Anyone running a Centerforce dual friction clutch kit on their ZF6
05-07-2018, 08:46 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Anyone running a Centerforce dual friction clutch kit on their ZF6
Title says it. Feedback? Longevity? Satisfaction? Debating setup options. It would be mated to a billet steel 30# SMF. It's either this, a Carolina Clutch kit (I know the PP is a Valeo), or a regular Valeo pressure plate on a standard dampened disk complete kit. Mainly spirited street driving with occasional autocross duty.
Am I going overboard like Tim the Tool Man Taylor on the Centerforce setup?
Am I going overboard like Tim the Tool Man Taylor on the Centerforce setup?
05-08-2018, 11:11 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
In order of your questions, I run the Dual Friction disk in a NOS Valeo racing pressure plate (from the Escort World Challenge days). The disk is fine. I've been told by Jim Jandik (Power Torque Systems, a long time ZF6 clutch guru) that they are a cut above most other disks in uniformity of dimension and overall quality (I want to say RAM was the other?). But their pressure plates are another story. First, you have to understand that all new pull-type pressure plates for our cars are made-in-China mediocrity. It doesn't matter what name is on it - CF, SPEC, Carolina Clutch, or even Valeo - if it's newer than a few years old it's Chinese, and probably all from the same factory.
The thing that CF does differently is to add the little weights to create more clamping force with more rpm. It seems like it should be a good enough idea. However, a good friend of mine who worked as a professional tech in the service bays of a speed shop advised me that fully half of the dozens of CF pressure plates they installed came back with breakage. Typically, the weights came off and that caused havoc. So I would steer clear. Unless you can find an old made-in-US or made-in-Brazil NOS Valeo unit, then I'd say that the cheapest one you can find is as good as any other, as long as it doesn't have weights stuck on the fingers.
As for going overboard on the disk, it kind of depends on your drivetrain. If you are still at stock L98 power levels, you would be fine with a plain organic disk. In that case, the Caroline Clutch kit is probably priced pretty well and I have read positive remarks about their service and tech advice. My car with over 400rwhp that was tracked and autocrossed a ton went for years on such a disk. When it finally crapped out, I did opt for the CF dual friction disk and have no regrets. But the organic disk is nicer to drive on the street. It's less grabby and easier to modulate in traffic. If your car is stock or close to it, I'd go with that.
The thing that CF does differently is to add the little weights to create more clamping force with more rpm. It seems like it should be a good enough idea. However, a good friend of mine who worked as a professional tech in the service bays of a speed shop advised me that fully half of the dozens of CF pressure plates they installed came back with breakage. Typically, the weights came off and that caused havoc. So I would steer clear. Unless you can find an old made-in-US or made-in-Brazil NOS Valeo unit, then I'd say that the cheapest one you can find is as good as any other, as long as it doesn't have weights stuck on the fingers.
As for going overboard on the disk, it kind of depends on your drivetrain. If you are still at stock L98 power levels, you would be fine with a plain organic disk. In that case, the Caroline Clutch kit is probably priced pretty well and I have read positive remarks about their service and tech advice. My car with over 400rwhp that was tracked and autocrossed a ton went for years on such a disk. When it finally crapped out, I did opt for the CF dual friction disk and have no regrets. But the organic disk is nicer to drive on the street. It's less grabby and easier to modulate in traffic. If your car is stock or close to it, I'd go with that.
05-11-2018, 12:15 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
In order of your questions, I run the Dual Friction disk in a NOS Valeo racing pressure plate (from the Escort World Challenge days). The disk is fine. I've been told by Jim Jandik (Power Torque Systems, a long time ZF6 clutch guru) that they are a cut above most other disks in uniformity of dimension and overall quality (I want to say RAM was the other?). But their pressure plates are another story. First, you have to understand that all new pull-type pressure plates for our cars are made-in-China mediocrity. It doesn't matter what name is on it - CF, SPEC, Carolina Clutch, or even Valeo - if it's newer than a few years old it's Chinese, and probably all from the same factory.
