When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
That post is more for my reference but the iron heads have a provision to help them warm up faster during winter time.
I know that I'm wasting my breath here, but your "belief" here is absolutely un true. Totally wrong. You've completely misunderstood the purpose of the exhaust crossover passage. It is not there to "help them warm up faster". Any "faster warming" that occured as a result of these provisions is meaningless and so small that it would be imperceptible. No, the the actual purpose of that passage is to heat the floor of a carbureted or TBI intake manifold -a wet flow intake that has fuel in suspension with the air traveling through it. You don't have a wet flow intake, you're not proposing a wet flow intake and therefore, those passages are meaningless and will go, unused. Those passages will in no way, alter/change/improve the rate at which your car warms up and provides cabin heat, in the winter. Your belief is totally misguided.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
Nope, but I trust the fact that a camshaft designed to move a 4500 pound car has to be of an advantage to a lighter 3200 pound car.
Well there you go, then. If that isn't well researched, then I don't know what is! FYI, The "b-body" cam is the same specs as the L31 Vortec cam that I recommended to you in another thread, that you rejected.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
The B-body LT1 cars had more restrictive exhaust systems which limited their full performance potential. Had the exhaust been upgraded they would have enjoyed similar power numbers to their higher performance F and Y body counterparts. So, I don't stand to lose much by swapping in a B-Body LT1 camshaft.
Nope. Just money and time.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
Yeah, and I don't believe a joker. I don't believe your numbers, I think they are deliberately bloated for joke purposes and for guys who build high performance cars I seriously doubt that you accurately record your every fill-up and average your fuel mileage like I do. It does help to indicate possible mechanical problems when your economy takes a crap all of a sudden, I must add.
Well....you can choose to ignore my real life experience with the very topic that you're seeking knowledge. You DID come on here looking for knowledge from experienced folks...did you not? I just gave you some, and I can assure you that it was solid, repeatable, accurate data. But...Stuff your head, firmly into the sand.
As Matthew Miller accurately stated;
Your insistence that we all are wrong is what makes you stupid
I have no use for top end power. The way I shift during hard acceleration I rev up to 5000 RPM. This is why I want my torque curve to be optimized for this specific band and this is why the TPI intake is such a good fit.
Me too, actually. Mine rarely sees the top side of 5500.
Just do an L98 W Vortec's, then. Or a stroker.
My (very humble) understanding of the LT1 is that its advantage IS on top. If you don't live there, and stoplight to stoplight is your thing? You may not want one.
Well there you go, then. If that isn't well researched, then I don't know what is! FYI, The "b-body" cam is the same specs as the L31 Vortec cam that I recommended to you in another thread, that you rejected. .
And what happened? I discovered that the L31 vortec camshaft was the B-Body LT1 camshaft, and that changed everything. Again, when you joke around with me I have a hard time trusting you. You didn't tell me the L31 vortec camshaft was a B-body LT1 camshaft, I had to figure that one out on my own. Now I am interested in it for this build, either that or something that is an improvement over it.
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
Nope. Just money and time.
Your opinion. I wouldn't trash anyone else's grandiose ideas to build their dream engine and dream car so why put down my idea? You could help me try to achieve what I am looking for without being snubbing about it.
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
Well....you can choose to ignore my real life experience with the very topic that you're seeking knowledge. You DID come on here looking for knowledge from experienced folks...did you not? I just gave you some, and I can assure you that it was solid, repeatable, accurate data. But...Stuff your head, firmly into the sand.
I don't think you get it when I question you and then research your comments afterwards...
Me too, actually. Mine rarely sees the top side of 5500.
Just do an L98 W Vortec's, then. Or a stroker.
My (very humble) understanding of the LT1 is that its advantage IS on top. If you don't live there, and stoplight to stoplight is your thing? You may not want one.
Well, could it be that the LT1 advantage is from the heads and intake? The L98 is a different beast but what happens when you put a large runner and extrude honed and polished TPI intake onto the LT1? The advantage should now shift down to where the L98 was most comfortable. This is what I am trying to achieve with my LT1. It may be sacrilege to most but for me it gives me a more fun driving experience that is geared for daily driving in year round conditions.
Well, could it be that the LT1 advantage is from the heads and intake? The L98 is a different beast but what happens when you put a large runner and extrude honed and polished TPI intake onto the LT1? The advantage should now shift down to where the L98 was most comfortable. This is what I am trying to achieve with my LT1. It may be sacrilege to most but for me it gives me a more fun driving experience that is geared for daily driving in year round conditions.
