upgrade from the FAST system, I want to run some boost adder to my car at some point. and the fast system doesn't support boost adders. I found this out after purchasing it.

I agree the stock computer has lots different tuner options, lucky for any LS user.

Curious if your using MAF or speed density programming? Glad we can discuss LS tuning options.

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Old 03-13-2018, 07:15 PM
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Here is a picture of my car with the LQ9 installed. It does fit and does work.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
I agree the stock computer has lots different tuner options, lucky for any LS user.
Exactly why I am looking at it. Sooner or later my L98 will break so if it is economical enough, I will definitely do it. If not, I will get a later model car with the LS engine in it, preferably with higher miles (over 100K) and build up the worn out stuff the way I want.
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Exactly why I am looking at it. Sooner or later my L98 will break so if it is economical enough, I will definitely do it. If not, I will get a later model car with the LS engine in it, preferably with higher miles (over 100K) and build up the worn out stuff the way I want.
The 2010 C6 Z06 LS7 is one heck of a car. I want one, its my next dream car. Posts pics buddy of what you buy.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
Here is a picture of my car with the LQ9 installed. It does fit and does work.
Nice work and congratulations. Something you can brag about.

But I have to wonder how much more expensive - if any - would it be to upgrade to a stock LS powered corvette C5? The C5 cars look like they start around $10K and a very nice C5 is under $20K. Wouldn't that be a economical route also? Selling your C4 and upgrading to a C5?. Dealerships thrive on this. SeliSel and buying on your own could make it reasonable and much quicker.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:40 PM
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I picked up my C5 Z06 4 years ago for about 17k it was a little below market at the time. If the sole goal is to go faster for cheap a C5 is hard to beat out right now. If I build a pure track car it'd likely be on a C5 platform. My reasons for hot rodding a c4 are largely intangibles, which anyone pursuing a big project with a C4 should address.

What are their goals, what would they like the final car to be like and is it worth it to them? As a platform it's been superseded but it doesn't mean it can't be fun.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dclafleur View Post
I picked up my C5 Z06 4 years ago for about 17k it was a little below market at the time. If the sole goal is to go faster for cheap a C5 is hard to beat out right now. If I build a pure track car it'd likely be on a C5 platform. My reasons for hot rodding a c4 are largely intangibles, which anyone pursuing a big project with a C4 should address.

What are their goals, what would they like the final car to be like and is it worth it to them? As a platform it's been superseded but it doesn't mean it can't be fun.
The exterior of a C4 is better lookin' - imo - than a C5. Buying a C5Z is just buying a used sports car. Building your own car, well that is a hotrod. Hotrods are built not bought. That is how I look at it. Getting a solid 93 6spd Coupe for 2.5K from a Chevy dealer who was scared of the OptiSpark is what started me on this journey.

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Old 03-13-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaye Bass View Post
The exterior of a C4 is better lookin' - imo - than a C5. Buying a C5Z is just buying a used sports car. Building your own car, well that is a hotrod. Hotrods are built not bought. That is how I look at it. Getting a solid 93 6spd Coupe for 2.5K from a Chevy dealer who was scared of the OptiSpark is what started me on this journey.
You can build a C5, C6 or C7 just as you would a C4 or C3 The later platform is just easier to get better results on the later platform. Does that mean it isn't a hotrod?
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
You can build a C5, C6 or C7 just as you would a C4 or C3 The later platform is just easier to get better results on the later platform. Does that mean it isn't a hotrod?
The choice or question posed by the poster was comparing a new to him C5Z or building a C4. I answered that question with an opinion of mine. You are asking different questions, to which I have a general answer: Building your own car, well that is a hotrod. Hotrods are built not bought. So if you buy a C6 to base your build then you have a hotrod, etc.

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Old 03-14-2018, 01:14 AM
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Why iron block? For many of us it is the 4" bore of the 6.0 so we can use LS3 or L92 heads to make some serious power. Very little needed to crank out 500 hp on pump gas. LS3/L92 heads, mild cam, springs, and a good set of long tube headers. I know Gen 1 SBCs are very capable engines but making North of 500 hp (like those SBCs in the Engine Masters vids) without decent upgrades to the rotating assembly and valvetrain requires spending enormous amounts of cash on race fuel. That is something that just isn't feasible for guys like me cruising the streets for hours on end on the weekends.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaye Bass View Post
The choice or question posed by the poster was comparing a new to him C5Z or building a C4. I answered that question with an opinion of mine. You are asking different questions, to which I have a general answer: Building your own car, well that is a hotrod. Hotrods are built not bought. So if you buy a C6 to base your build then you have a hotrod, etc.
That is what I was trying to get at. To claim you have a "hotrod" you have to modify it. You can do it with both C4 or C5. Doesn't say that you have to take the hard way out and modify a C4 when you can get the lower hanging fruit from the newer models
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