The thing that CF does differently is to add the little weights to create more clamping force with more rpm. It seems like it should be a good enough idea. However, a good friend of mine who worked as a professional tech in the service bays of a speed shop advised me that fully half of the dozens of CF pressure plates they installed came back with breakage. Typically, the weights came off and that caused havoc. So I would steer clear. Unless you can find an old made-in-US or made-in-Brazil NOS Valeo unit, then I'd say that the cheapest one you can find is as good as any other, as long as it doesn't have weights stuck on the fingers.
As for going overboard on the disk, it kind of depends on your drivetrain. If you are still at stock L98 power levels, you would be fine with a plain organic disk. In that case, the Caroline Clutch kit is probably priced pretty well and I have read positive remarks about their service and tech advice. My car with over 400rwhp that was tracked and autocrossed a ton went for years on such a disk. When it finally crapped out, I did opt for the CF dual friction disk and have no regrets. But the organic disk is nicer to drive on the street. It's less grabby and easier to modulate in traffic. If your car is stock or close to it, I'd go with that.
The thing that CF does differently is to add the little weights to create more clamping force with more rpm. It seems like it should be a good enough idea. However, a good friend of mine who worked as a professional tech in the service bays of a speed shop advised me that fully half of the dozens of CF pressure plates they installed came back with breakage. Typically, the weights came off and that caused havoc. So I would steer clear. Unless you can find an old made-in-US or made-in-Brazil NOS Valeo unit, then I'd say that the cheapest one you can find is as good as any other, as long as it doesn't have weights stuck on the fingers.
As for going overboard on the disk, it kind of depends on your drivetrain. If you are still at stock L98 power levels, you would be fine with a plain organic disk. In that case, the Caroline Clutch kit is probably priced pretty well and I have read positive remarks about their service and tech advice. My car with over 400rwhp that was tracked and autocrossed a ton went for years on such a disk. When it finally crapped out, I did opt for the CF dual friction disk and have no regrets. But the organic disk is nicer to drive on the street. It's less grabby and easier to modulate in traffic. If your car is stock or close to it, I'd go with that.
After being sent a bunch of wrong parts, I got everything returned and decided to go with the Ecklers complete DMF to SMF kit; weekend sale made it absurdly economical. 42# flywheel, 11 inch organic clutch, Valeo PP, TOB and Pilot bearing. It will be the most stock setup for now. When I pull the motor next year and do my build, i'll consider that nice Ram setup with the billet aluminum flywheel. For now, smooth revs and great daily driving feel. Doesn't really seem like too many people here on the forum have tried the complete kit. Everything will be in by end of next week, so i'll take one for the team and report back
05-11-2018, 08:06 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
After being sent a bunch of wrong parts, I got everything returned and decided to go with the Ecklers complete DMF to SMF kit; weekend sale made it absurdly economical. 42# flywheel, 11 inch organic clutch, Valeo PP, TOB and Pilot bearing. It will be the most stock setup for now. When I pull the motor next year and do my build, i'll consider that nice Ram setup with the billet aluminum flywheel. For now, smooth revs and great daily driving feel. Doesn't really seem like too many people here on the forum have tried the complete kit. Everything will be in by end of next week, so i'll take one for the team and report back
05-12-2018, 03:53 PM
#5
I had the centerforce clutch, dual friction (older one) on my 90 for about 2 years. Built engine with the usual mods around here.
I used the dual mass. I tried the turned down Camaro flywheel, and the rattle was not even reasonable.
Never had any issues with it.
I have no idea if anything happened with the issue with the weights. Heard the same stuff around here for years. Someone told me to cut them off. I would if they broke off.
Doing research on the sledgehammer, it seems it may have some relation to this centerforce. Bill hays dual friction.
https://www.lingenfelter.com/Sledgeh...ff%20Smith.pdf
Scroll down to Page 3.