Well, the bottom of the engine is a big air pump.. Some of them are stronger than others, but that's basically what it does.
For all the complaining about the opti (And there is A LOT) everything I have read about it suggests it was a superior ignition for the time period.
But we have coil on cylinder now.. EFI Connections has kits. I've considered it several times when replacing and re-replacing, and RE-RE-REPLACING, my 85 PCM..
There's really no reason to spend a fortune on the LT1 that I can see if those are your objective. Put an L31 in it? Or an L98?
The B-body LT1 cars had more restrictive exhaust systems which limited their full performance potential. Had the exhaust been upgraded they would have enjoyed similar power numbers to their higher performance F and Y body counterparts.
I wonder where you came up with the gem? Did you make it up in your head -like you did "Iron heads warm up faster"? Or could you cite a source that has actually tested it? *I* can cite something; Super Chevy did a test on an Impala, then swapped the exhaust from the heads to the pail pipe and picked up only 10hp. Not exactly "similar power numbers to their higher performance F and Y body counterparts". Nope, the 191/196 duration cam is likely the most limiting factor in the B-Body.
Oh, by the way, in that same test, the B-body LT1 made 50 lb-ft less RWTQ than my stock '92 LT1 made. In an unrelated test, Hot Rod Mag tested a stock LT1 Impala and it did 35 less RWTQ than my '92. DOH!!
And what happened? I discovered that the L31 vortec camshaft was the B-Body LT1 camshaft, and that changed everything.
It changed nothing. I recommended a cam based on your cockamamie requirements....and the cam's specifications (and cost/availability). Not that it was a "B-body cam" or some toolish notion like that. The cam's specifications. Whatever you "discovered on your own" doesn't change the recommendation or the cam one whit.
NOW, ya want L31 Vortec head, because, you know, "truck/tow" motor and so several of us have recommended that you replace your sacked out LT1 with the entire L31 engine. You rejected that idea even though it has the "truck/tow" heads and "4500 lb B-body" cam. And BTW; The "b-body" is NOT 4500 lbs and the cam choice didn't help it; it's not fast/quick.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
You could help me try to achieve what I am looking for without being snubbing about it.
Yeah, man, I and many others have already tried that. Doesn't really work out for anyone.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
I don't think you get it when I question you and then research your comments afterwards...
GM did make it confusing with the LT1. All vin P and 3 different engines: the b body lt1 the f body and Corvette. They all use some different parts. It would be to easy to have lt1, 2,& 3. They all use the same intake so unless you match port intake to the cast heads you may not see the benefits of the increased air flow of the cast lt1 head.
Well, the bottom of the engine is a big air pump.. Some of them are stronger than others, but that's basically what it does.
For all the complaining about the opti (And there is A LOT) everything I have read about it suggests it was a superior ignition for the time period.
But we have coil on cylinder now.. EFI Connections has kits. I've considered it several times when replacing and re-replacing, and RE-RE-REPLACING, my 85 PCM..
There's really no reason to spend a fortune on the LT1 that I can see if those are your objective. Put an L31 in it? Or an L98?
Well, maybe on paper the Optispark was revolutionary but because GM wouldn't spend the money to have the damn thing waterproofed, well the reliability that was boasted about went out the door with real life use. I can't even trust Napa for a reman optispark, and I spent so much time painfully trying to waterproof one only to find out the damn sensor was fu..ed. I can't afford it now but I WILL have the ignition swapped over to the coil-on-plug system, and likely the one being offered on the third gen forum. Yes, I am on there too.
Now with regards to spending a "fortune" on my LT1, what is the difference between that and buying a new car that I won't be happy with driving and will absolutely hate the styling of it? When I get my car "overhauled", I will need to take out a loan to finance it, just like buying a new car!
Well, maybe on paper the Optispark was revolutionary but because GM wouldn't spend the money to have the damn thing waterproofed, well the reliability that was boasted about went out the door with real life use. I can't even trust Napa for a reman optispark, and I spent so much time painfully trying to waterproof one only to find out the damn sensor was fu..ed. I can't afford it now but I WILL have the ignition swapped over to the coil-on-plug system, and likely the one being offered on the third gen forum. Yes, I am on there too.
Now with regards to spending a "fortune" on my LT1, what is the difference between that and buying a new car that I won't be happy with driving and will absolutely hate the styling of it? When I get my car "overhauled", I will need to take out a loan to finance it, just like buying a new car!
My understanding is the opti was supposed to virtually eliminate spark scatter. They claim it succeeded.
And if there's one thing I do know about re-inventing the wheel.. It's usually expensive. Whenever I decide to do something like that, I always have to have the checkbook ready!
Gm stopped using these on the aluminum heads because they aren't needed for warm up... Whatever.
Aluminum heads don't need them, from what I understand. The iron heads do. I thought the LT1 cast iron cylinder heads and L31 Vortec heads have them. Again, despite the additional 40-50 pound penalty, it is cheaper for me to purchase rebuilt LT1 cast iron heads than to spend the money to mild port my current heads, fix the stripped bolt hole, and then have the combustion chamber coated to retain more heat for better combustion.
$250 got both my heads milled cleaned and 2 bolt holes fixed to the original size. The 2 bolts snapped off and had to be re threaded. I did the porting to my heads and added a set of LS6 beehive springs. So total after tools and their work l
under $400.
The exhaust crossover came from the carburetor era. Warming the base of the carb, heating the choke coil, and helped simplify adding egr. The L98 kept it for EGR. Times change and having the crossover was going to be a problem. Composite intakes were being developed and the heat from egr became an area of concern.
I told him ^that back in post 221. He don't listen or learn. I even started off by saying:
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
I know that I'm wasting my breath here,
...and I was.
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
Aluminum heads don't need them, from what I understand. The iron heads do.
It has nothing to do with the heads, man. See what happens when people try to give you good advice? Here, try reading this again. This time, READ IT:
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
You've completely misunderstood the purpose of the exhaust crossover passage. It is not there to "help them warm up faster". Any "faster warming" that occurred as a result of these provisions is meaningless and so small that it would be imperceptible. No, the the actual purpose of that passage is to heat the floor of a carbureted or TBI intake manifold -a wet flow intake that has fuel in suspension with the air traveling through it. You don't have a wet flow intake, you're not proposing a wet flow intake and therefore, those passages are meaningless and will go, unused. Those passages will in no way, alter/change/improve the rate at which your car warms up and provides cabin heat, in the winter.
It's not "for the heads". It's for the floor of the intake. Another guy is telling you the same thing....
Originally Posted by Kevova
The exhaust crossover came from the carburetor era. Warming the base of the carb, heating the choke coil, and helped simplify adding egr.
$250 got both my heads milled cleaned and 2 bolt holes fixed to the original size. The 2 bolts snapped off and had to be re threaded. I did the porting to my heads and added a set of LS6 beehive springs. So total after tools and their work l
under $400.
You did the porting yourself. I can't do my own porting. So your $400 quote goes up for me. For me, the cheaper cast iron heads make sense.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
Yeah, and I don't believe a joker. I don't believe your numbers, I think they are deliberately bloated for joke purposes and for guys who build high performance cars I seriously doubt that you accurately record your every fill-up and average your fuel mileage like I do. It does help to indicate possible mechanical problems when your economy takes a crap all of a sudden, I must add.
I don't know why you guys keep addressing this clueless, confused troll?
That he missed the heat riser issue is one good example he doesn't care to learn. Another is that he can't understand the comment about telling everyone why THEY are wrong...and concludes that SAME POST by saying why Tom was wrong!
Really? What more do you guys NEED to see this guy is a major waste of time...and a losing battle.
I've seen (even on this page of the thread) major points that are completely glossed over/skipped because he doesn't really care. He even said money DOESN'T MATTER to gain improvements -- then follows with why iron heads are better [than ported alum] because they are cheaper!
Really! What a two-faced, Duddly-Do-Right.
I know many -- if not all of you guys -- have seen prior posts and the endless rabbit-holes this guys leads us down. The fact that SO MANY OBVIOUS FACTS are ignored show me Phoenix isn't ready to learn. He may say enough things to tease you into thinking the "light is on", but I don't think anyone is really "at home".
People threaten to stop replying but don't. It seems like the best/only entertainment is to shovel "****" back at the source of it. And, yes, a good bit of that is happening (keeping some of this "fun). Too bad he's not smart enough to understand the source of his own problems.
Don't think I haven't tried to point it out either. I have.
But, if I stack two in each runner? That's like, +16 mpg!
Actually I already have two on my Trans Am! My current mechanic can vouch for it. I actually picked up 5 extra miles to the gallon so these things really work, just like Pep Boys promised!
Yep, some great advice on this forum. It is now official.
05-12-2018, 02:01 PM