Mine does not have those springs in the clutch disk, I have no idea why they are there since that car is not a 6 speed, at least not at that time.
I had the clutch come apart on my Z06, it put holes in the bell housing. Nothing happened like that on the 90.
I used the dual mass. I tried the turned down Camaro flywheel, and the rattle was not even reasonable.
Never had any issues with it.
I have no idea if anything happened with the issue with the weights. Heard the same stuff around here for years. Someone told me to cut them off. I would if they broke off.
Doing research on the sledgehammer, it seems it may have some relation to this centerforce. Bill hays dual friction.
https://www.lingenfelter.com/Sledgeh...ff%20Smith.pdf
Scroll down to Page 3.
Mine does not have those springs in the clutch disk, I have no idea why they are there since that car is not a 6 speed, at least not at that time.
I had the clutch come apart on my Z06, it put holes in the bell housing. Nothing happened like that on the 90.
05-13-2018, 07:11 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
I had the centerforce clutch, dual friction (older one) on my 90 for about 2 years. Built engine with the usual mods around here.
I used the dual mass. I tried the turned down Camaro flywheel, and the rattle was not even reasonable.
Never had any issues with it.
I have no idea if anything happened with the issue with the weights. Heard the same stuff around here for years. Someone told me to cut them off. I would if they broke off.
Doing research on the sledgehammer, it seems it may have some relation to this centerforce. Bill hays dual friction.
https://www.lingenfelter.com/Sledgeh...ff%20Smith.pdf
Scroll down to Page 3.
Mine does not have those springs in the clutch disk, I have no idea why they are there since that car is not a 6 speed, at least not at that time.
I had the clutch come apart on my Z06, it put holes in the bell housing. Nothing happened like that on the 90.
I used the dual mass. I tried the turned down Camaro flywheel, and the rattle was not even reasonable.
Never had any issues with it.
I have no idea if anything happened with the issue with the weights. Heard the same stuff around here for years. Someone told me to cut them off. I would if they broke off.
Doing research on the sledgehammer, it seems it may have some relation to this centerforce. Bill hays dual friction.
https://www.lingenfelter.com/Sledgeh...ff%20Smith.pdf
Scroll down to Page 3.
Mine does not have those springs in the clutch disk, I have no idea why they are there since that car is not a 6 speed, at least not at that time.
I had the clutch come apart on my Z06, it put holes in the bell housing. Nothing happened like that on the 90.
05-15-2018, 05:28 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Sort of interesting turn of events. Turns out the FW that came with it was 23# not 42#. Kinda excited actually. It's at the shop now and hopefully out by Friday. Just didn't have the time to do this one myself :/
05-15-2018, 10:46 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
That's sort of a "tweener" weight. You'll definitely get some noise in neutral, but you'll also get a noticeable increase in 1st-gear acceleration. With an organic disk it shouldn't be too hard to modulate on the street. For reference, I believe at stock SN95 Mustang GT flywheel was around 25lbs.
05-17-2018, 08:47 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
That's sort of a "tweener" weight. You'll definitely get some noise in neutral, but you'll also get a noticeable increase in 1st-gear acceleration. With an organic disk it shouldn't be too hard to modulate on the street. For reference, I believe at stock SN95 Mustang GT flywheel was around 25lbs.
05-18-2018, 12:11 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Glad it's worked out so well for you!
05-18-2018, 12:56 AM
#11
Instructor
Title says it. Feedback? Longevity? Satisfaction? Debating setup options. It would be mated to a billet steel 30# SMF. It's either this, a Carolina Clutch kit (I know the PP is a Valeo), or a regular Valeo pressure plate on a standard dampened disk complete kit. Mainly spirited street driving with occasional autocross duty.
Am I going overboard like Tim the Tool Man Taylor on the Centerforce setup?
Am I going overboard like Tim the Tool Man Taylor on the Centerforce setup?
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JasBass (05-23-2018)
